Re: {Chrysler 300} Motor Oil Zinc

[John Grady <jkg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

my engine builder lost 7 race engines when the “ zinc thing” started . he had to eat them, huge $ from big racers .  . they ( comp) blamed oil . I saw Ford coyotes there with . 700 lift . serious stuff .  

he had tests done on comp hydraulic and solid lifters , they swore no changes. Flat out lies. He had old and new . Your could see different machining marks , he had them to show me— he had them tested , hardness and  heat treat was totally different  — as well as appearance 

He does hundreds of engines a year . They pushed roller cams “ due to zinc” ( coincidence ? -it was at the same time ) 

Now the real  biggie ; he had in storage many 50 gallon drums of oil , years old , using the  same oil all through this .  Good stuff like Valvolline 

He let them blabber on in emails , then threatened suit as oil was exactly the same , no failures for 15 years then 7 in one year .

They did a huge backtrack . Not sure how they settled , the usual “ admit no wrong “ here is cash . 

He believes it was all bs , caused by chinese or mexican  lifters and a comp corporate strategy to deal with ?suddenly  hundreds of cam failures . Note it is not cam , it was lifters 

all the millions of old darts and toyotas or chevy  driving around with flat lifters did not suddenly start eating cams . But new engines did .

I believe him . 

want the truth ? follow the $ 

john 

ps i am sure this is fixed now , comp cam design is technically pretty good , although not all agree .  But best cam  in the world is turned to junk with bad lifters . 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 23, 2023, at 4:14 PM, dplotkin <dplotkin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



No reason for grief. 

I became aware of the zinc controversy in roughly 2007 when I completed the build of my Ram Inducted 440 Savoy. At the time the machine shop Industry was facing inordinate camshaft failure. These failures were roughly coterminous with a reduction in zinc in motor oil. 

My understanding is that zinc is necessary in high performance flat tapit engines with heavy valve springs. Zinc is less necessary, maybe not at all in regular duty engines such as that in your DeSoto. 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------

From: 'James Douglas' via Chrysler 300 Club International <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Date: 6/23/23 10:26 AM (GMT-05:00)

To: "Chrysler 300 List Server (chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)" <chrysler-300-club-international@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: {Chrysler 300} Motor Oil Zinc

I am sure I will get a lot of grief but…

 

I use straight 30 or 40 without any zinc. The ZINC thing is in my opinion is much ado about nothing. Years ago, I talked with someone who does the testing of engine oils for a very large organization. Their job is to evaluate the oil companies’ oil for conformance to their published specifications. They have a room of engines that are the most blueprinted and checked engines in the world. They must be to detect what oil does or does not due to them. They are also all non-hydraulic cam engines.

 

They have found no wear differences with or without zinc in the engines. Period.

 

They have found that a number of camshafts in the 1990's, when a LOT of cam production moved out of the USA, had issues with Rockwell Hardness on the lobes. In fact, I know of several engine builders that now send out camshafts and lifters for Rockwell testing. Guess what?  Several of them fail even recently.

 

I suspect that proper hardness treating of cams and lifters drives much of the speculation about Zinc. I could not find one single "hard science" document on the subject. A lot of opinion, but nothing definitive where two exactly the same engines in all respects were run with and without zinc and the wear differences were measured and documented..

 

My 1947 Desoto Suburban engine I built 20 years ago, has about 75K miles on it. I run it in the Hills of San Francisco and the Interstate to my place out of town at 70 MPH. The car is about 5000 pounds. I looked at the cam a while back with the side covers off and a bore scope. The cam was NOS when it went in. It looks fine with no evidence of advanced wear. I never used any zinc.

James.

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