[Chrysler300] 1964 brake cylinder issues

Added information of possible interest. The firewall mounting plate for non-ram power brake ‘64’s is different from the non-power brake and remote power brake (ram-engined) cars. The difference is that the bolt circle on the back of the non-power brake master cylinder is different from the bolt circle on the back of the power brake booster.

My originally ram-engined car came to me with a 383 two-bbl engine, a standard P/B booster and MC on the firewall and the remote MC present but disconnected. During restoration the remote booster was also restored along with a non-boosted MC on a new mounting plate on the firewall (with the outlet check valve removed). I was not aware that the pedal linkage might have been changed, also. The brakes work fine, nicely boosted—but a little grabby with low miles on new shoes. Anyone surmise that may be due to a wrong pedal linkage?

Still trying to figure out how to plumb this system for a dual-outlet MC. Until then, the emergency brake (now called the parking brake) is the redundant system. I have had to use those a few times over the years. The old-style emergency brake with the drum on the back of the transmission does not work very proportionally at speed—more all on or all off.

300K’ly,

Rich Barber

Brentwood, CA

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'John Grady' jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 2:28 PM
To: 'Ron Waters'; Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] FYI After market brake cyl issues

I thought same way. Why would they do that? But compared firewall drilling and mount plates..different on the car I had. Beyond that I do not know. Had to fabricate pedal arm hole and push rod mount, going manual where power was, 1960. Put together stock took 500lbs to stop car ,manual. With smallest bore (manual) master. Works fine now, drove it to Ct meet.

Call it something to be aware of…

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'Ron Waters' ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:06 PM
To: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Chrysler300] FYI After market brake cyl issues

Changeover for two-platform to three-platform brakes happened in Dec 1958/Jan 1959. I have a ton of factory documentation to support that.

Worth reading:

http://imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/138/index.htm

Also worth buying is a 1959 and 1960 factory parts book.

All bodies were set up to accomodate both power and non-power brakes. Otherwise, it would be a logistical and production nightmare. When changing over from one to another, as I have done, it's imperative that you get the correct pedal assembly, master cylinder, vacuum port for the intake, etc.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: 'John Grady' jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
To: 'David Schwandt' ; 'chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Club'
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Chrysler300] FYI After market brake cyl issues

I am not sure that info in link is right, re : when it happened—not 59?? ….our experience is that this change happened in mid 58? On 300D, along with larger control arm bushings , other stuff. Protecting torsion bars from snapping off. Late 58-61 are the same; 57 early 58 the same . I do not know this as hard cold facts , but we have had this issue ;58D can have either size, often you get the wrong ones. Documentation of all this generally a wreck at auto parts stores. This link says 59 was change …??? .or maybe only low production hi perf like 300 got it in 58? . But upgrading to 60 stuff (or 61) with the 60-61 backing plates you get a much better , more evolved setup. 59 MIGHT be same. The big flat spring (easy to put that in wrong, too) is thicker , cams stay put, backing plate spacing front to back therefore thicker . Other issue is that the large diameter 12” 60-61 backing plates described are rare compared to those improved backing plates for dodge plymouth, lower power, or short wheelbase Chryslers. Smaller diameter drums, different width shoes too. Buyer beware ; I bought a whole set up, all wrong. I believe shoes are different too, some have that little depressed area to hook return spring, --I forget the exact issues.

Steering box changes too…/When? Later ones , late 58/59 on up seem to be used for quite a few years after, in many car lines ; anyone know?

I do agree a lot of bad press on total contact brakes has come from well meaning people mixing up all these pieces .

Power brake masters vs non power are another quagmire..the pedal ratios are different, not just the masters,-- master mounts,(that plate)_ firewall drillings and pedal push rod location, vs MC bore height . Parts physically fit that do not work in that area. The firewall differences are really surprising, car body must have been designated power brakes or not from get go, sets pedal ratio. . Which also sets pedal swing arm heights in upper dash and ratios on pedal arm drillings(all this on 1960 Matador—same body as F) ..and adding to confusion there are often two drillings on pedal arm , both wrong for manual brakes. At least two pedal arms. Plus bores of cylinders.

Maybe others more fanatic on the record keeping side can chime in.. Or maybe all this exists somewhere..

Yes ----save all OEM stuff off these cars….

Why getting an unmolested car matters, too.

From: Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:Chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of 'David Schwandt' finsruskw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300]
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 8:07 AM
To: chrysler300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Club
Subject: [Chrysler300] FYI After market brake cyl issues

FYI
Good thread w/pic’s about Chinese re-pop junk brake cyl’s
Makes me think I should start saving the old OEM cyls for cores.

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=57103&posts=4#M473840

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Posted by: "Rich Barber" <c300@xxxxxxx>

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