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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | I have a chance at a Kiekhaefer aluminum dual quad intake manifold for my 315 Poly at $1,100. Or I can go with the Offenhauser dual quad for $300. Or, the 3 duece set up for about $1,500, or a single 4bbl manifold if I can ever find one, I think the last one sold on eBay for about $325. The Kiekaefer is a lot of cash, but when do you ever find one? $1,100 is some big cash. I got outbid on this one, but the original buyer flacked I guess, so I have a 2nd chance offer at $1,100 (by 10am on the 15th tomorrow morning!) Thanks, Jay
Edited by jsrail 2009-10-15 1:05 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: STL, MO | the 6bbl set up is complete at 1500 right? The NASCAR intake would be cool if you had a stock car clone but otherwise it would one expensive piece of engine jewelery that not enough people would appreciate it at car shows and certainly couldn't be considered cost effective power wise as you would have issues port matching it or altering it in any way (milling or extrude hone) I am no fan of strombergs, webers, rochesters,SU's or any of those weak sister, leaking, asthmatic POS carbs so the six barrell would be out for me, I like induction roar that swivels peoples heads a block away so the Offy's my pick, providing the single four set up is an oem piece....IMHO |
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Handygun - 2009-10-14 10:21 PM the 6bbl set up is complete at 1500 right? The NASCAR intake would be cool if you had a stock car clone but otherwise it would one expensive piece of engine jewelery that not enough people would appreciate it at car shows and certainly couldn't be considered cost effective power wise as you would have issues port matching it or altering it in any way (milling or extrude hone) I am no fan of strombergs, webers, rochesters,SU's or any of those weak sister, leaking, asthmatic POS carbs so the six barrell would be out for me, I like induction roar that swivels peoples heads a block away so the Offy's my pick, providing the single four set up is an oem piece....IMHO The Offy I was looking at is a dual quad intake. Are you talking about using a single 4bbl intake?
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Jay, My vote would be for the offenhauser or a single 4bbl if you can find it. That is what I am going to put on mine. Greg 56 Dodge
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | 56RoyalLancer - 2009-10-14 10:31 PM Jay, My vote would be for the offenhauser or a single 4bbl if you can find it. That is what I am going to put on mine. Greg 56 Dodge Are talking about the dual quad Offy? Did Offy make a single 4bbl intake for these?
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Jay, I believe that offy did make a single 4bbl intake for the 315. The one I am putting on mine is the original power pack option intake for the 315. I will see if I can find a picture of the offy. I might have one. |
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | 56RoyalLancer - 2009-10-14 10:39 PM Jay, I believe that offy did make a single 4bbl intake for the 315. The one I am putting on mine is the original power pack option intake for the 315. I will see if I can find a picture of the offy. I might have one. That would be great! I've never seen an Offy single 4bbl intake for the dodge 315/325, I didn't now they made one. I'm waiting to find out if a guy here has a stock 4bbl intake, he said he thought he had one, but we'll see.
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin | If you put on the stock single 4bbl, consider putting different weights in the distributor as well. The original power pack cars had a different distributor setup IBJ4303B. I got lucky and found the original distributor but I know you can adjust the stock one to be setup similar. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: STL, MO | I agree w/ Greg a well tuned single 4 would be best providing it's an aftermarket intake but the 2-4 set-up would probably out perform (horsepower wise) the oem 4bbl. There is a guy who sets up a tent at all the vintage swap meet-nostalgia drag type events here in the midwest that I go to, he has hundreds of vintage intakes he shouldnt be too hard to find, you could try Ken Jack in KC 816-918-2181. |
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | The benefit to a single 4bbl is that I have a stock built 315 (bored .30 over is all) so I shouldn't have to pull the cam and have it reground. It's taken the shop 2 years to finish my rebuild and I don't want to wait any longer! lol A dual quad would probably starve without a cam regrind?
Edited by jsrail 2009-10-15 1:53 AM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: STL, MO | Then you should stick with a single 4 and oem is fine just heavy, My 392 has been at the machine shop so long any new customer who gets the "tour" there ooh's and aah's over it, I should be charging publicity fees, but thats ok Im in no hurry it's winter....again |
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | 56RoyalLancer - 2009-10-14 10:46 PM If you put on the stock single 4bbl, consider putting different weights in the distributor as well. The original power pack cars had a different distributor setup IBJ4303B. I got lucky and found the original distributor but I know you can adjust the stock one to be setup similar. Does anyone make an electronic unit for these? I heard Petronix doesn't make them. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 608
Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Jay, I was wrong. I can't find reference to a single 4bbl offy. Here is the information from my friend and fellow forward look member Dave H.
Intake Manifold: Offenhauser (213-225-1307), dual 4 bbl (P/N 3614), still available new. These were available in late 56 and were used for 57 Super D500s with factory dual quads. Offy also has a 3x2 manifold. These also fit 315/325 Poly engines. The 1956 factory dual quad, P/N 1733878, is very rare and not as good as the Offy, which replaced it in 1957. I port matched the intake runners to the head ports.
Also some information on the distributor setup.
Ignition: stock distributor # IBK 4301A, dual point (this has the most conservative factory advance curve of any '55 - '57 Mopar): initial = 2 deg mech = 19 deg total (3 deg @ 850 rpm, 10 deg @ 1500 rpm, 19 deg @ 4800 rpm) vacuum = 23 deg (starts @ 7.5 in Hg, full @ 17 in Hg) total = 44 deg ( the 56 315 - 2 bbl is 60 deg) point gap = .017 Dwell (dual points) = 36-39 deg.; single points = 30 deg.
Suggested advance curve changes (much peppier at low and midrange RPM):
* 1. Distributor cam & plate from IBJ 4301 (56 Dodge/Ply 270 V8) = 30 deg total mech advance.
* 2. Initial timing = 5 deg (The goal is 35 degrees total mechanical advance for maximum performance).
* 3. Remove "heavy" advance spring, replace with light spring from IBJ 4301 for faster advance
(remaining original "light" spring is about the same as other heavy springs).
Reaches full mechanical advance at 3100 rpm. Actual test data:,7 deg initial: 20 @ 1500 rpm, 25 @ 2000,
29 @ 2500, 33 @ 3000, 34 (maxed out) @ 3100.
* 4. Vacuum chamber (controls travel limit) Autolite # IAZ 2023RF, (56 Dodge 315 Poly 4 bbl)
= 16 deg. (Most vacuum chambers for other 55 - 57 Mopar engines have more degrees of travel.
The range is from 8 to 26 degrees.)
or # IAZ 2023RB (55 Dodge 270 Hemi) = 14 deg.
Because we have added more mechanical advance, some of the advance needs to be removed
from the vacuum advance, to avoid excessive advance and detonation. The goal is about 50
degrees combined mechanical and vacuum.
5. Vacuum adv spring (controls adv rate): most are quicker rates than original D500, need to experiment.
* I used one from a 55 Dodge Poly 270 (starts @ 5.2 in. Hg, full @ 11 in Hg, when used with the vacuum chamber above).
The 56 Dodge Poly 315 - 4 bbl distributor, IBJ 4303B, is very close to the above combination, but is fairly uncommon to find. Specs are:
initial timing = 4 deg
mech adv = 30 deg (also has a much faster curve than D500)
vacuum = 16 deg (starts @ 5.5 in. Hg)
total = 50 deg
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Handygun - 2009-10-14 11:00 PM Then you should stick with a single 4 and oem is fine just heavy, My 392 has been at the machine shop so long any new customer who gets the "tour" there ooh's and aah's over it, I should be charging publicity fees, but thats ok Im in no hurry it's winter....again My neighbor said if we do some intake and exhaust manifold flairing, cold air intake, and a good tuned 4bbl, wrapped headers (he said he can get a custom built set for about $140), he believes we could pick up a few hp's out of it.
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | 56RoyalLancer - 2009-10-14 11:12 PM Jay, I was wrong. I can't find reference to a single 4bbl offy. Here is the information from my friend and fellow forward look member Dave H. Intake Manifold: Offenhauser (213-225-1307), dual 4 bbl (P/N 3614), still available new. These were available in late 56 and were used for 57 Super D500s with factory dual quads. Offy also has a 3x2 manifold. These also fit 315/325 Poly engines. The 1956 factory dual quad, P/N 1733878, is very rare and not as good as the Offy, which replaced it in 1957. I port matched the intake runners to the head ports. Is the original dual quad the Kiekhaefer aluminum? I heard they had a Dodge part number. If so, that's the one I have a chance to buy, but again, I hate to drop that kind of cash for a dual quad that is going to make me regrind the cam. I'll have to digest those distributor specs, to be honest, I have no idea how to set all that up! lol Might have to find someone to do it for me. lol
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1118
Location: STL, MO | Be careful w/ wrapped headers if they become contaminated with oil, grease, etc and they will, a small normally easy to extinguish engine fire can become catastrophic you'll have a helluva time puttin it out, carry an extinguisher always, been there done that, cars and bikes |
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Handygun - 2009-10-14 11:23 PM Be careful w/ wrapped headers if they become contaminated with oil, grease, etc and they will, a small normally easy to extinguish engine fire can become catastrophic you'll have a helluva time puttin it out, carry an extinguisher always, been there done that, cars and bikes darn! I'd forgotten how tough this biz is! LOL Maybe I should've stayed with offroaders! Just kidding, it's fun to get back into the golden oldies.
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | 56RoyalLancer - 2009-10-14 11:12 PM Jay, I was wrong. I can't find reference to a single 4bbl offy. Here is the information from my friend and fellow forward look member Dave H. Hah, I know Dave, met last year when he was in town. He's coming maybe early next year, gonna get him to come over and try some of my wife's Russian cooking.
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Did the Kiekhaefer manifold have a "K" on it? Looking at the pic, it doesn't have it just the Dodge part number. So were these just Dodge produced D-500-1 manifolds, or is it a Kiekhaefer produced one? Anyone have any idea?
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Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!
Posts: 5358
Location: Heaven Above (Formerly Oklahoma City,OK) | Hey Jay, have you gone on line to the companies that made aftermarket manifolds to see if there might be one on a dusty shelf in the back?
You might also check out Hot Hemi Heads' on line parts catalogue. If the little info I have seen is correct the same manifold fit either the Poly or the Hemi engines. They also have an open to the public "for Sale/Wanted to buy" link//thread on thier website. I've checked it in the past from curiosity.
Uncle Walt
P.S. Is the pulley enroute? |
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Sorry Walt, the 10/15 tax deadline has me buried, but I promise to get yours in the mail on Friday. I say Friday because I don't know how late I'm going to be at the office Thursday trying to get returns out the door. Needless to say, I have not been able to get the ofice staff help I need. It is in the box and taped up, I just need time to drive over to the UPS place and fill out the paperwork. Back to the question. I've tried eelco, hot hemi heads, any and all places on the net and nobody makes a single 4bbl manifold. You can buy the Offy dual quad manifold all day long. But try to find a single 4bbl! Forget it! Well, off to the office. Just found out I've gotta file forms for my clients owning real estate in Mexico.....fun times today!!!!!
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Location: Parts Unknown | What manifolds and distributor arcs did they use in Mexico ?  |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 608
Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Jay, Here is a picture of Kiekhaefer double log (as they used to say).
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Well, I decided to let it go. Makes sad, but I have to be realistic right now. I really want a single 4bbl, but nobody makes them and nobody wants to sell me one. Just seems ironic that you can buy dual quad and 3 duece manifolds all day long, yet you can't get a silly 4bbl one. I have a little time to wait, but if I can't find one to buy, I'm going to buy the Retrotek EFI system, the Nostalgia series 3 duece set up. It's pricey at around $2,500, but what am I to do. Maybe I should run the 2bbl until I find a 4bbl to buy, but it's real difficult to wait that long! lol I might be 6 feet under by then!
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Location: Parts Unknown | Jay,
Have you hit Neil Freman, or any of the other vintage wrecking yards ? An OEM 4bbl package shouldn't be THAT hard to find. Color me lazy, but I just poured 11 yards of concrete (so don't make me go look this up), but is the non-Hemi 4bbl intake the same as the Hemi 4bbl ? |
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Expert
Posts: 1590
Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Neil, the Poly and Hemi intakes are the same in those early years. Except that 315/325 high deck manifolds won't interchange with the 241/270 low deck manifolds. The poly/hemi blocks are the same in a general sense, though pistons, exhaust manifolds, etc. have to be changed to make an early Poly into a Hemi, but it can be done. I'm going to do some digging on the net and see what I come up with. I've had a wanted ad here for the last month, but no takers. I don't know who Neil Freman is, do you have any contact info?
Edited by jsrail 2009-10-16 11:34 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1590
Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Looks like I may have a Dodge factory single 4bbl manifold by tonight! Yeah! The guy is going to email me some pics tonight, he has 2 of them. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 608
Location: Madison, Wisconsin | Any updates?
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Location: Parts Unknown | Neil Freman runs a vintage wrecking yard out of Whitehall, MT. I believe it is simply known as Freman's Auto Wrecking. Just Google it.
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | 56RoyalLancer - 2009-11-15 10:19 PM Any updates? Sorry dude, just haven't gotten around to posting. I found a 4bbl intake in Georgia, some big wrecking and parts yard. The intake will need to be sand blasted as it's got surface rust from sitting on a concrete floor in the humidity. The guy thought this one came from one of the dealerships they bought since it has no water marking, bnor bolt/washer marks, he believed it was a NOS intake. Anyway, NOS or not, it's a beaut and so was the price $495. I know where another one is for $450 and used, but the pics look okay and I'd already bought this one. Finding these are very difficult and the sellers knw it. I could buy a '57 4bbl manifold any day, I was offered one for $150. But '57's don't have the generator bracket bolt boss, only '56, and since I want to move the generator over to the driver's side, it helps to have the original so I have one less bracket to custom make. It looks cleaner as well. Another guy wanted $600 for one! So, if anyone wants a '56 4bbl intake, I know where there is one. I'll probably buy an adapter and run a 500-650cfm Edelbrock. Gary Pavlovich just reground the cam for me: intake .450 life, 256 duration; exhaust .435 lift, 262 duration. He says it should have a nice lope (I asked for that! :-)), and good power in the 1500-5000rp range. This should be well enough good for me as I'm no race car driver and eventually it will go to my son to drive. I don't want him with too much power too early in life or his mother and I will be sitting on pins and needles every Friday and Saturday night! I haven't decided if I will buy the Hot Heads front dress kit. It includes adapters and BBC waterpump, aluminum timing cover with brackets for the a/c and generator (to mount up top or down below, your choice), all new pulleys (the timing cover is at different than stock depth and won't line up with the original crank pulleys), etc. It's steep at start of $676, but looks nice. Not sure if I'll have money to spend and I'd already collected double waterpump and crank pulleys. I think will probably go original and save that cost. I could use that cash to do the upholstery. And not knowing when my social security back pay will come, I've got to be a bit smart where and what I spend on the car. Besides, I've already started to collect some small items for my '55 331 Hemi engine! Now, if only the shop would get going and finally weld that small crack in the head, the motor would be finished, at least the long block. Then I might be able to get some things going here!
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Heh, Heh---you do want to get rid of the rust, inside that guy (a 56-57-58 315/325 c.i. engine-fit), but, remember that the intake
fuel/air charge LIKES to go thru a rough passage-surface, in order to get a good uniform fuel-mixture, to the carburetor.
So, that intake looks like it will 'mix' the charge very well!
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Board Moderator
Posts: 3186
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | Best way to "derust" that manifold is to place it in a solution of Muriatic Acid and let it sit until the bubbling stops. Then slosh it around and repeat above several times.
You can also flip it over in case there are air pockets and do the same.
The rust will be GONE, and the washed off part ready to paint!
Just use ventilation and proper gloves and caution, as it is ACID! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | What Hank said.
Muriatic acid is the common name for Hydrochloric acid, which is mostly good to clean concrete/masonry, and toilet
hard-water stainage.
Easy to get and use, but you don't want to use it to clean your sinuses---altho it is VERY effective at doing that!
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Expert
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | DeSotohead - 2009-11-16 2:32 PM Best way to "derust" that manifold is to place it in a solution of Muriatic Acid and let it sit until the bubbling stops. Then slosh it around and repeat above several times. You can also flip it over in case there are air pockets and do the same. The rust will be GONE, and the washed off part ready to paint! Just use ventilation and proper gloves and caution, as it is ACID! Well Hank, it's been awhile since this thread, but that intake is sitting in a nice bath of muriatic acid now. It didn't do much bubling until fater the first half hour, now some big air bubbles are bubbling up. I bought one of those mortar mixing pans , about 5 inches deep to soak it in. I'll let everyone know how it turns out. Jay
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Location: Parts Unknown | Jay,
Your periodic calls and posts make me envious of your progress.
I have a building to complete between me and the car work and your reports keep me
motivated ! 
Thanks.
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Expert
Posts: 1590
Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Thanks Doc, but I feel like I'm going real slow compared to others around here! lol Well, now I'm off to my wife's student's piano recital. My son is performing 5th in line. Jay
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 774
Location: Atlanta GA USA | Don't leave it in there too long!!!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1590
Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Well, the intake didn't turn out half bad. There are some pits, who knows how much was due to the casting, but nothing that will effect performance. It soaked for about 5 hours, then a good rinse off and compressed air dry. Then 1 hour on the BBQ to suck all the moisture out and an instance spray of self-etching primer to soak into the pours. I'm pleased with how it came out, now the next piece is the water pump housing. This piece has a lot of rust powder inside as well as rust chunks. You would have never known that by looking at the outside. Jay P.S. My son played the best out of al the students today. We are very proud of him. You can love cars and music at the same time.
Edited by jsrail 2010-03-21 10:22 PM
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Need Help With Decision!!!!
