|
|
Regular
Posts: 81
Location: Akron, Ohio | I recently bought another project. It a 1957 Desoto Fireflite. The owner told me her husband was a test driver for Chrysler and drove prototypes. He bought it for her in 1957 and was required not to sell it for a year. She drove it until 1964 and then it was parked in their garage since 1964 until I bought it on ebay. The fireflite has the usual rocker and fender rust but the interesting things are the VIN numbers and engine numbers. They do not conform to the usual numbering for the year. Do you out there know anything about the numbers? The engine numbe is S26- 991196 and the VIN number is 9999843. Odd isn't it
 (Desoto Fireflite Forward Look 3.jpg)
 (Desoto Fireflite Forward Look 2.jpg)
 (Desoto Fireflite Forward Look 1.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 Desoto Fireflite Forward Look 3.jpg (98KB - 236 downloads)
Desoto Fireflite Forward Look 2.jpg (83KB - 228 downloads)
Desoto Fireflite Forward Look 1.jpg (93KB - 250 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 180
Location: san ramon, CA | Being a prototype you might have a special car there!... |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
 
Location: bishop, ca | Duncan, you can, (obviously!!!) write to the CORP; & hopefully get a copy of the IBM Build-card, on your car.
Dunno where CHRY/Sotos "hid" the car's Broadcast Sheet, but on Dodges, they've been found scotch-taped up/behind the glove box, AND (@ least, on L.A. built cars) folded into 'thirds' and placed (thrown?) onto the front floor pan, underneath the carpeting.
There is a good chance that your car's Broadcast Sheet may still exist, somewhere inside it.
As a Proto-car, there is a definite possibility that a CONSIDERABLE amount of its parts/fitments are different from the "production" models.
You should consider photographing extensively any tear-down procedures on this car, to document the way that the factory (HAND???-) assembled the car; if it WAS a ---CAN'T think of that term!!!---pre-production/test-assembly hand-built model!
Too bad it's not in better condition, which might warrant its preservation, as-is, but, it looks too 'beat', to me, not to restore it! |
|
| |
|
Board Moderator
Posts: 3186
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | Neil...
Prototypes like that are referred to as "pilot" cars.
They can be used for several purposes, but most were used to check fitment for various options on vehicles, or to evaluate the difference in different vendors of parts.
Also, these are generally the vehicles that the marketing arm uses for photo shhots for the brochures.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 101
Location: Walhalla, ND | Interesting. From my experience most of Chrysler's experimental/prototype cars always had serial numbers that started with "99" -- although all the other ones I've seen have been six digits, this seven digit number "fits the pattern". |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2932
Location: Lemoore CA | I watched this car on ebay, glad to see that a member here was able to buy it. darn that rust, do you intend to restore it? I have an attraction to green cars of the late 50's, especially light green. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | It also appears that it never had the humongous DeSoto hood badge installed...!
 (Desoto_Fireflite_Forward_Look_3.jpg)
 (jmancino_s26_front.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
Desoto_Fireflite_Forward_Look_3.jpg (98KB - 218 downloads)
jmancino_s26_front.jpg (29KB - 202 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | If this car is a pilot vehilce, I doubt there will be a build record for it as it was not a production vehicle - ie, not meant for sale to the public. And if Chrysler Historical does check the VIN, it is not going to come back as a 1957 DeSoto.
Serial numbers 9 999 751 through 9 999 919 were used on 1930-32 Dodge Trucks, 2-ton and 3-ton models, engineering code Z-1 and Z-2. Serial number 9 999 843 appears to be the 93rd Z1/Z2 built.
The engine number is also strange - S26- 991196. Production numbers ran from S16-1001 to S26-29541. 991196 seems to be number 1196 (196th engine) with a "99" added.
Have you checked for the frame serial number? I believe on the late 1950's Mopar cars it was stamped on the frame, right side, just ahead of the front spring hanger for the rear leaf spring. Hopefully it was stamped on the side - some have been found on top of the frame. Preivosly the S/N was stamped on the right hand chassis rail up front.
The engine number was stamped on the left side of the frame, either behind the front axle or ahead of the rear axle. If course, this being a pilot vehicle, neither may have been stamped on the car.
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Well, Duncan , the first place to start IS with the Historical Society; did you ever contact them, since last October?
The interesting things that I see, on the front end, are the lack of the hood trim, but also the argent-colored headlight
"buckets" (the single-headlights, of course) , but also the presence of apparent "black-out" paint applied to the core
support area.
On some prototype cars, the factory painted them in white, so that the engineers could put them up on a lighted stage
and figure out what should receive the black-out paint.
Your car may be a hand-built Pilot Car, but, the 93rd one(beginning when) ?
Is there no Paint/Trim data plate, on its firewall area?
Step one: contact the Historical Society, with as much info as you can supply to them.
|
|
| |
|
Location: Under the X in Texas | Pilot cars were not built in any significant quantity. The parts for the new model year either fit or they didn't, got fixed, and production began. For example the 300Cs had about three to five pilot cars. Two (#s 1 and 2) were built in Sept. of '56, one in October (#3), none in November and then production began in December (with car #4). Of course the Cs were introduced late compared to the rest of the model line so most of the parts were fitted earlier on NYers, Saratogas, other body styles. There may have been more pilots in those cars.
But a point here is that all of the C pilot cars had production VIN numbers to begin the VIN series. 3N57 1001 was a convertible and a pilot car because the convertible was being introduced to the 300 model offering. 3N57 1002 was a standard production coupe. 3N57 1003 was a coupe and a stick shift 390HP package race car so they needed to verify all that package of parts would work. Since 50 300Cs were assembled in December it is probably safe to say that they were all production cars. This whole process is sometimes referred to as "ramping up production".
Now on the 99 or 999 thing. "99" at Chrysler was almost exclusively used to indicate "special engineering". There was at one time a "999" engineering book with specifics of what went into those special cars. That book disappeared from the factory several decades ago. Cars like the one-off '55 Imperial convertible (which has a VIN starting 999..) were in that book.
I owned a special order '57 Adventurer convertible purchased by a plant employee at the Dodge assembly plant in southern California. It had no ornamentation on the hood whatsoever, not even lettering and other oddities like a limited slip differential and BOTH dash and steering wheel clocks.
I believe this DeSoto to be some special engineering car. It is up to the owner to find out what is SPECIAL about the car.
Wayne Graefen
author: '57 DeSoto Adventurer Handbook |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | HIYA, Wayne!
Didn't recognize your new "countenance" !!!!
Yeperoonie; Duncan needs to contact the H. S, & get the IBM card copy from there.
The Paint/Trim plate would be nice to see; I forget if Duncan checked up/behind the glove box, or, even under the carpeting,
to see if the Broadcast (or, any other documents) might be found in those locations.
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 709
Location: Poznan, Poland, Europe | I nearly forgot this DeSoto sits here  but I see there were no new news from the owner. Thanks for interesting and mysterious data about the "99-numbered" cars. I was rather expecting that they crushed such pilot cars, the same way as they usually didn't care about concept cars. |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Chrysler did not, as a general-rule (unlike Generic Motors, & Fart) destroy their concept cars.
the Slant-6 "XNR" was reportedly hijacked by the Iraquis, out of Kuwait, during the 1991 war-thing, but, as far as I know, its subsequent whereabouts in unknown.
I sure wish Duncan would get the car's IBM card-copy, from the H.S. .
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 709
Location: Poznan, Poland, Europe | Oh, that's good they saved the concepts :D We've got more material to study. |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | And, as most of us know, a significant number of Chrysler's concept cars, at least thru the late 60's-early 70's, were allowed to get out of corporate ownership, one way or the other, and into private ownership.
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 81
Location: Akron, Ohio | I hadn't checked this thread for awhile. Sorry guys. I am going to the check the Desoto tomorrow for a build sheet behind the glove box and look under the carpet tomorrow. I will let you know if I find anything. I will also get off my butt and send in the information to the Chrysler H S and see what I can find. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 143
Location: Atlanta, GA | I have a 61 Newport that was a special order car that has the shipping order number 0501 8888. I understand that the 0501 means May 1, but what was the number protocol for the next four digits. I have understood that they were normally random. Odds are phenomenal against random numbers resulting in 8888. Does this denote a special order (in decoding Galen Govier referred to it as a special order code)? Does anyone know how these numbers were assigned. Has anyone seen all four digits the same? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | 61Newport413 - 2008-01-09 11:50 AM
I have a 61 Newport that was a special order car that has the shipping order number 0501 8888. I understand that the 0501 means May 1, but what was the number protocol for the next four digits. I have understood that they were normally random. Odds are phenomenal against random numbers resulting in 8888. Does this denote a special order (in decoding Galen Govier referred to it as a special order code)? Does anyone know how these numbers were assigned. Has anyone seen all four digits the same?
Apparently the first digit had something to do with the model / series of the car being built. The remainder was a sequential number, starting at 001. So, your car is the 888th placed in line for production.
Chrysler generally used "999" for special order items.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 143
Location: Atlanta, GA | Thanks Chryco, but some clarification is needed. The VIN is 8113176736. The first four digits identify it as a 1961 Chrysler Newport assembled at the Jefferson plant. The next six show the car was the 76,736th built that production year.
I am asking about the Shipping Order Number found on the Fender Data Tag, IBM card, and Broadcast sheet. It is 0501 8888. First four numbers are the order date (May 1). All the SO numbers I have seen for the last four appear random. In decoding the car Galen Govier and Gil Cunninham say they have never seen all four the same and surmise that it means a special order. Gil has a special "only one" 60 300F painted Blue with Blue leather and the SO begins with 8 and the next three numbers appear random. His and mine are the only he has seen that begin with 8. He also states that often 8 was used for special order like the 888 interior trim, which mine has. Mine also came with Goodyear Bluestreak tires and the IBM card shows the tires as 99 (special order).
My real question remains, how were the second set of four numbers assigned in the Shipping Order Number and has anyone seen a Shipping Order number will all four numbers the same? |
|
| |
Fireflite Prototype -- Need decoding for VIN and Engine numbers
