Re: [Chrysler300] ZDDP additives
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Re: [Chrysler300] ZDDP additives

John, so what ZDDP additive do you use with Mobil 1?  Given the information earlier, since ZDDP dissolves easily in mineral and synthetic oils, the previous concern expressed by a lot of people in the past that any additive gets removed by good oil filters seems to be untrue.  That is good to know, as it has been in the back of my mind as a possibility.  Even the racing engine rebuilders seem to be maintaining that filter removal theory though, and most still recommend use of Valvoline Racing Oil instead for flat tappet cam engines rather than use of an additive.    

And I have been using the regular Valvoline 10W30 oil in my 1989 Dodge Dakota for the last 20 years along with lower ZDDP levels and at 180K miles now, it still runs just like new and never even have had a valve job - still smooth as glass and burns no oil.  So given that reality, I still find myself wondering what to believe?  But what you are doing with Mobil 1 and use of a ZDDP additive is swaying my behavior.

Thank you,
Steve Albu

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 5:38 AM John Grady jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Excellent . Adding it to our oils is I believe necessary to avoid cam / lifter failures . Unless printed on the can I am not sure you know the ppm —when it is claimed to be in the oil . You do if you add it . I think under 10$ an addition? 

Personally , Mobil 1 And ZDDP added together is awfully good. I do not trust “ Mikes super race oil” type stuff . Plus ten years of very positive results( 300k Miles , no oil burning, no cam issues on JEEP 4.0, 10 k mile changes ) 

Sent from my iPhone

On 12 Oct 2018, at 9:34 pm, Ray Melton <rfmelton@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Hello John and others:

This is from Wikipedia:

Zinc dithiophosphate

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Structure of a monomeric zinc dialkyldithiophosphate

Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphates (often referred to as ZDDP) are a family of coordination compounds developed in the 1940s that feature zinc bound to the anion of a dialkyldithiophosphoric acid (e.g. ammonium diethyl dithiophosphate).[1] These uncharged compounds are not salts. They are soluble in nonpolar solvents, and the longer chain derivatives easily dissolve in mineral and synthetic oils used as lubricants. They come under CAS number 68649-42-3. In aftermarket oil additives, the percentage of ZDDP ranges approximately between 2–15%.[2] Zinc dithiophosphates have many names including ZDDP, ZnDTP, and ZDP..


The main application of ZDDPs are as anti-wear additives in lubricants including greases, hydraulic oils, and motor oils. ZDDPs also act as corrosion inhibitors and antioxidants. They are almost ubiquitous in lubricants and treatment rates are usually between 600 ppm for modern, energy conserving low viscosity oils to 2000 ppm of this additive in some racing oils.

It has been reported that zinc and phosphorus emissions may damage catalytic converters and standard formulations of lubricating oils for gasoline engines now have reduced amounts of the additive due to the API limiting the concentration of this additive in new API SM and SN oils, however this only affects 20 and 30 grade "ILSAC" oils, 40 and higher grades have no regulation regarding the concentration of ZDDP except for diesel oils meeting the API CJ-4 specification which have had the level of zddp reduced slightly, although most diesel Heavy Duty Engine oils still have a higher concentration of this additive.[3] Crankcase oils with reduced ZDDP have been cited as causing damage to, or failure of, classic/collector car flat tappet camshafts and lifters which undergo very high boundary layer pressures and/or shear forces at their contact faces, and in other regions such as big-end/main bearings, and piston rings and pins. Roller camshafts/followers are more commonly used to reduce camshaft lobe friction in modern engines.[4] There are additives, such as STP(R) Oil Treatment, and some racing oils such as PurOl, Brad Penn and Valvoline VR-1, which are available in the retail market with the necessary amount of ZDDP for engines using increased valve spring pressures.

Also look at this article on ZDDP Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphate       

In addition to generic structure shown by Wikipedia above, the chemical name itself also shows that the ZDDP molecule - and there may be several variants, depending on the length of the "alkyl" ( carbon/hydrogen) chains involved - also contains Sulfur (the thio- part) and Phosphorus (phosphate)

Ray Melton   Las Cruces, NM  1957 Chrysler 300C cvt

On 10/12/2018 8:03 AM, John Grady jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] wrote:

I may be wrong but ZDDP is not a “zinc additive” whatever that is ; I believe it contains the phosphorus. , maybe more . 

We do not want to inadvertently add confusion to this . 
That said valvoline racing is a good answer . 

Sent from my iPhone

On 12 Oct 2018, at 12:07 am, leslie miklas ldmiklas@xxxxxxxxxxx [Chrysler300] <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

PLEASE  do not  depend on zinc ADDITIVES to keep your engine alive. Zinc requires phosphorous molecules, split at the early stage of manufacture, in order to integrate in to the oil solution. It was the phosphorous that was "outlawed", not the zinc, in oil. (Catalytic converters) Without phosphorous, there can be no zinc. Aftermarket  Zinc ADDITIVES will not integrate and will lie in the bottom of your oil pan and possibly plug the pick-up and galleys.

To be safe, use oil like the Valvoline Racing Oil or similar products that are manufactured with zinc. The "Gov't"  allows exemptions for limited use performance oils such as these. Pay the extra $ .

This is my $.02 worth. Take it or leave it; don't want to debate it !

Happy Motoring


On October 11, 2018 at 6:35 PM "'Michael Ashmore' michael.ashmore@xxxxxxx [Chrysler300]" <Chrysler300-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Interesting information.  My mechanic just told me to run 15-40 Dello or Rotello diesel motor oil in my 300G.  Also he said todays motor oil doesn't have zinc to lubricate the cam and lifters because todays engines are all roller type rockers.  Also he said to add a zinc additive (ZDDP) at every oil change otherwise your cam will be worn down in no time.
Lessons learned!
Mike 300G.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2018 9:55 AM
Subject: [Chrysler300] Addidtives question -



Several years ago, while at a mini Club gathering at George Riehl's, George had a fellow there who was hawking some products. George highly recommended these. They've been sitting collecting dust, and I'm apprehensive about using them  They're made by Hapco Products out of Fraser, Michigan.-

  • Slip Coat dripless seal additive. Says it "Increases gas mileage 10% to 20%, Clings to lifters and cam, Prevents dry start-ups, Increases oil pressure and engine life, extreme pressure and anti-wear formula."
  • SealLube seal expander - Says it "Positively stops rubber seal leaks in any fluid system, Power steering seals, Rack & pinion seals, Transmission seals, Crankshaft main seals, Any fluid system."

I'm going to toss these unless I hear otherwise, that these are really great to use in my 300.







Posted by: Steve <saforwardlook@xxxxxxxxx>

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