Re: [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?
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Re: [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?



To amplify upon what Ron said, Carl Kiekaeffer was able to get a D501 race
car built, in a Coronet hardtop body, on top of a convertible frame, on the
regular production line.

He liked competitive edges, and all he had to do, to get that car built, was
to ask.... (the right people) for it.

Neil Vedder



Ron Swartley wrote:
*Roger, Roger, Roger,*
** * You could not be more wrong then saying _ANYTHING CAN'T HAPPEN ON THE CHRYSLER ASSEMBLY LINE._ I am an extremist that started collection Chrysler Corporation cars in 1956. It was a different time back then things move much much slower. The assembly line supervisor could program anything into the assembly line that he could access from Chrysler Corperation. _Now I am not saying this was common, practice offered to the public ,_ but if an high ranking executive want a (---example----) a 1956 Dodge HARDTOP with the D-500-1 engine in it and _Dodge did not offer that engine in a Hardtop_, and he wanted it** right off the assembly line......well..... he just had the super visor of the assembly line program that optional D-500-1 race engine into a black HARDTOP even though it was not available in a hardtop but only in a 2 Dr Sedan or convertible. The executives could get most any combination they wanted if they had a high position in the company. The whole world has corruption and change for the better and the worse mixed in almost everything that has ever been done by man. Please do not believe that the Chrysler Assembly Line was the only thing that ran perfectly and had no exceptions to the standard rules of assembly. A close friend of mine ordered a 59 Plymouth and said he would like to have the blue design Dodge seats in it. The Plymouth dealer had a very big dealership and had a lot of pull with the company. He got exactly what my friend wanted and charged him $31 dollar more. The Chrysler 300 F was advertised with a 4 speed french gearbox. However you could not order one unless you were a full time racer, ( like Norm Thatcher, Andy Grantelli, etc) They only made approximately 15 of them. A lot of the experimental cars were started because of upper management ideas of what would really appeal to the times that they were produced in. Ramchargers built some wild stuff in very limited production. I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea.* *After more then 54 years of buying, selling and racing Mopar's, I get a great laugh when someone says "Chrysler would never do that". LOL* ** *Ron Allyn Swartley* ** *PS. When I mention PROGRAM. I use that world for lack of a better word such as planned or scheduled--computer were not common back then.* ** In a message dated 11/8/2010 1:10:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx writes:

NO! Anything was NOT possible on the Chrysler assembly line !!! They were in the business of making cars to sell, and the line was
    to keep going except for emergencies.  Cars with minor defects
    were corrected off the end of the line.  So does anyone really
    think that the assembly guys ran over to the Dodge plant, got a
    front clip and all the trimmings, carried it back to the Plymouth
    plant or Chrysler plant, got it in sequence and put it on a
    production car?  Just to make a one-off?
Canadian cars, such as Dodge Kingsways, are a different matter, as
    they were assembled in Canada.  Export models such as DeSoto
    Diplomat were sequenced for their peculiar mix of parts.
Do you know how few bolts hold on the front clip on these cars? It's a pretty simple matter for a hobbyist to change clips and
    have a one-of-none car.
Why put a '59 Dodge clip on a 300D? Dunno. It's buttugly. But
    it's may be do-able, and the front medallion could be crafted by
    anyone.  There's still the wheelbase issue, unless maybe the body
and frame started life as a '58 Windsor with 122" wheelbase. Working the other way, let's suppose some guy started with a '58
    Windsor and wanted to clone a 300.  He couldn't use a 300C-D-E
    front clip, so he'd have to find something else that would fit a
    122" wheelbase, like a '59 Dodge.  Makes as much or more sense
    than somebody cobbling up a real 300.
Perhaps there were some products like this out of the special or
    experimental shops at Chrysler, we may still have some list
    members who worked there then, BUT I'd discourage this line of
    thinking in favor of the considerable likelihood that some
    restorer did this in his backyard.  The reason I say this is that
    it denegrates Chrysler Corp. to make it sound like they just threw
    stuff together.  They weren't anal-retentive about documenting
    things like some car makers, but that was probably because their
    main interest was getting them out the door and on their way to
    dealers.
--Roger van Hoy
        ----- Original Message -----
        *From:* Karl Peterson <mailto:tuffshift@xxxxxxxxx>
        *To:* L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        *Sent:* Monday, November 08, 2010 8:18 AM
        *Subject:* Re: [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?

        Apologize for my initial overreaction.  Regarding the
        pics....while I suppose "anything" is possible on a Chrysler
        assembly line, especially with export models, I myself cannot
        fathom why a restorer would go to all the time, trouble,
        expense and effort to restore a "wrecked" 300 letter car only
        to undermine their own reconstruction by putting a Dodge front
        clip on it.


        BTW, did you happen to notice that is does distinctly say
        "300" on the lower part of the hood ornament?


        In any event...best to just let this one rest and simply move on.


        --- On *Mon, 11/8/10, Jim Rawa /<jrawa@xxxxxxx>/* wrote:


            From: Jim Rawa <jrawa@xxxxxxx>
            Subject: Re: [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?
            To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
            Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 12:24 PM


            corrections... noticed as hitting send...
            [tuffshift]
            pictures
            and should have said chassis/platform regarding the H to
            avoid any corrections since 60-up are unitized body
            construction-


            -----Original Message-----
            From: Jim Rawa <jrawa@xxxxxxx>
            To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
            Sent: Mon, Nov 8, 2010 7:17 am
            Subject: Re: [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?

            hmmmm... that wasnt a personal attack on you [tuffshit]...
            but more of an education for those out there who believe
            "the story"- i've only owned 75 or more 57-9 mopars
            covering almost every model made- except a 59 windsor- why
            i made the comment of not sure- that right there would be
            a 58 windsor [not 57 - telltale =windshield] with a 59
            dodge nose and "Letter" trim....  a 59 is a completely
            different car, fins etc..
            picuteres are nice... but you're more than welcome to come
            and visit, see all 3 chassis [118,122, and 126"] with and
            without bodies, and i will give an in-person demonstration
            of how a dodge nose WILL NOT be an interchangeable item on
            a full size chrysler.
            letter cars did not downsize until '62 to 122" when the H
            was built on the newport/dodge880 chassis.




            -----Original Message-----
            From: Karl Peterson <tuffshift@xxxxxxxxx
            <mip://0383b480/mc/compose?to=tuffshift@xxxxxxxxx>>
            To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
            <mip://0383b480/mc/compose?to=L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
            Sent: Sun, Nov 7, 2010 10:21 pm
            Subject: Re: [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?

            /*"so the "story" of a 300E with a dodge nose didnt
            happen, unless of course they also swapped the chassis-
            since im not sure if the windsor in 59 was a 122" wb like
            57/8 windsors..."*/

            The "STORY", ya say?  Like what are alluding?....that I
            just made that up?   Here, for your edification:
            http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v115/nitekatt/Odds%20n%20Ends/?action=view&current=WPC2010_055.jpg
            <http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v115/nitekatt/Odds%20n%20Ends/?action=view&current=WPC2010_055.jpg>

            http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v115/nitekatt/Odds%20n%20Ends/?action=view&current=WPC2010_054.jpg
            <http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v115/nitekatt/Odds%20n%20Ends/?action=view&current=WPC2010_054.jpg>

            Sure looks like 1959 300E with a 1959 Dodge front clip on
            it to me.  What say you now about my "story"?

            --- On *Sun, 11/7/10, Jim Rawa /<jrawa@xxxxxxx
            <mip://0383b480/mc/compose?to=jrawa@xxxxxxx>>/* wrote:


                From: Jim Rawa <jrawa@xxxxxxx
                <mip://0383b480/mc/compose?to=jrawa@xxxxxxx>>
                Subject: Re: [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?
                To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                <mip://0383b480/mc/compose?to=L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 1:50 PM

                all that is is a 58 savoy that needed a nose after a
                possible accident and a 59 dodge nose was available...
                all 118/122" wb noses interchange- that means all
                plymouths, dodges, and desoto firesweep and chrysler
                windsor.
                the firedome and full size chryslers are 126wb and the
                fenders are longer-   so the "story" of a 300E with a
                dodge nose didnt happen, unless of course they also
                swapped the chassis- since im not sure if the windsor
                in 59 was a 122" wb like 57/8 windsors...



                -----Original Message-----
                From: Jan & Roger van Hoy <vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx
                <mip://0383b480/mc/compose?to=vanhilla@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>
                To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                <mip://0383b480/mc/compose?to=L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                Sent: Sat, Nov 6, 2010 9:30 pm
                Subject: Re: [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?

                Some of these weird combinations are the offspring of
                some freaky creative types, not factory issued.  A
                while back there was a "factory" '61 "Mexican"
                Plymouth with a Dodge front clip that was debunked by
                some of our list members as a recent creation.  It
                helps that the front doors were basically the same on
                many different models.  GM copied that idea in '59.
--Roger van Hoy
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    *From:* Karl Peterson
                    *To:* L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                    *Sent:* Saturday, November 06, 2010 4:51 PM
                    *Subject:* Re: [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?

                    You think that's weird....I saw a pic of a 59
                    Chrysler 300E with a 59 Dodge front clip on it.
                     Ma Chrysler had some really odd "Frankensteins"
                    during the days of the FWDLK era.

                    --- On *Sat, 11/6/10, Daniel Andersson
                    /<danne.mobil@xxxxxxxxx>/* wrote:


                        From: Daniel Andersson <danne.mobil@xxxxxxxxx>
                        Subject: Re: [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?
                        To: L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                        Date: Saturday, November 6, 2010, 11:51 AM

                        Sine the owner says that the VIN is incorrect
                        _this_ car isn't real but there was Plymouths
                        built with Dodge front clip.
In Sweden in the 50s (aswell as in Canada) the
                        was Plymouths with DeSoto front = DeSoto
                        Diplomat and there was Plymouths with Dodge
                        front = Dodge Kingsway. The Kingsway had the
                        Plymouth dash but with the letters "D O D G E"
                        in the aluminium around the speedo instead of
                        "P L Y M O U T H". Here is a few cars left
                        here in Sweden mostly 4 door sedan sine most
                        of them where used as taxis when they where
                        new. If you searh for the "Kingsway" I think
                        you can find the information
Daniel Andersson Sweden
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            *From:* Adam Lindenbaum
                            *To:* L-FORWARDLOOK@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                            *Sent:* Saturday, November 06, 2010 12:06 AM
                            *Subject:* [FWDLK] OK, WTF is this?

                            I know Chrysler did the Plodge thing
                            in Canada, but a 59 Dodge nose on a '58
                            Plymouth body, this isn't real is it?
                            Plymouth : unknown: eBay Motors (item
                            280585134551 end time Nov-12-10 08:49:50
                            PST)
                            <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Plymouth-unknown-2-dr-hardtop-RARE-1958-DODGE-PLYMOUTH-HARDTOP-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem41542d61d7QQitemZ280585134551QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks>

Adam Lindenbaum
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