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Location: Gansevoort, NY | Howdy, everyone. My '56 Savoy (277 w/ Powerflite) has intermittent misfires, but generally runs nicely for cruising. However, if too much throttle is applied, the car coughs, then jerks forward, coughs, jerks, etc. Do you think this is an ignition problem, fuel problem, or something else? Cruising is fine, and this only happens if I floor it while cruising. But, the big problem is hill climbing. Because I can't give it full throttle when going up hills, I end up starting at 60mph at the bottom and ending up at 35mph at the top. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!  |
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Location: Big pimpin' | You don't mention what parts (Ignition) that you have already replaced chasing this problem, but Sounds more like a fuel/Carb related problem to me...If your idling and "pat" the gas, does it stumble? If so, sounds like a carb Accel. pump bad to me...
Edited by dukeboy 2009-06-19 11:11 PM
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Regular
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | It stumbles a little bit, but not too bad. I just got the car in January, and it ran terrible when I got it. I cleaned out the distributor and carb, replaced the plugs (Autolite Platinum), points, rotor, vacuum advance pod, and battery. The more I drive it, the better it runs. I just Sea Foamed it and changed the oil/filter, too. It does have an electric fuel pump, as well. I have tried running it with the vacuum advance disconnected...no change.
Edited by kinglrock 2009-06-19 11:22 PM
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Location: Big pimpin' | When you say "Cleaned out" the carb, I'm assuming all you did was spray something down the bbls?ie: Did NOT open/rebuild it? Maybe your fuel tank/filter has the same problem?
Edited by dukeboy 2009-06-19 11:32 PM
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Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | Just for sh!ts and giggles re-check your points gap. |
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Regular
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | Points gap is checked and good at 18. I actually took the carb and distributor apart and cleaned everything inside of each. I would assume that the filter in the tank is probably pretty nasty, though. There is no filter on the carb end for whatever reason. I suppose that could have allowed some junk to enter the carb after I cleaned it. Hmmm...
Edited by kinglrock 2009-06-20 9:55 AM
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Location: Connecticut | It sounds like a carb issue. When you had the carb disassembled, it would have been a good idea to rebuild it. It's amazing how well our cars run with a freshly rebuilt carb that is set to factory spec. FWIW, I don't see the need for an electric fuel pump. The mechanical pump works fine. |
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Location: Big pimpin' | You also need an inline filter right before the carb too...You've prolly pumped alot of crud up into that fresh carb....
Edited by dukeboy 2009-06-21 2:17 PM
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Location: Warren, Michigan | If your tank is full of crud, why not drop it and get it boiled out at a local radiator shop? You can replace the snare on the pickup while you're at it. I agree that you should put an inline filter before the carb for sure. |
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | The electric fuel pump is there from the previous owner. My guess is that the mechanical pump went bad and he couldn't find a replacement, though I see them on Ebay quite often. The fuel lines are steel that have a flare and nut that goes right into the carb. I will have to cut it back, put in a hose and filter and nipple. Thanks for the help, guys. I'll let you know how I make out. |
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Location: Big pimpin' | I would caution buying even an NOS fuel pump off E-pay....While it might be NOS, it's a wear part and often isn't worth it because the seals/diaphram is dry rotted and just as bad as the one you have..... |
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Location: Tampa, Florida | You didn't say if you replaced the plug wires. Old plug wires with high resistance can produce those symptoms also. A voice of experience. |
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| kinglrock - 2009-06-19 11:01 PM
Howdy, everyone. My '56 Savoy (277 w/ Powerflite) has intermittent misfires, but generally runs nicely for cruising. However, if too much throttle is applied, the car coughs, then jerks forward, coughs, jerks, etc. Do you think this is an ignition problem, fuel problem, or something else? Cruising is fine, and this only happens if I floor it while cruising. But, the big problem is hill climbing. Because I can't give it full throttle when going up hills, I end up starting at 60mph at the bottom and ending up at 35mph at the top. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! :)
Check the timing with a timing light, sounds off..... |
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Location: Connecticut | If it were timing, then the problem would be consistent, not intermittent. |
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| ronbo97 - 2009-06-23 11:44 PM
If it were timing, then the problem would be consistent, not intermittent.
Sounds like it's only acting up under heavy throttle . . . so maybe a timing problem is only evident under vacuum induced advance? Or maybe the vacuum advance itself is the problem.
Sparky |
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | Plug wires are brand new. Timing is right on. With vacuum advance disconnected it performs the same way... |
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Location: Big pimpin' | Again, Fuel related................... |
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | I forgot earlier, but there is a filter in the electric fuel pump which I checked and is flowing freely. So, I don't think there is any gunk in the carb...
Also, I pulled all the plugs to check them out...they are all clean and white, just like they were when I put them in new a few months ago. This would suggest a lean condition, right? If so, any thoughts on how to correct it? Drill larger jets, maybe?
Edited by kinglrock 2009-06-25 9:29 AM
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | What a day.... While driving the Savoy, I got two backfires (one from each side) and the engine stopped. I pulled the cap off the distributor to find that the ground wire had broken off the points set. I had to tape it temporarily to make it to a friend's shop a few miles away. When I got there, we soldered it. One problem fixed...
However, the car is running worse than ever today. It used to be I couldn't accerlerate hard, but now it seems that if any kind of load is put on the engine it coughs and has no power, but emits a very low rumbling from the exhaust. It's pretty much not driveable... |
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Location: Big pimpin' | kinglrock - 2009-06-24 10:28 PM
I forgot earlier, but there is a filter in the electric fuel pump which I checked and is flowing freely. So, I don't think there is any gunk in the carb...
Also, I pulled all the plugs to check them out...they are all clean and white, just like they were when I put them in new a few months ago. This would suggest a lean condition, right? If so, any thoughts on how to correct it? Drill larger jets, maybe?
A lean condition doesn't mean you don't have enough carb nessesarily....It could mean that the carb is NOT putting the correct amount of fuel in the engine.......You seem to think that the carb is NOT the problem since you;ve been into it...I'd check it again just to be on the sure side....Maybe floats set wrong?, I've seen Stopped up venturi cause your problem....Try htis to be sure bout the carb...Try running the engine with your foot on the brake and the car in gear with LIGHT throttle to simulate driving on a hill...DO NOT od this for long, as the trans will over heat, but get yourself a can of Carb cleaner and give it a snort when it starts to act up...If it smooths out, then the carb has something wrong with it...
Edited by dukeboy 2009-06-25 9:36 PM
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Location: Connecticut | It's your carb. That's where your problem is. Just because you took it apart and sprayed carb cleaner in it doesn't mean it's OK. Get the proper rebuild kit and go to work on it. Problem is likely to be accelerator pump. Also check that pump travel is up to spec.
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| ronbo97 - 2009-06-26 12:12 AM
It's your carb. That's where your problem is. Just because you took it apart and sprayed carb cleaner in it doesn't mean it's OK. Get the proper rebuild kit and go to work on it. Problem is likely to be accelerator pump. Also check that pump travel is up to spec.
Yep, rebuild or replace the carb, you can try setting the carg for maximum vacuum with a vacuum gauge and see how it does, if it still acts faulty replace or rebuild. I just replaced my old Carter with a new Edelbrock.... |
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | OK, so where do I get a rebuild kit for my carb? I'm not totally sure which carb I have because the tag is missing. I know it's a Carter, Ball & Ball, and is supposed to be a 2409S, going by the book. But, all I have are some casting numbers: O-1023, 6-1065. Can anyone help with this? Thank you! |
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| kinglrock - 2009-06-28 12:03 PM
OK, so where do I get a rebuild kit for my carb? I'm not totally sure which carb I have because the tag is missing. I know it's a Carter, Ball & Ball, and is supposed to be a 2409S, going by the book. But, all I have are some casting numbers: O-1023, 6-1065. Can anyone help with this? Thank you!
Go here and search for your carb.... the 2409 number sounds right, mine was a 24....something..... like 2406
A direct replacement carb would be the Edelbrock 1406 for $199..... if you want a new one.
http://www.carburetor.ca/
Edited by 59CRL 2009-06-28 1:14 PM
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | The Edelbrock 1406 is a 4bbl (which I would love if I had a 4bbl manifold), but I have a 2bbl. And, not being sure it's original to the vehicle, I don't know if it is, in fact, a 2409S. How would I know what to order? Also, is there anything in the carb kits besides gaskets and seals? |
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| kinglrock - 2009-06-28 2:46 PM
The Edelbrock 1406 is a 4bbl (which I would love if I had a 4bbl manifold), but I have a 2bbl. And, not being sure it's original to the vehicle, I don't know if it is, in fact, a 2409S. How would I know what to order? Also, is there anything in the carb kits besides gaskets and seals?
Ok, 2 barrel.... there should be a new needle valve and seat in the rebuild kit, this is the most important piece
in the kit, gaskets too..... look for the kit when you order it, it will have everything you need to rebuild the carb. |
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Location: bradenton florida | kinglrock - 2009-06-25 7:18 PM
What a day.... While driving the Savoy, I got two backfires (one from each side) and the engine stopped. I pulled the cap off the distributor to find that the ground wire had broken off the points set. I had to tape it temporarily to make it to a friend's shop a few miles away. When I got there, we soldered it. One problem fixed...
However, the car is running worse than ever today. It used to be I couldn't accerlerate hard, but now it seems that if any kind of load is put on the engine it coughs and has no power, but emits a very low rumbling from the exhaust. It's pretty much not driveable...
Before you buy a carb check the firing order. Backfires and a loud rumble sound from the exhaust make me think the wires are not on the right plugs. it will run but will be down on power as some cylinders are working against the others. |
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | The wires are on the right plugs. |
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Location: Connecticut | Two sources for rebuild kits are Andy Birnbaum (www.oldmoparts.com) and Daytona Carburetor (www.daytonaparts.com/). They supply kits with modern gaskets that resist the alcohol in modern fuels. Kit will cost about $50. Ron
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | OK, so via Carlisle, PA, I now have a '57 dual quad setup for my '56 Savoy. Does anyone have any suggestions about tuning these things? Is there anything I should know before I swap out the old 2bbl setup? Thanks! |
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Just a thought here, before installing the the troublesome dual quad set up shouldn't you get the car running right the way it sits? To set the idle you need a vacuum gage for idle mixture adjustments and also properly set up the linkages and throttle linkage to the trans. |
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Location: Slidell La. | Check and follow the fuel line from the tank to the carb , you said your filter looked good , but it sounds like a blocked filter . I had one and was chasing the electrical side when it would pop and sputter under acceleration , and then out of the blue it would do the same . Sometimes it would run fine then start choking filter was totally blocked up . I agree with Shep , you need to find problem at hand before you compound the problem you have with a new problem . |
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | I put a brand new filter in the line just before the carb. After running it for a few weeks, it's still clean as can be. |
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Location: Blythewood, SC | kinglrock - 2009-06-25 7:18 PM
What a day.... While driving the Savoy, I got two backfires (one from each side) and the engine stopped. I pulled the cap off the distributor to find that the ground wire had broken off the points set. I had to tape it temporarily to make it to a friend's shop a few miles away. When I got there, we soldered it. One problem fixed...
However, the car is running worse than ever today. It used to be I couldn't accerlerate hard, but now it seems that if any kind of load is put on the engine it coughs and has no power, but emits a very low rumbling from the exhaust. It's pretty much not driveable...
Have you replaced these points yet? Your repair won't cut it to save a $5 part.
Have you replaced the condensor?
Do you have a ballast between the coil and the points? I ruined several sets of points running without one.
Do the advance weights move freely and smoothly when the distributor is out of the car? They sound like they have bound up and are not advacning thus ruining your power under load.
Are you CERTAIN your vacuum advance is holding vacuum and is functioning freely?
You do not have a fuel issue. It is electrical. |
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Location: Gansevoort, NY | These points (and condenser) are a new set. The soldered connection is way better than the lousy crimp the set came with that gave way. Yes, I do have a ballast between the coil and points. I disassembled the distributor, cleaned everything, and all moves freely. The vacuum pod is also new, as the old one was bad.
I, too, suspect the distributor weights are perhaps binding for some reason, even though they moved freely when I had the distributor out of the car. I have decided to convert to a MP electronic setup very soon. I will keep you posted once I get it and install it. |
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| kinglrock - 2009-07-12 8:46 PM
These points (and condenser) are a new set. The soldered connection is way better than the lousy crimp the set came with that gave way. Yes, I do have a ballast between the coil and points. I disassembled the distributor, cleaned everything, and all moves freely. The vacuum pod is also new, as the old one was bad.
I, too, suspect the distributor weights are perhaps binding for some reason, even though they moved freely when I had the distributor out of the car. I have decided to convert to a MP electronic setup very soon. I will keep you posted once I get it and install it.
The electronic ignition upgrade for the distributer is a good upgrade to do. It makes a noticeable difference.
Maybe thats the problem, dont know.... your problem sounds like carburetion to me.... try adjusting the
carb using a vacuum gauge, that will make a big difference also..... so may people say I adjusted it by
sound or by ear and that really isnt close enough.... especially on timing and the carb. |
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Location: bradenton florida | I agree with the vacuum gauge. It will show lots of problems. I'm thinking your valves may be sticking open. I'm not failure with this engine. Does it have solid lifters? Or maybe an intake gasket leak. try spraying starting fluid around the intake gaskets and see if it revs up. |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | three things-------------is the choke opening properly------------is the heat riser opening properly---------------what do you have the mixture screws set at on carb--------------------------------------------later
ps. might as well go for four--------------------check for vacuum leaks |
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | I have gotten kits from this place and have been very happy with them:
http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Carbshop_kits.htm
K. |
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Regular
Posts: 62
Location: Gansevoort, NY | I finallly got it running right!!!  Dukeboy got it right...it ended up being the float setting. Thank you all for your help!
Now, if I could only find the correct rearend for my car... |
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Location: Big pimpin' | SWEET "Kinglrock" This 'ol Hillbilly comes in handy sometimes.... |
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Ignition, Carb, or ???
