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Regular
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Location: Munich, Germany | I've just realized that I've been a member of this forum for two and a half years now, so I guess it's time for an introduction. For those who don't like the blabber desert that's going to follow: There are pictures of my car below. :-)
Why am I here? Well, as it happened, in 1984 a 12 year old boy sneaked into a new movie that was for 16+ only and got terrified by a certain haunted car. This terror turned into a kind of Stockholm syndrome addiction ...
As these cars seemed out of reach, I concerned myself with Mopar in-laws first; this is my web site: AMC. I had to sell my Pacer and Eagle Kammback when I got married some ten years ago.
Then, Tulsarama happened, and articles about the event and "Miss Belvedere" triggered my Stockholm syndrome again. I found this forum, read countless threads, downloaded pictures, but a real 58 Plymouth seemed still out of reach. During that time, I found a new love, got a divorce, became a father, and finally stumbled over a 1959 Dodge Kingsway right around the corner from my home. While researching these models, I found a thread on this forum about this very car: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=27706
It turned out an overpriced bondo queen, but I saw that other Forward Look models are pretty, too, so I began to think about Plymouths with Dodge front clips or DeSotos. Proper Dodges, not so much, because I found the fins looked glued on and much preferred the fins of 57-58 Plymouth and all Forward Look DeSoto. This Kingsway, though, brought me into contact with venerable forum member Sisu who gave me valuable information and after a while offered me ... a 1957 Dodge Coronet 4-door sedan in incredible condition for too good a price to pass up. It's a "forum car", see this thread here: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=21074&...
So, after cognitive dissonance setting in that convinced me that a) Dodges are the upper-scale models, anyway and b) with this color those Dodge fins look amazing, I became the proud owner of my first Forward Look car in what I can only describe as the most pleasant money-for-car transaction I ever had. Thanks, Sisu!
Right now, the car is still stored at his place. It's a California car and I want to keep it away from all the road salt. It'll get a German registration, a brake job, and as soon as the weather allows, I'll pick it up. Can't wait!
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 444
Location: North of the 49th | Hi
Very nice intro.....WELCOME!!!! Thats a nice car, I'm sure it will bring you many years of joy! |
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Expert
Posts: 2612
 
Location: Parts Unknown | Welcome (seems like an odd thing to say to someone who has been a member for years !) GREAT looking car !!!! |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13059
 
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Welcome back home Wolfgang! If you meet that sorry excause for a Finnish refugee Sisu, tell him that we miss him here afterall!  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1049
Location: PL / EU | Your Dodge is very nice.
The interior jast beautiful!
I like the combination of black and red |
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Regular
Posts: 72
Location: Munich, Germany | Thank you all! I'm searching for a 1958 Plymouth front clip, preferrably in toreador red.
Kidding! There are more pictures of Stanley, as my fiancée named the car, here: http://mederle.de/Dodge/ |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 636
| Beautiful car . . congratulations!
Ask Cedric to put some air in that back tire.
Sparky |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...And, here, I thought that Cedric was going to get BURIED inside 'your' car (now), Wolfgang!
Your car is in VERY original condition, including its very-rare OEM rubber floor mats.
You might elect to install some sort of other-coverings over it, but please remember that they should not be removed
or messed with, because they are very valuable items, due to no one's re-manufacturing them.
Also, that rubber trunk mat is almost irreplaceable and may be fragile---you might apply about a 1/2 gallon
of some rubber-preservative to it, to try to soften it up and to protect its condition.
The front 'cardboard' kick panels are remade and sold by Gary Goers (garygoers.com), and someone has re-painted the upper
part of the steering wheel with that red paint.
Under that paint appears to be the OEM off-white upper color, so you might remove the steering wheel and apply some mild solvent
(like turpentine/mineral spirits) to remove that red paint, which is wearing/flaking off, anyway.
The steering wheel can be restored--I see its crack(s), on the original thread-posting, now--but it will not be cheap to do it correctly.
If you are looking for another project, to restore this car, its wheels were OEM-painted in an off-white color, that you may
be able to see, still applied onto its spare wheel.
The wheels were originally painted in a gray primer-sealer color, and the 'white' paint was applied around the outer area of
the wheel (apparently saving some of that paint from having been 'wasted', by not applying it, where anyone would see it,
hidden by the wheelcover).
After you might restore the wheels, their balance weights can be attached on the rear-side of the wheels, so that you will only
see the clean, unblemished outer rim area.
Also, please appreciate the low mileage of the car, and the fact that its brake pedal shows very little wear on it, which indicates
that the car was not driven very much in stop-and-go driving.
Congratulations on becoming this car's current caretaker-custodian!!
Edited by d500neil 2010-02-03 5:31 PM
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Regular
Posts: 72
Location: Munich, Germany | Neil, Cedric has decided he wants to be buried in his Sierra -- I'm pretty sure he'll never sell that one. I'm very happy to get this sedan. With a less well-preserved model I'd have thought of fitting an electric drivetrain later on (I expect those to be very usable in a few years), but this survivor will remain as original as possible. In reality it's even better than what the pictures show. The interior smell of such an unrestored, well looked-after vintage car, this combination of materials different from today, and age, is something that sends me back in time instantly. That's what I'm in this hobby for.
I've owned a similarly pristine old car before, a tailfin Mercedes, and in the end I sold it because I didn't want it go to waste as a daily driver, even if summers only. This car will only be taken for a ride when conditions are good. I'll drive it more than Cedric, though! (More than never, that is ...)
What I am considering to do:
- maybe (not decided yet) install seat belts. Laws here demand that children under the age of three only be transported in cars with appropriate safety seats installed, which would require those. Otherwise I'd have to wait almost three years until I could take the whole family anywhere with the car.
- apply (or have applied) professional rust-proofing. The undercoating has hardened in places and the floors begin to rust below the undercoating. The car won't see any salt and as little bad weather as possible, but still I think the steel quality I read much about on this forum would require this in our climate.
- new tires. Right size and probably even bias ply. I've never driven a car with bias ply tires, so I cannot tell how different the ride quality is compared to radials.
One thing that is a bit unfortunate is that it has the Powerflite, but that one will stay in, too. Cedric said it's not that much of a drag, I hope he's right. I don't want to win races with this car. Not all of them, anyway. ;-) I also want to restore the steering wheel (under the wrong red color it has cracks).
Thanks for all the information and suggestions. I've noted what you wrote on the old thread about the car already, and I'm sure I'll have many more questions once "Stanley" is really in my possession. |
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Expert
Posts: 1508
Location: new york | Black and Chrome! What could be better? Nice Dodge!!! Welcome back and Happy Motoring! Victor.. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Wolfgang; seatbelts are an excellent idea.
Snakeoyl(sp?) is the best known purveyor but, their belts have modern vinyl closure-buckles, which is/are fine, but not as kool
as the 50's/60's chrome-buckle ones.
There has ben a long drawn-out debate, on our 'seatbelt' message board, about how to install the seatbelts into/thru the floor pan.
What I have done, and my position is: I have had be chrome plated one large steel washer, which gets installed above the carpeting
and a similar standard-zinc-plated washer which gets installed below the floor pan.
I forget the gauge of the floor's steel, but, any collision-force which would cause the seat-attachment, and/or the seat-belts' attachment
(WITH the two washers spreading-out the mass/force of the inertia) to 'rip' OUT/through of the floor pan, GIVEN that there is an
independent box-steel perimeter frame under/around the car, is a collision-force that I do not necessarily WANT to survive!!!
Also, in a large single-belt collision impact event, there is a high likelihood that the occupants will "submarine" under/through
the seat belts, and end-up underneath the dash area, so that the precise manner of the belts' installation is not critically important.
The main benefit of seat belts is to keep the driver behind the steering wheel, and in control of the car for as long as possible, and,
to keep the car's occupants inside the vehicle.
New tires: ABSOLUTELY necessary.
There also are several impassioned threads on this subject, but I am an exponent of Diamondback radials.
Jim Hoek (on this site) decyphered the Euro-ratings of the D.-B. radials, and it turns out that they are (the ones for OUR
cars, anyway!!) are 'Trailer' rated, which means that they have a LARGE carrying-weight capacity (meaning very-stiff
sidewalls---and that is a GREAT thing, for general cornering/handling considerations, as I well know), and they can be
inflated to something like 55 P.S.I; I run mine at 42-ish, iirc.
The tires are made in Taiwan--yeah, I know...---but, they are wonderfully smooth and round and reliable tires, in the
correct diameter (your odometer will become scarilly-accurate!) and with a bullet-proof WWW, also in the correct width.
The 'other' downside is that they are pricey, like 180.00 each. But, their quality will be remembered and apprciated long
after their purchase price is forgotten.
As for the present (after-market "Ziebart") undercoating: leave it alone, except that you can freshen up its appearance by
applying rattle-can gloss black spray paint to it (and/or to the frame rails). You are not going to subject this car to any
real-world-winter driving; the black paint will seal up any small crackings in the undercoating.
The Powerflite is a much maligned trannie---by those who do not USE one. The P/Flite backed up a LOT of Hemi-cars,
before the introduction of the T/flite, and the mileage of the P/Flite is fine; because it's less complicated than the T/Flite,
it can live a long time before it needs any O/H work to be done on it.
Chubbies used their 2-speeds well into the 60's, right?
It will be perfectly fine for your cruising needs with this car.
[Going back to the seat belts; bad-editing, here!!] : You might look under the rear of the front seat, to see if there are a couple
'loop-holes' (I've seen them, on other cars) which are
attached to a part of the frame. Those round steel holes will show you where to drill the floor to mount the belts.
First thing, though: GET the belts, as the shorter 'male' end might be very-short, and it may dictate where the floor pan is to be
drilled. The male-end goes on outboard; the longer buckle-female-belt can flop around, on the seat, without falling onto the
rocker panel, like it will, if it's installed on the outboard side of the car.
The location of the drillings is dictated by the length of the shorter male-end, AND by the seat's movement.
You want to locate the male end belt's drilling so that, at the seat's farthest-FORWARD position there is still
enough of that belt, sticking out from the seat-back, so you can sit on the seat and still be able to fasten
the female end around your stomach and have it connect comfortably with the male end.....
...because, when you move the seat backwards, the (short-) male end will become even "shorter", as it gets retracted
'into' the seat, and, there will be less-and-less of it to connect the female end into.
So, where you drill for the male-end's insertion depends upon that belt's overall length, and the distance of the seat's total
fore-and-aft movement.
Sorry for the 'editing' SNAFU; PM me if you's like to .
Edited by d500neil 2010-02-03 9:26 PM
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Expert
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Location: Farnborough. Hampshire. England. | MadEarl - 2010-02-03 11:08 PM
What I am considering to do:One thing that is a bit unfortunate is that it has the Powerflite, but that one will stay in, too. [QUOTE ]
Put your mind at ease, there is NOTHING wrong with a P/flite, they are a very reliable trans..........
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Regular
Posts: 72
Location: Munich, Germany | Thank you all!
I've checked out the Diamondbacks. They look fine, but I'll probably have to get them directly from the States. All the vintage car tire dealers here seem to have mostly Coker tires, and quite pricey, too. These, from what I read, are of varying quality.
I keep forgetting that these engines have a lot of low-end torque -- the V8 in my BMW has a five-speed automatic transmission and needs it, too!
So, the plan for this year is to install chrome buckle seat belts, get new radials, and check if the Ziebart coating can be left alone. I'm a bit wary about that. I bought a 1976 Pacer from Switzerland once, and those had been factory ziebarted. Problem was that the coating had hardened and cracked, and the floor pans had to be largely replaced even though everything looked fine underneath ... |
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Expert
Posts: 1539
Location: Farnborough. Hampshire. England. | Wolfgang, can you get WAXOYL in Munich? WAXOYL is a far superior product than Ziebart, it's a spray on application that gets right into all the little knooks and crevices around the car's frame and underbody, but unlike Ziebart, it doesn't go hard, it sets as a firm wax coating so that you can still undo nuts and bolts etc. without having to chip it away like you would with Ziebart...
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Regular
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Location: Munich, Germany | Fred, it's funny you should mention Waxoyl -- I've just today stumbled over this product when I was searching for seat belt solutions online. They sell 2.5 liters with pump for €58. Or would you use the Waxoyl underbody seal for the floors? I'll not remove the Ziebart undercoating completely, just the parts that are cracked and come off easily, and replace it with something that stops the metal from rusting further plus protecting it from moisture. Could be that the stuff that's meant for cavities would be superior for the floor boards in that case, too.
Before I got your recommendation, I was thinking of something like Fertan (a rust converter) and then Mike Sander's Korrosionsschutzfett (corrosion protection fat). Dunno if these products are known outside Germany, but Waxoyl seems to be much easier to apply. Also, for the mentioned products I mostly have magazine articles that praise them, and magazines more often than not prove to be not completely free of biases that are somewhat ... encouraged. |
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Inactive by Request
Posts: 1292
Location: Lovely place | wizard - 2010-02-03 4:47 PM If you meet that sorry excause for a Finnish refugee Sisu, tell him that we miss him here afterall! :) You little Swedish lier  I'm happy Wolf visited our little town with his great (=Finnish!) wife and their new born baby! I was hoping he doesn't want the car, but seems he's been bitten by the FL bug - I had to give up... I would say we all are just preserving these cars for the next care taker - but like said, I will keep my two other 57 Dodge's until death... I had to sell the car since I have been so close of having a complete CNC machine shop, and now I had a chance to buy two big CNC machines, the other one is a huge 4-axle Milling Machine, and the other one a big Trumpf Laser cutter / Laser Welder with all the bells and whistles. Both machines are coming from a Laser laboratory(!) and they are like new having extremely low hours. As the laboratory accepted my offer for these machines, I would say this is a once in a life time opportunity which I couldn't pass. In a way its also good that I have less cars, as its hard to enjoy them all when the business requires 7 day work weeks, often reaching 16-18 hours per day. Everyone self employed knows what I'm talking about... Regarding the tires, I never gave them too much value - they are too modern and don't fit the style of the car at all. Everything else, I would keep it as it is and just enjoy it. Its totally unbelievable time machine, rides better than any other bodystyle, even the manual steering and brakes are great since their give a good feedback. I haven't driven too much with the Dodge, but I was very positively surprised when I drove it with the original 2-speed transmission - it fits the car perfectly. I know Wolf will have a great time with his family and the Dodge. Please don't change anything (except the seat belts you could fit), the car won't get any better - its only once original! I'm storing it here at my premises until you come to take it away, its protected by my new German Army bayonet so I its 100% safe  (One day I will take a photo showing all the Dodge's outside together, the last time...)
Edited by Sisu 2010-02-04 3:17 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13059
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Cedric! Long time no "see"! Nice to hear from you again. Great to hear that you made a bargain on the machines - that means that you'll have to program them for to repop FL parts for us! |
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Regular
Posts: 72
Location: Munich, Germany | Problem with leaving the undercoating alone is that I'm not a museum. If the Dodge would only be stored away, I'd keep everything as is. But as I'm planning to drive it, something's got to give. I'd rather give it a good albeit not original rust-proofing than to start welding five years down the road -- and cracked undercoating is worse than none at all.
Actually, I rather think it's a sacrilege to install seat belts, but that's a must, unfortunately.
Cedric, once your 2-door hardtop is finished, I promise to come down with the sedan to take a photo of the black trio. If we don't meet again before that. When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain? <-- That's where the rust-proofing comes in. :-) |
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Inactive by Request
Posts: 1292
Location: Lovely place | Yeah Wizardmouse! I guess the right way to start producing these parts is to first set up a good and friendly customer service, excellent communications, great website with on-line shopping, keep the dates and schedules and charge reasonably, then create the products to original specs or better. Not too many companies like that exist in this business  Oh, better stop dreaming!
Actually I could do most of the parts for our cars, excluding chroming (here impossible due to EC legislation) if it was financially viable. I have all manual tools & machines, all sheetmetal tools, welders, cutters, big paint room, Soda/Sand Blasting room, various other machines, excellent relations to local foundry (300 years old company), and now these last CNC-machines complete the shop (I already had a good sized CNC lathe). I have been buying and collecting all these in the last 8 years time making a lot of sacrifices in my private life to make it all possible. If my business will eventually fail I can say I at least tried. I never took any loans from the bank so everything I have is mine. Not all is shining new, but then in excellent mechanical condition. Too bad it doesn't make sense to produce parts for FL's in here, would be great to combine this hobby and work together...
So now you know why I let this beauty out of my hands - I will feel a sting in my heart everytime I think I sold it - but on the other hand, I sold it to Wolf who's a great guy and will certainly be the right owner for it.
Now I will cry myself to sleep... Good Night, Irene.
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Inactive by Request
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Location: Lovely place | MadEarl - 2010-02-04 10:20 PM Cedric, once your 2-door hardtop is finished, I promise to come down with the sedan to take a photo of the black trio. If we don't meet again before that. When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain? <-- That's where the rust-proofing comes in. :-) Wolf, I hope you're coming here sooner - to pick-up your "new" Dodge Would be great to organize such meeting, but not in rain! I avoid rain at all costs with my Dodge's...
Ok, this time you can redo the undercoating, I admit its a good option since its not a good thing when water gets trapped between the floor sheetmetal and old undercoating... Not too many 57 Dodge's you can say they have never been welded, or have rust  If you take good care, why would things change in the next 53 years...?
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Inactive by Request
Posts: 1292
Location: Lovely place | Btw, good idea to listen what Neil is talking. He's got quite a long experience with these great cars...
Now Wolf - you need a black suit. |
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Regular
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Location: Munich, Germany | Sisu - 2010-02-04 10:34 PM
Wolf, I hope you're coming here sooner - to pick-up your "new" Dodge
Heh, right. :-) And to drool over your new machinery! |
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Location: Munich, Germany | Sisu - 2010-02-04 10:38 PM
Btw, good idea to listen what Neil is talking. He's got quite a long experience with these great cars...
Now Wolf - you need a black suit.
Neil sure is one of the people who make this forum such a great resource.
And I do need to buy a couple of suits now ... my new job is in technical sales. I have only one suit, and that fit before I gave up smoking. ;-) |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Wolf, you will not regret buying the Diamondback radials---OR--the correct Goodyear Super Cushion bias plys.
The new Goodyears will have fresh/soft/modern rubber compounding, which will perform very nicely, under normal
driving conditions, and, the car will look 'right' wearing them, too.
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Not quite new member introduction
