Re: [Chrysler300] 300F Tire questions - again!
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Re: [Chrysler300] 300F Tire questions - again!
- From: "Gary Barker" <gbarker@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:19:48 -0700
Another Item that can cause wheel failure is Inner Granular Corrosion. also know as rust. I was cleaning up a old wheel that a friend gave me. It had laid in his pasture for who knows how long. First I wire brushed it but that would not clean up the rust. Next I Sandblasted the Rusted area. When I saw how deep the rust had gone and it was in the Rivet area I rendered the wheel Un usable and unsafe. It might have worked on the rear, But on the front with all the forces applied to a wheel during low and high speed turns I know the wheel would eventually come apart. I didn't here about Larry's wheel failure. I would like to have seen it to examine it.
Gary Barker
From: Anthony Rinaldi
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:45 PM
To: rpjasin@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 300F Tire questions - again!
Hi Bob
I thought this discussion was regarding 300-F 14" wheels?
Larry Jett's "F" had a wheel failure and luckily the car and he were not hurt.
You have the same size and weight car with your "G" but the wheels and tires are larger which changes the physics. Also you have essentially police wheels while "F" wheels were from station wagons.
I am on vacation but when I return home I will attach the text from the accident investigator and tire expert who cautioned against using radials on old bias ply wheels.
Jealous of your 15" police wheels regards,
Tony
Bob Jasinski wrote:
> Tony,
>
> With all due respect, your opinion on running radials on older
> cars with original wheels is not universally held. In fact I just did
> online research looking at several sites including Coker, the Imperial Club,
> Wikipedia and others and am not finding adequate reason to worry about running
> radials on my 300G, as I have for 24 years with no problem. Yes, metal can
> fatigue and wheels can fail, but they can fail with bias ply tires too.
> Wheels and suspension components need to be inspected and repaired
> as needed as part of normal maintenance on our old cars to keep them safe
> regardless of the type of tire used.
>
> The first 5 years I drove my 300G I had bias ply tires on the
> car. When I changed to radials in 1985, I could not believe the
> difference in handling. The road feel was much better, the control through
> turns, getting on and off the freeway without the tire following the separations
> in the concrete in the road surface was very noticeable. When you say,
> they will "flex too much at high speeds" what is causing the flex? I can
> see that they may flex more in a hard turn, but why at high speeds going down
> the freeway? What would cause them to flex?
>
> The original 15" wheels used on the 300G were also used on trucks,
> police cars and station wagons, all meant for heavy duty applications. I
> don't race my car, I pleasure cruise with it and push it when I get on or off
> the freeway, that's about it. I really don't see the problem as severe as
> you make it out to be, but I will acknowledge that our cars are all getting
> older, and replacing the wheels with a newer build is a prudent course of action
> to enhance safety.
>
> Bob J
> From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Anthony
> Rinaldi Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 5:38 AM To:
> edward1108@xxxxxxxxx Cc: cpaviper@xxxxxxxxxxx;
> ryan_hillc300@xxxxxxxxxxx; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE:
> [Chrysler300] 300F Tire questions - again!
>
> These wheels were built for bias ply tires. Once radials are put on them they
> will flex too much at high speeds. Of course age and usage make the condition
> worse. Tony Val Jeffers wrote: > > So you
> don't ever want to mount new radials on the old wheels ? >
> >
>
> Val Jeffers >
>
> In Almost Heaven WV ! > --- On Tue, 8/11/09, Ryan Hill <
> ryan_hillc300@ hotmail.com > wrote: > From: Ryan Hill <
> ryan_hillc300@ hotmail.com > > Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 300F Tire
> questions - again! > To: awrdoc@yahoo. com , cpaviper@comcast. net
> > Cc: "Chrysler 300" < chrysler300@ yahoogroups. com > >
> Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 1:35 PM > > Just a quick
> observation regarding the failure of original steel wheels with or without
> radials. > It seems to me that these failures have far more to do with
> fatigue and usage than age or design themselves. I would bet a high milage 50
> year old set of wheels that have been exposed to high temperatures, flexing
> (fatigue), and no doubt some degree of corrosion over the course of a half
> century are more likely to fail than the same wheel that has low or no milage,
> regardless of the tire mounted on it. I'd be looking to build sets from all
> those spare tire rims that have barely been used. > Ryan Hill (Vancouver,
> B.C.) > '65 Chrysler 300 > '68 Dodge Charger > To:
> cpaviper@comcast. net > CC: Chrysler300@ yahoogroups. com > From:
> awrdoc@yahoo. com > Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:23:43 -0700 >
> Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] 300F Tire questions - again! > Sorry,
> regarding the wheels themselves the original wheels flex too much for radial
> tires and are an accident waiting to happen. With all due respect to those who
> empirically swear that they have been running new radialds on old wheels for
> many a year I am happy that they are still on this planet and have not been
> involved in a catastrophic failure of an original wheel at high speeds. They
> should be playing the lottery with such good luck. > We are lucky that
> Stockton Wheels can make a modern replacement wheel that looks OEM for our
> 14" wheels. > cpaviper@comcast. net wrote: >>
> >> After reading the Club emails over the past few years discussing
> tires - I'm still trying to zero in on what to buy for our F Coupe. >>
> Re Coker, I'm still hearing issues - just about every Coker-related message
> talks to problems with balancing, and that they've hopefullly resolved their
> structural integrity issues. Re American Classics, their website gives no info -
> just refers to Coker, Universal, Lucas as distributors. Comparing the Coker and
> American Classic P235/75R14s, the load capacities, tread widths, section widths
> and overall diameters are identical - only Co ker catalog's UTQG (Uniform Tire
> Quality Grade) ratings differ between the 2 "brands " (American Classic's 540BB
> rating is apparently better than Coker's 400BB rating) and the Coker tire price
> is a few bucks more. Sounds like we're still unclear whether American Classic
> and Co ker are one and the same tire - the tread patterns in the catalog photos
> appear identical. >> I called Diamond Back this morning and spoke with
> one of their sales reps, Jim. He advised that there's no current maker of a
> quality P235/75R14 tire today - could be a dig against Coker? He did say that
> they're working on a 75 series 14" radial that will approximate the tire size
> we're all looking for. They just received their first test version of it, are
> were not at all pleased - he estimates that any such tire won't be ready to
> market until next summer [2010] or later. >> He did offer up the
> following suggestion, and I'm wondering if any of you have tried this. Diamond
> Back sells a European Metric tire that's also used on vans and light trucks, and
> that he says works very well in automotive applications. He says handling and
> road noise are very good. The tire's height is 27.3", vs Coker's 27.87"; tread
> width of 6.3" is the same as Coker's; cross-section of 8.5" is 3/4" narrower
> than Coker's 9.25"; it's a 6-ply tire rated at 2464# vs Coker's 1930#, is
> manufactured by Federal, and it replaces 225/75R14 - is described on Page 6 of
> their 2009 catalog. The tire does come in a 2 1/2" wide whitewalls. >>
> Is anyone out there running these tires? Or had any experience with them?
> >> And there's also the continuing debate re installing new rims.
> Diamond Back's website quotes the 12/6/07 Old Cars Weekly article that we saw on
> our Club website a few months back, and says the claim is bogus, that there's no
> alloy difference, and no markings on rims to indicate use with bias or radial
> tires. DB's argument in fact states that radials absorb more impact and are
> therefore less stressful on rims than are bias ply tires. Any new thoughts on
> this, as we're still running the original 1960 rims on the F? >> Th
> anks for your input, and apologies for again bringing up an old topic !
> >> Noel Hastalis >> Burr Ridge, IL >> And there's
> also the continuing debate re installing new rims. Diamond Back's website quotes
> the 12/6/07 Old Cars Weekly article that we saw on our Club website a few months
> back, and says the claim is bogus, that there's no alloy difference, and no
> markings on rims to indicate use with bias or radial tires. DB's argument in
> fact states that radials absorb more impact and are therefore less stressful on
> rims than are bias ply tires. Any new thoughts on this, as we're still running
> the original 1960 rims on the F? >> Th anks for your input, and
> apologies for again bringing up an old topic ! >> Noel Hastalis
> >> Burr Ridge, IL >> [Non-text portions of this message have
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