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ttotired

Posted 2013-12-23 7:03 PM (#418081)
Subject: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car...
s-/131077711488?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1e84d72680&item=131077711488&pt=Race_Cars_Not_Street_Legal_#ht_707wt_1133
#ht_707wt_1133

BIN $500,000

Just got to have a dig around in my cars consol to see if I can find enough to get me over the line

Doctor DeSoto

Posted 2013-12-23 8:27 PM (#418091 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: RE: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

Location: Parts Unknown

Outside of a half-million-dollar paperweight, .... what would a person do with it ?

ttotired

Posted 2013-12-23 8:40 PM (#418093 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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As a business person (very small business), the only use I could think of would be to trailer it around to nascar meets and use it as a display piece (charged admission) with other racing memorabilia items and maybe another clone car (with a passenger seat) to take out on the track for "hot lap sessions".

Either that or as a nice home for spiders in a big shed full of other nice spider homes

The Chrysler Kid

Posted 2013-12-23 9:04 PM (#418097 - in reply to #418093)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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You could charge people to take pictures in it.

60 dart

Posted 2013-12-24 12:05 AM (#418108 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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anyone know the history of why the towel is in the car --------------------------------------------------------later

ttotired

Posted 2013-12-24 12:12 AM (#418110 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Maybe the aircon isnt so good

58coupe

Posted 2013-12-24 9:59 AM (#418151 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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easy to answer the towel question. It's got some "genuine" Richard Petty sweat on it. That's why the car is priced so high. It's an ELVIS thing!

DIF-RNT

Posted 2013-12-24 10:23 AM (#418155 - in reply to #418151)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

Location: NE Ohio

58coupe - 2013-12-24 9:59 AM

easy to answer the towel question. It's got some "genuine" Richard Petty sweat on it. That's why the car is priced so high. It's an ELVIS thing!

Yes but he is not dead yet

b5rt

Posted 2013-12-24 11:47 AM (#418174 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Yeah but how much will Richard Petty DNA bring on the open market after he has passed?

d500neil

Posted 2013-12-25 10:17 PM (#418445 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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The original 1960 race car almost certainly had its OEM bench seat in it; that's a 1962+ DOD/PLY bucket seat, there.

That seat could be off of a 1960+ 300, but you know that the Petty's didn't bother spending the bux to install an F-seat
into one of their beater 1960 race cars.

60 Plymouth

Posted 2013-12-26 7:13 AM (#418478 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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That car being a Fury almost certainly probably had a swivel seat in it. This seat looks like what is left from a swivel seat available for that year.
I mean Richard does document this the car he drove in 1960

ttotired

Posted 2013-12-26 6:31 PM (#418570 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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The document looks useless to me

Apart from saying #43 on the paper, there is nothing on there to say that THAT is the car

I could build up and paint a car with #43 on the side as well.

Maybe you are paying 5 to 10 thousand for the car and the rest is for a signed peice of paper?

It needs to have the cars vin, engine number and any other identifying items noted, would probably help if it wasnt restored and had a picture of him standing next to it with identifying damage (hard to duplicate crash creases)

How could a man positively identify a car he drove back in the day after a restoration?

Sure, might look exactly like it, but is it really it?

I am not hating this car, just for money they are asking, this is not a car, but an invesment and that the light I am looking at it in.

Doctor DeSoto

Posted 2013-12-26 8:35 PM (#418597 - in reply to #418570)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

Location: Parts Unknown

This is where I like cars and have little use for Cult of Personality/celebrity/"investment" BS.

If you have more money than God and are into million dollar paperweights, all good and fine.
Just not my idea of being into old cars. Get in that b!tch and drive it.

BigBlockMopar

Posted 2013-12-27 6:45 AM (#418671 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: RE: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Sorry but this looks so like an overrestored clone to me.
Where are the dents in the bumper as can be seen in the group photo car?
Why are the headlight 'covers' different on the group car than on the polished turd car?
Where's the hood-secure strip?
So much for originallity...

The restored pics look like they were taken in the '80s?

Was this the original car?

(Leepetty1961daytona500wentoutoftrack.gif)

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ttotired

Posted 2013-12-27 8:23 AM (#418677 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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The advertised car and the group photo car are different cars

Apart from whats already mentioned, the headlight delete on the cars are different and it looks like the number on the door of the group car would be 42, so that picture really has no relevence

($_3.jpg)

($_31.jpg)

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60 dart

Posted 2013-12-27 2:39 PM (#418725 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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the richard petty rag or towel is part of the legend . he used to keep a damp rag or small towel in his mouth while racing to keep from getting thirsty . the question of how could he identify
one of his old cars ? back then nascar cars were almost like finger prints . every builder did different things and in certain ways , right down to how parts were mated and including welds . for
the same car to have two different numbers wouldn't be a stretch at all . since both the dad and richard raced from the same garage . the re-cycling of bodies was a frequent matter of dollars .
you also have to consider some years they raced in over 50 races per yr. , making recycling profitable , much as it's done today . back it those days the car were factory stock BUT there were
areas that could be modified for things such a strength . if petty says such and such car was his , take it to the bank -------------------------------------------------later

BigBlockMopar

Posted 2013-12-27 4:19 PM (#418743 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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I see the numbering on the car door is different indeed. The pic is just for showing Petty in the same stance as he did later on with the 43 car.

ttotired

Posted 2013-12-27 6:32 PM (#418777 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Chuck, I see what your saying, but, still, that peice of paper has no tie in to that car (except that the person selling the car has the piece of paper)

I am not saying this is not a genuine car (I have no idea, cant see it, wouldnt know what to look for either), just (if it was mine), I would find some way of tying the paper to the car, or get another paper done (while Petty is still around) that does tie it in

If you get a cetificate for a ring, there is always a picture of the ring and a detailed description of it on the paper to tie the paper to the ring, this is (at least) what this car needs

1960fury

Posted 2013-12-30 3:15 PM (#419316 - in reply to #418777)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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looks like some $$$*******$$$ ruined a good fury 2 d ht and turned into a half a million dollar paperweight (clone). fortunately they did not enlarge the rear wheel openings like on the real petty belvedere (not fury) race cars. someone correct me if i'm wrong but the 60 lee/richard plymouths had the small (belvedere) back window and modified rear wheel openings. i do not think any of the real stock cars survived. in 60/61 richard petty wasn't a legend yet and why should have anyone kept a finned(!) beat up useless race car during the 60s and 70s? after the 60/61 season and the new b bodys these cars were worthless.

d500neil

Posted 2013-12-31 12:03 PM (#419450 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: RE: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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And, in Re: my statement, above, you can see the OEM bench seat that was in the Pettys'
cars.

And, that is a 60+ "bucket seat" installed in the race car clone.

(Petty seat.gif)

(PICT4541.JPG)

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PICT4541.JPG (110KB - 119 downloads)

d500neil

Posted 2013-12-31 12:24 PM (#419455 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: RE: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Back glass, Sid, like these examples?

(PICT4533.JPG)

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PICT4533.JPG (106KB - 110 downloads)

jboymechanic

Posted 2013-12-31 12:40 PM (#419457 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Here we go again, crying over how somebody decided to restore their car...

1960fury

Posted 2013-12-31 1:32 PM (#419466 - in reply to #419457)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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jboymechanic - 2013-12-31 12:40 PM

Here we go again, crying over how somebody decided to restore their car...

??? define "RESTORE". you mean if i paint over the mona lisa and turn it into someting it never was i "restored" it?

Mopar1

Posted 2013-12-31 1:43 PM (#419468 - in reply to #419457)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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jboymechanic - 2013-12-31 11:40 AM

Here we go again, crying over how somebody decided to restore their car...

Not really, he claiming it IS Petty's old car. IF it isn't he created a fake & is trying to defraud a victim.

BigBlockMopar

Posted 2013-12-31 2:34 PM (#419480 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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But, is it still an "original" race-car? Or just blatent investment-opportunity for a goldchainer?
If I wanted to buy an original racecar I would want to see tiremarks and damages on the 'last' original paintjob from the last race it participated in. Not some polished up powerpuff poodle.
Thinking how real racecars get built-up usually, I'm willing to bet that this Petty racecar never even looked that neat and clean when he put it on the track the first time.

Just some of my cents... or sents?

jboymechanic

Posted 2013-12-31 6:04 PM (#419523 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Maybe it has been restored to a condition that Richard Petty envisioned it? I don't know and neither does any one here. I would have to assume it's legit. I just get tired of seeing everybody crapping all over darn near every car that comes up for sale because it is "incorrect" or "inaccurate". Bitch about the price all you want, I don't think the seller will ever see it either, but don't bash the car.

d500neil

Posted 2013-12-31 6:29 PM (#419530 - in reply to #419523)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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The condition of the car is reflected in its Fair Market Value.

Don't "bash" the car?

How do you separate a fraudulent presentation or poor execution from its asking price?

Powerflite

Posted 2013-12-31 7:38 PM (#419553 - in reply to #419455)
Subject: RE: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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d500neil - 2013-12-31 9:24 AM

Back glass, Sid, like these examples?

Ah, so Lee Petty's number is 42, and the car in the picture above with everyone standing in front of it, is actually Lee's car. But, I agree that I see both cars with small back windows, and the wrecked car as well.

d500neil

Posted 2013-12-31 7:51 PM (#419556 - in reply to #419553)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Lee's racing number was always 42, going back to The Petty Brothers' 1949 Plymouth.

As a trivia question, his only other racing number was.......#38, on his 1946 Buick Roadmonster.

ttotired

Posted 2013-12-31 7:56 PM (#419557 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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I would be very surprised if the car sold for anywhere near the asking price

I think its just there to let potential buyers know the car is for sale and it wont be a low (relatively speaking) price.

I think that if you saw the price and were willing to contact the seller to negociate a real price, the seller would be confident that are are likely to be able to buy it at what they concider it to be really worth.

As I said above, my main concern is the paper trail, it does not have enough detail to lock it to that car.

I am not knocking the car itself, it looks like a race car, it looks like a car Mr Petty may have had as a race car (before it was raced) It has a picture of Mr petty leaning on it in a pose that ressembles a picture from "the day", it even has a signed piece of paper from Mr Petty, but there would need to be a detail of the car noted on the paper that relates to the structure of the car (body number, engine number, something like that) to lock that car to the paper for me (if I was a buyer, and I am not) to buy that car for money aproaching anywhere near the asking price.

Its more because at some stage or another, this car would be sold again and the same questions I am asking (I think ) will be asked again by a potential buyer.

The piece of paper (in relation to the car) is probably worth more than the car as its meant to provide providence to the car (and to me, it doesnt because of the lack of reference to the actual car itself)

Do you guys think I am being to "nit picky?

($_57.jpg)

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$_57.jpg (70KB - 105 downloads)

ttotired

Posted 2013-12-31 8:07 PM (#419561 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Just as a thought

Perhaps, there is an orriginal sales docket or whatever they used to get, that would also come with the car (that would have car details on it) saying it was sold to Petty Enterprises that the seller is not disclosing.

I would think that, that would then be the tying piece of evidence that the car itself, being owned by Petty and then certified by Petty as one of his cars, would then be enough evidence to say that it is actually a former race car and it would be reasonable to be confident that Mr Petty did race it.

Pictures of the car at the mentioned races (to answer the fury/belvedere, big back window/small back window) would also help

bigears

Posted 2013-12-31 9:49 PM (#419569 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: RE: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Whatever blows your hair back

.......... If I had 500K I could think of better things to spend it on. An investment I don't think so

ttotired

Posted 2013-12-31 10:40 PM (#419573 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Kind of what I was getting at

Sure a house would do better

d500neil

Posted 2014-01-01 7:12 PM (#419688 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: RE: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Coincidentally, this appeared in the 1/1/14 L.A. Times:

(PICT4627.JPG)

(PICT4628.JPG)

(PICT4629.JPG)

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PICT4628.JPG (70KB - 102 downloads)
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PICT4629.JPG (58KB - 113 downloads)

1960fury

Posted 2014-01-01 7:41 PM (#419695 - in reply to #419688)
Subject: RE: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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martinsville april 10 1960. small back glass, modified rear wheel openings=that car is a fake.

Edited by 1960fury 2014-01-01 7:43 PM

(Pettymartinsville.jpg)

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ttotired

Posted 2014-01-01 7:48 PM (#419696 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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Interesting article Neil. but I would not say this car is a fake unless there is something to prove that it is a fake.

I just have not seen anything that would say its a genuine car

As I said earlier, unless the seller has more paperwork that relates specifically to the car, the paper trail is in complete and if I had that sort of coin to splash out on a car like this (or any other one going for money, even 1/10th of its price), I would want a traceable history.

Its main selling point is that its alleged to be an orriginal race car, driven by Mr Petty, in which he won 3 races over the space of 1 year

It needs sale dockets (or whatever transfered ownership to the Petty's, it needs pictures of the car in those races (that are clear enough to see at least some detail) and, I would ask Mr Petty to do another certification document that had the vehicle vin, engine number and/or any other specific identifying aspects of the body to positively identify the car to his certification, otherwise, to me, the car is a very nice replica of the type of car Mr Petty drove in the 1960 era and not worth what a fully documented car would be.

Bit like a replica batmobile (or Christine for that matter)

I believe the people that would be in the market for that car would also be smart enough to want a bit more evidence than whats been shown

d500neil

Posted 2014-01-01 10:06 PM (#419721 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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But, this car's PAINT is so pretty....right?

The "Sky High" back window does not appear to have been a feature on the Petty's 1960 race cars, and, they had modified
rear wheel openings, to accommodate the large NASCAR wheels/tires.

jboymechanic

Posted 2014-01-02 9:40 AM (#419773 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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How can you be so certain this car has the "Sky High" rear windshield from the available picture angles? Modified wheel well openings = not original wheel well openings.

GregCon

Posted 2014-01-02 9:52 AM (#419775 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: Re: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

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you have to love how the 'certified letter' in no way is tied to that car in particular. All it says is 'this car'. Well, OK, which car?

d500neil

Posted 2014-01-02 7:45 PM (#419881 - in reply to #418081)
Subject: RE: Richard-Pettys-1960-Plymouth-Fury-Stock-Car

Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Now, if THIS car ever shows up...

Note its OEM wheelcovers; apparently this photo was taken before the car ever raced,
or, L. Petty wanted to dress up the car, for publicity purposes

(PICT4659.JPG)

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PICT4659.JPG (101KB - 102 downloads)

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