Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam
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Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam



Well, let's see....

I've owned and weekly driven my car since 1981 (only olde
car owned).

It is still 'on' its same oil pump, since before-then.

The engine was rebuilt (40-over) around 1990-something.

Car has about 80,000 miles on it, now, on its OEM oil filter system,
too.

The oil pressure has never wavered, at a very-good level ( I can send
a pic if anyone cares to see its reading) since 1981.

Since at least 2007, while using Valvoline 20/50 Racing, drove 3,000 miles to/from
Tulsa in Southwestern-June-heat

Change the oil and filter twice a year, and drive about 2,500 miles per year.

No dry-bearings clatter, ever, even in winter after a week's sitting.

So, Dave would say that if/when my oil pump ever fails, it's because of
the 20/50 oil being used in it.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc, fallacy, in that regard: (the hypochondriac's epitaph:
"I told you I was sick", or: "I told you the oil pump would fail").

The Boogieman's gonna getcha...and the EPA, too.

Neil Vedder



On 8/3/2014 10:23 PM, Dave Homstad wrote:
In my opinion,

1. Racing oil is fine for racing, where it gets changed every 500 miles or so. But it typically does not have the additive package for daily street driving, where blowby, moisture, and other contaminants need to be controlled and dispursed for 2000 miles, or more.

2. Heavy oil like a 20W-50 is too thick for most engines.
A. Oil that heavy can put a lot of extra strain on the oil pump shaft and cam gear, leading to possible failure.
B. Thicker oil will flow less volume, reducing the heat removal from the bearings.
C. Thicker oil will also be harder to push through an oil filter, the pressure drop may even allow the oil bypass to open and allow dirty unfiltered oil to the bearings.
D. Thicker oil will be even slower reaching bearings and cams at start up, especially after sitting for a long period and the surfaces are dry.
E. I might consider 20W-50 only if the engine was built with larger bearing clearances (for more oil flow), and if the environment is often over 90 degrees F, and the engine is running at higher than normal temperatures. It is specified for my air-cooled motorcycle engine.

3. Minimum oil thickness I recommend for our older cars is 10W-30. Anything thinner than 10W may squish out of the bearing and allow metal-to-metal contact. I typically use 10W-30 in the winter in my driver and 10W-40 for summer. Zero and 5W oils are designed for modern motors with very tight bearing clearances and pushing oil drag friction to low limits to improve gas MPG.

4. Roller lifters and roller cam followers in most every engine built in the last 20 years do not require a lot of ZDDP. Some ZDDP escapes past rings with the oil and can reduce the effectiveness of catalytic converters to only 100,000 miles. So the EPA mandated lower ZDDP levels so converters will last 150,000 miles. They also benefit by killing off any older driver cars with flat tappet cams prematurely.

5. I have been using a product called ZDDP Plus. A small can will boost the ZDDP level to the old normal levels in a 5 quart oil change.

Dave Homstad
56 Dodge D500


On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Neil Vedder wrote:

 Valvoline 20/50 Racing; lots of ZDDP, for me.

And, even, Hemmings has gotten into the act, by selling synthetic
(which is really over-kill, IMHO) ZDDP-loaded motor oil.

Whether ZDDP is needed or not, in a lightly-used engine (like all of     ours
are)....it is 'cheap' insurance and can not hurt anything, but our
pocketbooks---check Hemmings' 6-pack pricing (photo attachment).

Neil Vedder




On 8/3/2014 4:24 PM, Richard Whelan       wrote:

We use Brad Penn, made in the old           Kendall refinery in Bradford PA. Similar to Kendall GT-1 with           plenty of ZDDP. Dick


Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam

Another approach is to use Valvoline VR-1 racing oil; it             has more ZDDP. 
 
However, a friend showed me an article in the Packard             Pelican or whatever it is that says VR-1 doesn’t have enough             detergent.  I suspect it’s still more than oil 50 years ago.
 
--Roger van Hoy
 
From: Jim
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam
 
I've found two easy ways to get the ZDDP back in the                 oil. One is to buy the Redline Break-In Additive and use                 about 3 oz of it with each oil change.  The other, even                 easier, is to buy a can of STP, which has the right                 amount of ZDDP in it, when you buy the oil and filter                 and put the STP in along with the new oil.  The                 advantage of the Redline is that it's actually a little                 cheaper per dose and is easy to poor.  The STP is thick                 and hard to pour.  But the STP is available anywhere so                 it's pretty convenient.
 
___________________________________

From: Bill Parker <hemirr@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 3, 2014 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [FWDLK] RB 383 cam
 
Thanks for the input guys.  I                             agree about the oil.  I've driven the car a                             total of about 10 miles since buying it from                             another list member who also didn't drive it                             during his ownership I believe.  There is a                             receipt from a commercial garage showing a                             ring and bearing job, but the receipt has no                             date on it.  The inside of the engine is                             very clean and the oil isn't bad either so                             since that minor overhaul it must have been                             reasonably maintained, but of course with                             low ZDDP oil like we are all stuck with in                             the mainstream oils.  I'm thinking of using                             rotella once I'm back up and running since I                             don't have a converter to get clogged up                             with zinc. 
 
Bill & Kathi Parker, South Central                               Indiana, harboring of bunch of old and                               newer Mopars


On                               Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Neil Vedder < esierraadj@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Oh, that must be absolutely true,                                   because nobody in the old car
hobby knows about the effects of NOT                                   having ZDDP in flat tappet
car engines.

And, of course, the ruined cam shafts                                   render the car and its engine                                   completely
unrepairable and worthless.

The car mechanics, in particular, hate                                   the effects of having to work on these
damaged engines.

Neil Vedder



On 8/3/2014 12:05 AM, Dave                                     Homstad wrote:
Bill,

You                                         might give some thought as to WHY the cam has developed 3 bad                                         lobes.
Here                                         is a good article about how "OIL                                         IS KILLING OUR CARS!!!!!".

Personnally,                                         I think this is a plot by the                                         EPA to get old cars off the                                         roads quicker, by removing the                                         ZDDP from our oils. 

Dave                                         Homstad
56                                         Dodge D500


On                                         Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 6:43 PM,                                         Bill Parker wrote:

  Hello all, I tore                                           into the '60 Saratoga engine                                           today, an RB 383, and as I                                           suspected from the symptoms,                                           it has a wiped camshaft.  One                                           lobe is just a little nubbin',                                           and two others are clearly                                           half what they should be.                                            Seems like a simple cam swap                                           is in order except of course                                           for the small matter of early                                           B/RB lifters and pushrods                                           being different dimensions                                           from the later ('66 and                                           later?) stuff.  From a                                           previous experience with                                           putting a cam and lifter kit                                           into a '65 engine, I think I                                           recall that the late lifters                                           are taller, and must use the                                           late pushrods to compensate.                                            I could have it backwards, but                                           in any case, I think the                                           solution to using a late cam                                           and lifter kit is using the                                           late pushrods too.  I have                                           several core 440 engines and                                           I'm thinking, make a cam                                           selection, buy the late style                                           lifters with it, and use a set                                           of the 440 pushrods (being                                           that both my '60 383 and the                                           440's are RB engines with the                                           same deck height).                                            Comments/cautions/suggestions?                                            This is not my hot rod and I                                           plan to go with a pretty mild                                           cam.
Bill & Kathi                                         Parker, South Central Indiana,                                         harboring of bunch of old and                                         newer Mopars

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