Re: [Chrysler300] J interior dye

It would not be my intent to defend or support the performance claims of SEM. I do know they say the Sure-Coat product is a water-based one, and they referred to it as a dye rather than a paint. I have not searched for wide-spread customer comment on the product, so your guess is as good as mine as to whether it would do well in service.

As you say, Carl, it's unlikely a sprayed-on product will perform like a vat dyed surface, but sometimes you may have a leather interior that is in nearly perfect condition with the exception of discoloration. That's where a stop-gap measure of spending $100 or so on some aerosols can buy you some time until you can afford and justify the cost of a real new replacement leather set.

That's the way I'm looking at my Mercedes's leather. I can totally replace the leather to a concours standard for maybe about $9K. Trouble is I might make it imperfect if I were to drive it. So for now I'll spend a small amount to make it look sharp enough to drive and show the car, and not worry that much about the effect of wear.

BTW, SEM Products does also offer to add a "cross-linking" product to the formula which they say improves the durability of Sure-Coat for use on seating surfaces.

I hope I'm not coming off as a sales agent for SEM, but I do think there is a place for this sort of solution at times in our restoration arsenal.

Keith

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 2:23 PM, C Bilter <cbilter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I have been under the impression (correct or not) that SEM produces a flexible “paint.” If that is true it would be fine for vinyl, as vinyl is a synthetic material that is surface coated to start with and responds well to such a material. Leather is a natural material that needs to “breathe” and, as I understand it, needs to have a treatment that sufficiently penetrates the leather fibers for proper adhesion and durability but still allows the leather to breathe. A “paint” type of material, it seems to me, might give satisfactory visual results but dramatically reduce the lifespan of the leather. I may be completely wrong; so I am interested in further education.

The original finish on 300 leathers was a surface sprayed lacquer with plasticizers added, typically done on all leather back in the day. The plasticizers evaporate over time and the lacquer cracks. New technology using water based dyes over the last 25 years or more has improved that issue considerably.

Products such as Leatherique or Color-Plus (same stuff) are co-polymer water based dyes alleged to be the same material used by new car manufacturers on leather interiors. I can say from 30 years of personal experience that Leatherique is permanent and doesn’t degrade old original leather. I would be concerned about an aerosol “paint” product on old leather; so hoping that the SEM material is something different.

Carl B

From: Keith Boonstra

Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 12:57 PM

To: C Bilter

Cc: Jslayton@xxxxxxxxxx ; chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] J interior dye

Hi Johnnie,

I just got off the phone talking to Dave in Tech at SEM Products in South Carolina (800-831-1122). They make several products along thcarpet, vinyl, fabric and leather refinishing line - some of which, such as "Classic Coat", I have used quite successfully on my C. I had contacted them now as I need a very custom saddle color for a '61 Mercedes, and they were extremely accommodating.

Yesterday they had me send a sample of the color to Anne Zoelle there. The plan is that her lab will conjure up a formula for making my exact color up in their product called Sure-Coat. The formula will be forwarded to a dealer near me so he can mix it and put it in aerosol cans for my use. Sorry, I did not ask the price as I want it badly enough to pay whatever they ask.

A few minutes ago Dave told me that he was quite confident they could come up with a formula for producing the Sure-Coat in the metallic red you need to put a new finish on your J seats. Perhaps you might like to get a sample off to Anne and see what SEM can do. Better you should contact her direct than through me. Here is the direct contact info:

Anne Zoelle

SEM Products

1685 Overview Drive

Rock Hill, SC

Anne's email address is azoelle@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Good luck to us all.

Keith Boonstra

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:53 PM, 'C Bilter' cbilter@xxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The issue here is trying to match the very difficult to properly replicate claret red metallic leather of the 300J. To the eye it appears to be a copper-red metallic color with a silver hue. It doesn’t surprise me that black is in the mix, but I don’t know why that can’t be mixed with red pigment. The issue in the USA, as I have been told, is the current bureaucratic BS imposed on companies by the EPA which has effectively outlawed the proper red pigments. At least that is the story I got from Leatherique (a major and well respected supplier of custom matched leather dye). Leatherique was unable to match my unfaded original J interior sample with legal pigments, and they didn’t return the sample either. For a non-metallic red, such as the darker red/brown on the upper door panels of the J, they have no problem matching that. They could probably approximate the overall color hue of the claret red in a non-metallic format, but it would require a complete redying of the interior including the door panels and dash vinyl as it would not match the original color. My understanding is that it has always been a difficult color to replicate exactly, even when more pigments were available. Ever wonder why most Js have their original leather seats, no matter how torn up they are? This is why. The few that have been redone, including the front seats in my own J, are not perfect. Mine are very close, but were done 13 years ago, when pigments were plentiful. And still, some dye tends come off even with mild cleaners. Nothing seems to reproduce the quality and color palate of the original factory material.

Hence Johnnie’s quest to source a match from outside the States, which seems a dead end as well.

We (Jamie Hyde of the reproduction committee in particular) have been working with SMS on a solution, but that involves new leather not a dye. And with SMS’s “lightening fast” response times, we may all be centenarians before we see a product.

Any help would be appreciated by those who are trying to restore a J.

300Jly,

Carl B

From: mailto:Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 4:47 PM

To: Jslayton@xxxxxxxxxx

Cc: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] J interior dye

I missed the thread on this somehow, but it sounds like a problem I may have helpful information on. Is there a particular color of leather that you need to find a matching dye or coloring product for?

Keith Boonstra

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On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Jslayton@xxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I heard back from the guy in Canada yesterday-----he told me that there was 2 different colors in the make up of the sample I sent-----in addition to the browns, reds, and so on for the reddish color --there is also a black----he can't combine the 2 colors so we can simply dye the seats, ect. ---so he said we might be able to use the reddish color, then apply the black with a sponge to get the right factory color-----it seems way to complicated to me----does this make any sense to anybody ?--I wonder how close the color would be without the black ?----Johnnie Slayton