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Elite Veteran
Posts: 663
  
Location: Oakley, Ill | The January 2011 issue of HEMMINGS CLASSIC CAR magazine has an article comparing a 56 DeSoto Fireflite to a 57 Chebby Bel Air Fuel Injected car. To the surprise of none of us, they determined that the DeSoto was much preferable. I know for a fact that a 56 Imperial will outlast a Pontiac GTO at speeds "in excess of 80", because the Imperial can skip every other gas stop, while the Goat may actually run out of gas. |
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Expert
Posts: 1352
Location: Springville, CA | John,
Have you ever owned a Pontiac GTO?
Loyd |
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Expert
Posts: 1288
| I know this probably blasphemous, but I have always thought the GTO is the most overrated muscle car of all time. Way back when, in late 1963, my dad bought a '64 Goat, just a 325 horse/389 CID mill, which I think was the first sold in my old town in southern Colorado. At that time, I still had my '60 Fury ram-inducted 383. Shortly thereafter, we tested them against each other and there was no match at all -- though my '60 did have 4.10 gears and Hedman Headers.
On a Saturday afternoon in November 1964, I took delivery of a '65 Sport Fury with the 426 Street engine (365 HP) and a 4-speed. That same evening, I caught a drag with a '65 GTO (360 horse 389 -- three deuces) and by the time we hit 85 and backed off, I was at least two lengths ahead of him.
In 1967, I got a Dodge R/T with the 375/440 and a 4-speed about the same time my dad got a '67 Goat and that R/T ate the Poncho up. Except for the lousy Inland Steel gear shift and the inadequate clutch, that car was the best street racing machine I had in the "Golden Years" of muscle cars. After we moved to Albuquerque in '69, I tangled on Lomas Blvd. (sort of the main drag there) with a '68 427 Vette and a '69 GTO (it was a three-lane street). Absolutely magnificent! The guy in the Vette gave his too much, so his tires just spun and he had to back off. The Goat, again, was no problem and he "slunk" off to szome side street. But the start was spectacular: tires shrieking and smoking, air cleaners howling, exhausts roaring. Shades of Woodward Avenue.
Joe Godec
'57 Chrysler 300C (is there really any other 300C?), '60 Fury SonoRamic, '65 Fuellie Vette |
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Location: Parts Unknown | What ? .... you didn't like that Inland shifter !!!!! 
That is why my 66 Coronet runs a 68 Hurst, .. oh yeah, and a 12" clutch. 
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Veteran
Posts: 258
| Sonoramic60 - 2010-11-22 9:40 AM
I know this probably blasphemous, but I have always thought the GTO is the most overrated muscle car of all time. Way back when, in late 1963, my dad bought a '64 Goat, just a 325 horse/389 CID mill, which I think was the first sold in my old town in southern Colorado. At that time, I still had my '60 Fury ram-inducted 383. Shortly thereafter, we tested them against each other and there was no match at all -- though my '60 did have 4.10 gears and Hedman Headers.
On a Saturday afternoon in November 1964, I took delivery of a '65 Sport Fury with the 426 Street engine (365 HP) and a 4-speed. That same evening, I caught a drag with a '65 GTO (360 horse 389 -- three deuces) and by the time we hit 85 and backed off, I was at least two lengths ahead of him.
In 1967, I got a Dodge R/T with the 375/440 and a 4-speed about the same time my dad got a '67 Goat and that R/T ate the Poncho up. Except for the lousy Inland Steel gear shift and the inadequate clutch, that car was the best street racing machine I had in the "Golden Years" of muscle cars. After we moved to Albuquerque in '69, I tangled on Lomas Blvd. (sort of the main drag there) with a '68 427 Vette and a '69 GTO (it was a three-lane street). Absolutely magnificent! The guy in the Vette gave his too much, so his tires just spun and he had to back off. The Goat, again, was no problem and he "slunk" off to szome side street. But the start was spectacular: tires shrieking and smoking, air cleaners howling, exhausts roaring. Shades of Woodward Avenue.
Joe Godec
'57 Chrysler 300C (is there really any other 300C?), '60 Fury SonoRamic, '65 Fuellie Vette
Fun stories!! |
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA | amen to the '56 DeSoto over the '57 Chevy...
double-amen to the "over-rated" status of the GTO...
dad and i have our fun little "debates" regarding the '56 DeSoto - i've been hunting for a '56 ADVENTURER for years...
he's "convinced" that it's a "lead sled" 'cause all he hears is "DeSoto" and his 'ears' translate that to "lead sled"...
we have our little "debates" as to which will actually appreciate in value more, his '53 Studebaker Starliner or my (if i ever find one) '56 DeSoto ADVENTURER... |
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Expert
Posts: 3400
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | My friend has that exact Desoto, color combo and all in a 4d, in his back yard, hoping to restore it some day! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | 55poly - 2010-11-23 11:50 AM
dad and i have our fun little "debates" regarding the '56 DeSoto - i've been hunting for a '56 ADVENTURER for years...
he's "convinced" that it's a "lead sled" 'cause all he hears is "DeSoto" and his 'ears' translate that to "lead sled"...
we have our little "debates" as to which will actually appreciate in value more, his '53 Studebaker Starliner or my (if i ever find one) '56 DeSoto ADVENTURER...
*******************************************
I had a *well used* 56 Adventurer that I drove for a while. It was an ocean front rust bucket, so I never felt any
compunction to worry about wrecking it, as it was going to need a total body swap. The 56 DeSoto 2ht weighs in at
around 3800 lbs - not very heavy for a car of that size. In good tune, the 341 with dual quads will move it along real
good, with stout acceleration at any speed below 100. I never took mine much above that, but I really doubt there
were many cars on the road in 1956 that could hold it.
The Starliner is the sedan, correct ? My brother has a 53 Commander. I think a 56 Adventurer would walk all over
any Studebaker made in 1953 for demand and appreciable value.
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA |
the '53 Starliner was a 2dr hardtop or coupe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studebaker_Starlight
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1953-1954-studebaker-champion-regal-s...
(actually, calling it a "2dr" is perceived by "Stude Men" as "this guy has no clue what he is talking about" because ALL of the '53/'54 Starlight's were 2dr models, Stude never made a 4dr version)...
[personally, i prefer the '54 over the '53...) |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | i had 4 57 chevrolets a 67 gto and a 56 crown vic with a 59 interceptor . i liked all but the gto small block 400 was first , 57chevrolt 6 cylinder 325 was second and the crown vic third . the crown vic was super fast but the gto gotta take it hands down . with the 235 i was whippin 283's all day long . the gto used fuel like it had 2in. line but if i had a choice of any of my cars back it would be the 68 383 4 speed road runner , a good all around car and quick , with great styling-----------------------------------------------------------later
Edited by 60 dart 2010-11-23 6:50 AM
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA |
yeah, '68 was a good year for "muscle", my uncle used to have a '68 Road Runner and he also used to have a '68 Barracuda...
the boss has a '68 Mustang Fastback...
me personally, i'll take the mid- to late-50's any day of the week over the late 60's...
sure, the late 60's were "faster", but the 50's are FREAGIN' AWESOME when it comes to "style"... |
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Expert
Posts: 1288
| Poly --
Those old 1960 Plymmmers and Darts weren't that much slower than the cars in late 60s. I have always maintained that the ram-inducted 361s and 383s developed more horses than they were rated. I base this upon the fact that the standard ram 413 of the 300F was listed at 375 HP, so if the 383 has essentially the same components as that engine and is 93% the size of the 413, it should produce some 350-360 horsepower (or 93% of that coming from the 413). Also, the 2X4V 383 of the '59 Dodges and DeSotos were rated at 345 and 350 HP (identical engines, both produced by Dodge), so the '60 ram engines should be comparable. I have discussed this with former Chrysler executives and members of the Chrysler Historical Society and it seems as though it was more or less an exercise in corporate politics -- it wouldn't do for the lowly Plymouth and Darts to have more available power than that available for the higher priced cars, except for the 300F.
I also recall a performance comparison made a few years ago in which the '60 383 SonoRamic Commando gave virtually identical figures to the '65 426 Street in the bigger Fury line.
I never had a chance to run against a RR in my '60, but I don't think I would be too ashamed of the results.
Joe Godec |
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA |
highly agree...
the 1960 Plymouth SonoRamic Commando 383 is in my "top five" list of engines...
but NOT for "horsepower", i could care less about "horsepower", 'horsepower' is for the MARKETING DEPARTMENT
as i recall, the '60 SonoRamic hit mid-400's in FOOT POUNDS !!!
but only mid-300's in "horsepower" - but pit that baby against ANY other mid-300's in "horsepower" and my 'money' is on the SonoRamic off-the-line, 1/4 mile, and 1/2 mile... |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I beat a built 69 Nova 396 4-speed with my cross-ram 383, 3-speed manual 60 Fireflite coupe.
I have never checked the weight on a Nova like that, but it is a considerably smaller car. He had
me off the line, but once I grabbed second I had him !
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA |
i'm showing the '60 'flite coupe to weigh in at 3,945 lbs and the '69 Nova SS 396 to weigh in at 3,400...
the 'flite could probably have had some weight shaved off or some wider back tires and it would have beaten the Nova off-the-line also...
not sure what tires came with the '60 'flite and the '69 Nova, but it's pretty safe to say that the Nova had more OEM "grab" than the 'flite... |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I ran BFG 7.60x15's on the car. I never weighed it that I remember ???, but it was a stripper. Gears were 3.23
The Nova had Cragars, fat tires out back, and traction bars. It was a genuine SS 396, worked over into a typical
70's street racer with lots of flashy go-fast all around.
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Expert
Posts: 1288
| Poly --
Yup! That old '60 "SonoRamic Commando" 383/330(?) was rated at 460 foot pounds of torque! Quite a bit in a dumpy old '60 Fury 2 dr h/t.
If I may, I would like to share a great experience I had with my current Big-Tailed Beast. A few years back, I went to a car show and pulled up next to a '64 Vette droptop with an engine that was chromed beyond belief (not at Fuelie, though). After I parked the BTB, another guy pulled up with a red '64 Goat, but leaving a space between us. He came up to me and said, "You don't mind if I save a space for a friend, do you?" Being a good MoPar guy, I replied, "Of course not." As he was smirking, the "friend" pulled up with a magnificient LS-1 454 SS Chevelle. The three GM types after that would not say "s***" to me even if their mouths had been full of it. However, later in the day, after a few people did a "double take" and back-tracked to look at the engine on the BTB, I overheard a liitle conversation behind me -- the Chevelle guy was saying, " I can't understand why people climb all over the engine of that piece of old MoPar c*** while they ignore our cars." I must say, THAT was a great time for both me and the Beast!
Joe Godec |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | "Belly button" cars.
(Everybody's got one..)
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 663
Location: Oakley, Ill | No I have not owned a GTO, but the pal who's wife drove my Imperial home for me when I bought it, told me that it ruined her for his GTO. The next year she was at the convention with a Bonneville Brougham of her own, and took 2nd in her class, VS his no trophy. She rubbed that in, believe me. If you are around her much, you will understand why some women get smacked. We got on the freeway together, then they left. My flathead will go forever at 55-60, but it doesn't have the legs to run with the big kids. Their kids told me that they were running "in excess of 80", and his car was getting about 7, while the Imperial was getting around 18. She'd skip gas stops, and razz him. She was especially harsh when he ran out of gas, and she had to go get him a can of it. When they got off the interstate and onto the 2 lanes, she kept him behind her for almost 100 miles. She had the Imperial's factory air going full blast, while he was trying to decide whether to open the windows and let the 90 plus degree rain in, or save his interior. I don' t really call what I do with GFTO's driving them, more help moving them from storage place to storage place. I'll take the FL Mopar experience over a GTO. |
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FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA |
yep, "belly button" cars...
my '55 base-model 4dr Coronet is no "show car", she's nothin' but a "polished survivor"...
it happens more often than not, i frequently have tri-five chebby belly-button bel air's wantin' my car parked in their row...
by the end of the day, it becomes BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that the ONLY reason they wanted a "survivor" sitting next to their machine is 'cause they thought it made theirs look all the more impressive via direct side-by-side comparison...
it really does kinda "disturb" them that my 'survivor' turns just as many heads... |
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Hemmings Classic Car article
