Re: {Chrysler 300} Rear brake drums / hubs ? changed in 60 ?

That is a drum/drum master, it also clears the Ram manifold and what I use on my 61 Savoy. However take care that these do not hold the same fluid volume as disk units, so you need to check as they wear and more fluid is required.

-----Original Message-----
From: "'Keith Langendorfer' via Chrysler 300 Club International" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 8:05pm
To: "Nick Taylor" <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx>, "chrysler 300 club" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "dan300f" <dan300f@xxxxxxx>, "dplotkin" <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "John Grady" <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "John Nowosacki" <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx>, "RON WATERS" <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Rear brake drums / hubs ? changed in 60 ?

My F was converted to front discs (casting # on calipers line up with early ‘70’s Pontiac Firebird units.) It was also converted to a dual master at the same time (I think). Here’s a pic of that unit. It has a center bolt and clears the manifold but it is very tight under the booster. The only way I can check the fluid is to leave the bolt in the cover when I slide it to the side and add fluid with a Turkey Baster. Unfortunately, I don’t know what the original vehicle the dual would have been for but I did use a ‘69 Dart/ Barracuda dual master in a ‘65 Coronet I had several years ago.

Keith

On Nov 15, 2021, at 7:38 PM, Nick Taylor <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Here's the link to your page. It looks like you used a master cylinder with a rectangular lid with a bolt in the middle like in the attached image.
If so, the length wasn't a problem with the front hitting the manifold?

Thanks, Nick

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 4:24 PM dan300f <dan300f@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi all,

I disagree. I now have a master cylinder on my F from a 1969 Barracuda. To mount it, just put in front end down first and then rotate it on to the mounting studs. Also, grind off a little of the circumference of the ball on the push rod. I am not at my computer now but I have an article about this in the Technical section in the Club's web site.

Dan Reitz

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device

-------- Original message --------

From: dplotkin <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Date: 11/15/21 10:05 AM (GMT-08:00)

To: Nick Taylor <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx>

Cc: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, John Nowosacki <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx>, RON WATERS <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>, chrysler 300 club <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Rear brake drums / hubs ? changed in 60 ?

On the F the only dual master cylinder that will clear the driver side carburetor is the 1970 Imperial unit but it has to be cut down to fit under the booster.

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------

From: Nick Taylor <nicksgaragesd@xxxxxxxxx>

Date: 11/15/21 12:56 PM (GMT-05:00)

To: Dan Plotkin <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Cc: John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, John Nowosacki <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx>, RON WATERS <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>, chrysler 300 club <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Rear brake drums / hubs ? changed in 60 ?

I was talking to someone on Facebook a while back who has a '60 Imperial there they changed the master cylinder to a dual one but kept the front drum brakes. They used one from a Dart or Valiant that was low profile to fit under the booster. It looks like the attached.

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 9:36 AM Dan Plotkin <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

All-

My F arrived with an AAJ brake kit but the old single circuit master with its residual valve had been left installed. Great pedal, but the brakes dragged badly. With all that 413 oomph previous owners may not have noticed. When I got the car it couldn’t be pushed by hand. The rotors were blue from the heat. I went through hell and a lot of parts until I found a master cylinder that would work along with AAJ’s help and I re-plumbed it for two circuits using a 1970 Imperial master with the top cut down .700. In the end I have a two circuit disk brake system that works. Pedal travel is more than I like but it’s as good as it will get and the car stops.

Lesson: Leave your brakes stock if you can. I’d rather have the lousy original F drums in front with a high pedal.

From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Grady
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2021 10:49 AM
To: John Nowosacki <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: RON WATERS <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx>; chrysler 300 club <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: {Chrysler 300} Rear brake drums / hubs ? changed in 60 ?

hi Ron , agree — but car has completely new 2” brakes backing plates , shoes, cylinders etc . If you increase shoe width , that 1/2 “ added width on each side adds in where ? given a fixed axle flange ? says hubs or axles maybe housing changes length ( I doubt that)—- to allow narrower shoes / drums = the tires must move in or the rim offset was changed? I remember some 57-59 Dodges and plymouths looked weird with narrow tires , maybe 6 cyl used narrower tires and rims? looked tucked under the car to me. who knows.

Backing plates must be different for different shoe width ? I don’t know any of this ?

While not questioning posted experience on rims not sitting right , that surface is flat (?) but there are issues with lug nut cone shapes bottoming out and Ford 41/2” pattern parts ending up on our cars , especially in the context of changing to all R studs . Leave it all stock is the best answer in 2021 if you can find the stuff Don’t mix stuff up .

That said, i put 12 “ F brakes under another 57 Dodge , but looking back I used F axle, (and springs — which are longer , had to relocate rear hangers) .

Welcome to a world of crazy minor variations (!) in these cars for no good reason ( engineer hat on ) just like the 3 completely different lines and sizes of early hemi, most of which overlap in cu in ) .

I debated putting 12 “ on this car , would have to do fronts then , and I have them .

But decided to keep stock . All this is good info .

Do parts books on 60 up show drum and hub as separate parts ( quite aside from ? huge effort to separate — as compared to “one piece “ 57-59 parts ) ? Important to know — if one day there are no one piece hub and drum replacements on pre 62 cars ? May be an answer here .. ?

Fronts now have later mopar drums (?) , unknown year , we located centers on lathe , pinned location , to hub — other than locating right , they will be squeezed by lug nuts just like later removable mopar drums . That squeeze is what carries the drum brake torque not the pins . I am ok with that , so far so good .

Big view , a brake kit from AAJ may end up cheaper $ than all this , but this is a non power brake car . Disc on manual brakes are a little dicey on longer pedal travel and high force . Can work but stock brakes working right is a better feel.

Sent from my iPhone not by choice

On 15 Nov 2021, at 9:54 am, John Nowosacki <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ron,

Your cars may have already had larger rims that worked with 12x2-1/2, so you didn't see the problem.

I had a 61 Newport with 'smaller' brakes and switched the wheels/tires from it onto my wife's 62 NYer rear end. Upon driving for the first time, the brakes pulsed severely and were not usable. The 'smaller' rims distorted the rear drums when I tightened them onto the axle. Luckily no permanent damage was done as I immediately took them off and switched them back and the problem went away.

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 9:28 AM RON WATERS <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

John, John and others -

The same rims that fit 11 x 2 will fit 11 x 2 1/2 and 12 x 2 1/2. Both my 58 Plymouth and 59 Dodge started with 11" drums and are now sporting 12" drums. 12" drums were also used on Plymouth and Dodge police cars.

Ron

On 11/15/2021 7:07 AM John Nowosacki <jsnowosacki@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Before 'upgrading' drums, either in width or diameter, make sure you have appropriate wheels/rims that are compatible. Rims designed to fit properly on 11x2 rims won't fit properly over 12x2-1/2 drums. There may even be issues just with different widths.

On Sun, Nov 14, 2021 at 7:53 PM Ron Waters <ronbo97@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

One piece hub and drum for both front and rear. Just researched in the 60
parts book. Interesting to note that the drums were different depending on
whether the car was built in Detroit or not. This is true of 11" brakes, but
not 12", which are the same no matter where the car was built.

John, not sure what you are working on, but I would go with the 11 x 2 1/2,
as there is more surface area. 11 x 2s are inadequate. Or better yet, put 12
x 2 1/2 brakes all around and experience superior braking, assuming you are
working on a junior model which was born with 11" brakes.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx On Behalf Of John
Grady
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2021 1:17 PM
To: chrysler 300 club
Subject: {Chrysler 300} Rear brake drums / hubs ? changed in 60 ?

As we know these drums were factory made by Chrysler in one piece riveted
with hub (?) and possibly machined that way 57-59 and probably back to 30's
. . So perfect centering .

As I still have no success on finding 11 x2 Dodge rears ,( 2.5 are out
there ) - and someone had very poorly modified mine by removing original
drum , adding another loose drum ( later mopar ,? and new studs ) They used
the stud holes to locate , totally inadequate , - as done.. Runs out .060
+ and cut .100 over ( dumb..)! But all that driven by lack of availability ?

So in looking , there are new 60-61 11 x 2 drums around for 60-61 Dodge .
They are loose without taper hub .But as (I think !) I recall 60 dodge used
tapered axles like our 300 do up till 62 . And these new 60 drums fit on
front , too (!) So are 60 mopar drums serviced separately from the hub (
why different drums listed in 60-61 vs 59 back? ) Dodge 11x2 59 back with
hub drums are impossible to get , we may face this on our 12" drums very
soon . Still available ( Kantor last year ) but waning supply and very large
$ .
Does anyone know about this ? The 60 dodge drum has a defined toleranced
pilot hole , I assume for centering , but the 58 hub I have does not have
that machining , 1960 must - although I think I can add that ? Maybe 60
hubs all have it , Or possibly same guy cut the hub face to align new drum
he used in and out?

A drum revision in 60 ? Also in the 60 dodge front and back drums
interchange - a very rational reason to allow hub and drum to separate ??
although the 60 hub has rivet holes too

Obviously all probably applicable to 300 too , just larger drum ... ??
comments ?
Thank you ,
John

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