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Extreme Veteran
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Location: southern Oklahoma | Do '61 Savoys have a nameplate or badge anywhere on them that says "Savoy"? |
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Expert
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Location: Parts Unknown | I am not an expert on ANYTHING ! I have a '61 Dodge Seneca (cheapest model) and there is nothing in the interior but it does say Seneca on the quarters - I would not be suprised if that's the same for the '61 Plymouth cheapy !? (there might have been Savoy on the rear decklid only) |
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Regular
Posts: 69
Location: Central New Jersey, USA | The 1960 plymouth savoy has no name plate on it that says savoy. Only plymouth and forward look emblems. |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | 1961savoy - 2009-08-02 1:54 PM
Do '61 Savoys have a nameplate or badge anywhere on them that says "Savoy"?
No. The 1959 Savoy had a "Savoy" nameplate while the 1960 just had the Forward Look boomerang on the rear fenders. 1961 Plymouth Savoy models just had "Plymouth" on the front and rear ends with no nameplate or emblem of any kind on the sides.
For 1962 the Savoy had a "Plymouth" nameplate on the front doors and for 1963-64 on the front fenders. Why Chrysler forked out the bucks to tool a "Plymouth" nameplate instead of shorter "Savoy" . . .
The 1965 Plymouth Savoy, the last year for the name, had a nameplate on the front fender where the Fury I nameplate was on U.S. models. Although the American Fury was sold as Fury I, Fury II, Fury III and Sport Fury, in Canada it was Savoy, Fury II, Fury III and Sport Fury.
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Expert
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Location: Australia | no the savoys didnt have a 'savoy' name plate... neither do any of the '61 plymouth suburbans... they can be identified through the variations in the side stainless... cheers adriana  |
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Veteran
Posts: 291
Location: Enfield, CT | Agreed - no SAVOY identifier anywhere on the body. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 558
Location: Central Ohio | Mine said it on the title! Its too bad they did not have an emblem, I always loved the "plymouth" script on my 61. It would have looked cool to have "savoy" in that same script on the front fenders. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | May be that the ritsy Savoy Hotel had a problem with their name being associated with Ply's cheapest (ok: least
expensive) car.
Actually, the Plaza was El Cheapo, right? The Savoy may, still, have objected to the appropriation
of its name by one of the "Low-Priced three" car brands.
Plymouth readily acknowledged that its three models were named after expensive hotels.
Hmmm: the Plymouth Motel-Six? I don't think so.
Edited by d500neil 2009-08-03 4:41 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
The Savoy name first appeared for a more expensive version of the Suburban in 1951. In 1953 while the Suburban was a model in the cheap Cambridge series the Savoy wagon was in the higher priced Cranbrook series. Plymouth did offer a Plaza Maroon Metallic colour in 1953.
In 1954 the Plaza name replaced the Cambridge at the bottom while the Savoy name replaced the Cambridge, which was now the middle series with the Belvedere becoming the new high-priced series.
For 1959 the Plaza was dropped and all the series moved down one rung with the Savoy on the bottom, Belvedere in the middle and the Fury on the top. Those three series names would be used through to and including 1964. A new Sport Fury series replaced the old special Fury series, although it did not appear in 1960 or 1961.
No idea why Chrysler did not put a "Savoy" nameplate on the 1961-64 Plymouths, but they did use the Savoy name in all marketing materials (advertisement, brochures, etc.). But after using the "Savoy" nameplate on the sides of their cars for 11 model years I sincerely doubt the hotel had anything to do with it.
Anyway, Plymouth never claimed the names Plaza and Savoy were taken from the hotels in New York City. That claim was made by writers many years after the fact.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Ahhh, I'll bet you that I can come up with some contemporary factory advertising/literature confirming the hotel-
provenance for the three PLY model names.
PLY stopped using "Savoy" on the cars for some good reason.
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2009-08-03 3:13 PM
Ahhh, I'll bet you that I can come up with some contemporary factory advertising/literature confirming the hotel-
provenance for the three PLY model names.
PLY stopped using "Savoy" on the cars for some good reason.
One very good reason - no room for it.
The mid-range Belvedere name was used starting in 1965 on the B-body, intermediate range of cars, following the example of Ford with the Fairlane in 1962. Belvedere series were I, II, and Satellite.
The top-line Fury name was used starting in 1965 on the C-body, full-size range of cars, following the example of Ford with the Galaxie in 1962. Fury series were I, II, III and Sport Fury.
The compact A body cars used the name Valiant with series names V-100, V-200 and Signet. Barracuda was used for the sporty fastback hardtop.
There were no other sizes of Plymouth built. Thus the Savoy was dumped. As all bottom of the line series get dumped by manufacturers (Plaza, Meadowbrook, Coronet, Royal, Windsor, Newport, Delray, Biscayne, BelAir, Chieftain, Catalina, LeSabre, Wildcat, Super 88, Delmont 88, Delta 88, Monterey, Montclair, Capri, Premiere, Calais, etc., etc.). Besides, Plymouth had used the Savoy name for 14 years when the last American Savoy rolled off the line in July 1964 and 15 when the last Canadian Savoy was built in July, 1965. Would think 14 years is a little late in the game to whine about some car using the same name as your hotel.
Why must there be a conspiracy theory with every move Chrysler makes? Can people not accept the fact the marketing and advertising departments decided the name no longer had any consumer draw to it and thus was dropped?
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | You're espousing Occam's Razor, there, Bill (simplest reasoning is often the real-reason).
That may be true, but, in Corporate life, as in burocracies, a Camel is a horse created by a committee.---meaning
that there is a Right way, and a Wrong way, and the NAVY way to get something done....
I can't just see a corporate committe saying: " skrrooit, let's just leave the Savoy nameplate off of the car, to avoid
confusing or offending anyone, by having to expose its model name" (notwithstanding any widespread scandal, as if
the car model was called.....Dodge Demon, but, nevermind).
You said, above, that the cost to produce a "Plymouth" nameplate was probably more expensive than the cost to produce
just a "Savoy" nameplate (altho the 'Savoy' nameplate could have been continued to be produced in the style of a former year---
Chrysler did that very thing with the 'script' 1957 nameplates; in which-year-was-that : 59/60??, and, then there's the
famous re-popping of the 1957 Dodge door panels in miscellaneous 1959 Chryslers!)......so, PLY could have saved some
money by NOT having the 'Savoy' nameplates be (re-)issued, IF that "Plymouth" nameplate was used on other models, as well
as on the Savoys.
Edited by d500neil 2009-08-03 8:33 PM
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2009-08-03 5:30 PM
You're espousing Occam's Razor, there, Bill (simplest reasoning is often the real-reason).
That may be true, but, in Corporate life, as in burocracies, a Camel is a horse created by a committee.---meaning
that there is a Right way, and a Wrong way, and the NAVY way to get something done....
I can't just see a corporate committe saying: " skrrooit, let's just leave the Savoy nameplate off of the car, to avoid
confusing or offending anyone, by having to expose its model name" (notwithstanding any widespread scandal, as if
the car model was called.....Dodge Demon, but, nevermind).
You said, above, that the cost to produce a "Plymouth" nameplate was probably more expensive than the cost to produce
just a "Savoy" nameplate (altho the 'Savoy' nameplate could have been continued to be produced in the style of a former year---
Chrysler did that very thing with the 'script' 1957 nameplates; in which-year-was-that : 59/60??, and, then there's the
famous re-popping of the 1957 Dodge door panels in miscellaneous 1959 Chryslers!)......so, PLY could have saved some
money by NOT having the 'Savoy' nameplates be (re-)issued, IF that "Plymouth" nameplate was used on other models, as well
as on the Savoys.
Advertising and marketing work with one credo - SELL, SELL, SELL, SELL, SELL, etc., etc., etc.
So if a nameplate is viewed by the public in a negative way, it is either buried or eliminated. Besides, by putting "Plymouth" on the side of the cheapest car instead of "Savoy" you are taking the admirer's mind away from the fact that it is the cheapest Plymouth and to the fact that it is a Plymouth who make the Fury and Sport Fury models.
By the way, the absence of the Savoy nameplate was mirrored by the absence of a series nameplate on the lowest priced 1959-65 Chryslers.
The "Plymouth" nameplate on the 1962 Savoy front door was unique to the Savoy and used only in 1962. The 1963 "Plymouth" nameplate on the Savoy front fenders was used again on 1964 Savoy front fenders and nowhere else. So Chrysler could have just as easily tooled a Savoy nameplate. I say the "Savoy" would be cheaper as Savoy has 5 letters and Plymouth has 8. Less metal, less cost.
If the Savoy Hotel had problems with Chrysler using the Savoy name for its cheapest series, Chrysler would not have just dropped the nameplate from the car but would have dropped the Savoy name. Period. And would not have waited 14 years, either.
The 1957 Chrysler nameplates were not reused, although the basic theme was used over a number of years. I checked the parts books.
"...famous re-popping of the 1957 Dodge door panels in miscellaneous 1959 Chryslers" ????
Checked the part numbers for 1957-59 and cannot see where anything was "re-popped", although a fair number of stampings were continued from 1957 through 1959. For the Chrysler, only the 4-door hardtop doors changed for 1959 and were shared by Dodge and DeSoto.
Do not know what the kerfuffle is about the Dodge Demon. I was around at that time and never remember any problems with the name. I do know the sales were far below those of the Duster, actually plunging 40% in 1972, and Dodge was not happy about that. The name was changed to Sport for 1973 but sales never came close to that of the Duster and actually dropped slightly in 1973. However, at no time do I recall anyone mentioning any religious problems. There certainly was no scandal attached to it all. Today many writers attach some religious problems with marketing the "Demon" but in polite company the garbage they write is called "revisionist history".
No one it seems is willing to admit Dodge buyers were just not into buying a small sport coupe instead preferring the Swinger hardtop which always did better than its brother the Plymouth Scamp.
Besides, if was all that bad, why was the Demon sold for two years? One would think if that many people were upset with the thought of owning a car called the Demon a new nameplate would be on the car within a year, not two. The best year for the Demon/Sport? Its first - 1971.
Getting back to the Savoy. No, the problem with the Savoy is quite simple. There were no conspiracies, no threats of monstrous lawsuits by some hotel, and no 'bureautacracies' spending endless hours deciding how big the "S" should be. Most companies are not run day-to-day by committees but by departments and departments have heads. And it is the department heads who make the decisions before the board of directors approves everything for production. Names and emblems are generally influenced by the marketing people, naturally.
There are many right ways and infinite number of wrong ways. Decisions are not all black and white. The trick is choosing the most profitable right way and trust me, the Navy has nothing to do with it. Unless you want to sink a battleship.
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question for you '61 Plymouth experts
