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Expert
Posts: 2264
  
Location: McComb, Mississippi | I am about to start rebuilding my 1961 dodges front end. I want to know the easiest way to disassemble the front end. I do not have a torsion bar removal tool. Im replacing the bushings, ball joints, and tie rods. Thanks |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8444
 
Location: Perth Australia | Do you have the socket to undo the ball joints?
If not, dont start until you get one, they are tough to screw out and tough to screw back in, not something you could do with stilsons or the like.
I dont have the tortion bar tool either, but I didnt have any real trouble pulling them out of their homes.
You will also need a press to get the bushes out of the suspention wishbones ect, tie rod ends arnt much of a battle
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Expert
Posts: 2264
Location: McComb, Mississippi | Thanks. I am going to rent the socket and get a shop to press in the bushings. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8444
Location: Perth Australia | Ok, just need plenty of rags and a good hand cleaner then 
Oh, and a good penatrating oil of your liking for the ciezed in bits
Make sure your jack stands are sturdy as your going to be using a lot of force to get those ball joints off
Try to do those with them still attatched to the subframe, so you have the weight of the car to pull against
I did mine with the subframe out which actuall made it harder, but I did think that it would have been easier if I released the ball joints from the spindle, but left the nuts still on them, and pretty much left everything else still connected and loosened the ball joints almost all the way off first.
You would have to be carefull of the tortion bars though, or at least wind them right off, so once you get the ball joints undone, you dont have the lower suspention arm suddenly turn to the ground under the tention of the tortion bar and damage you.
Best advice is to read your book and look and understand what your going to do.
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Expert
Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Get it up on good jacks and unwind the t bars, I wouls take the upper and lowers to a shop and have the ball joints removed and reinstalled, also the control arm buchings, I just went throuth this on a 61 Ply, not fullly back together yet.
The ball joints can really be a pain and as said, there's a special socket to remove and install. Try to find a shop that's done it before or it may get screwed up. try to clen and paint as much as you can because you probably won't be this deep into it again. good luck, and be safe. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 480
Location: The Great Northwest | I just finished doing the front end rebuild on the 61 New Yorker. The sequence of events was:
Get the front end of the car on solid jack stands
Loosen (don't remove) the nuts on all four ball joints and keep them on the threaded section of the ball joint
Break the the ball joints loose from the wheel assembly with a pickle fork - I needed a large sledge hammer
Loosen the torsion bars all the way until they are just hanging out of the lower a arms - no special tool needed
Remove the torsion bars from the lower a arms
Remove the nuts from the ball joints and remove the wheel assembly from the a arms
Disconnecting the tie rod ends will give you more wheel movement for better access to some bolts
You can try to loosen the ball joints in the a arms yourself or remove the nuts and bolts that retain the a arms and take them to a shop that can remove and then reinstall new ball joints. Upper and lower are different size
Same approach applies to all the rubber bushings in the a arms
If you are going to replace the shocks, now is the time
Reverse order to reinstall
If you like the way your car stance looks now, measure the height of the front bumper to the ground before you start so you can reinstall the torsion bars to get the exact same height.
Very worthwhile when you're finished. You may want to consider replacing the brake hoses while you're at it and look at the brake shoes as well. Others will chime in here if I have forgotten something.
Edited by 56300B 2013-11-03 10:07 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 144
Location: Chicago, IL | This is a good thread for me to see right now since I'm going to begin rebuilding the front end on my 60 Savoy tomorrow. I've removed the front fenders/grille/radiator and support so I'll have a bit more room to work.
Is the ball joint socket in question the 1 59/64 sized one? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 480
Location: The Great Northwest | Can't provide an exact size for the ball joint socket, but it looked like a large square with rounded corners. Not sure what size or if a regular shaped socket would work. |
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Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | Regular sockets won't work.
The shape is exactly what you say, a square with rounded corners.
I've made my own socket-tool for this once I noticed the shape. I drew it up in the computer and had the file lasercut out of 3/8" steel.
Also made a plate for use with a 3/4" drive ratchet.
Stacked and welded it all together and my balljoint-socket was born.
Of course, just buying one is much easier in the states
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1159
Location: D-70199 Heslach | I made my own, too.
Sorry, values are metric
Edited by ToMopar 2013-11-04 6:14 AM
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 Tgel.jpg (20KB - 118 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 480
Location: The Great Northwest | That's the one! I would have bought one myself but this is (hopefully) the last time any ball joints need to be replaced around here................... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | ............
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The socket you need is 1 59/64.
There are real cheap ones and better ones, I bought a snap on one same as this for my '59 Dodge, fits the ball joints perfectly.
Here's the one you need , Snap on S9365B , http://www.ebay.com/itm/SNAP-ON-BALL-JOINT-SOCKET-For-CHRYSLER-3-4-...
If you find one ( Snap on ) that is part number S9365A then it is just the chromed version of the same socket above.
This is the chromed version http://www.ebay.com/itm/nice-Snap-on-ball-joint-socket-3-4-drive-un...
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Edited by VAN HELSING 2013-11-04 11:17 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Aren't there 2 sizes of these? One for dodge/ply and the larger for Chrysler/Desoto? Greg |
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Expert
Posts: 2264
Location: McComb, Mississippi | thanks for all the replies. I will take all these tips into consideration when I start. |
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Expert
Posts: 2264
Location: McComb, Mississippi | Any advice on torquing down parts with weight on suspension or off?? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | LD3 Greg - 2013-11-05 6:22 AM
Aren't there 2 sizes of these? One for dodge/ply and the larger for Chrysler/Desoto? Greg
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Not sure but I know there is another larger socket that is listed for Chrysler vans/pick ups.......... 2-9/64"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OTC-8034-Chrysler-Large-Ball-Joint-Socket-2...
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Expert
Posts: 2264
Location: McComb, Mississippi | Also, where is the best place to put the jack stands? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9685
Location: So. Cal | plymouth - 2013-11-04 6:52 PM
Any advice on torquing down parts with weight on suspension or off??
plymouth - 2013-11-05 4:23 AM
Also, where is the best place to put the jack stands?
Jack up the car and put the jackstands under the frame near the windshield area. Make sure the stands are placed on concrete, not dirt.
Once the tires are in the air, before you take the suspension apart, remove the tension on the T-bars by backing off the bolts all the way.
Use an air gun to remove the ball joints from the control arms. It makes it much easier. But NEVER use an air gun to install the ball joints. It will strip the control arm if you do.
You will need a press to install the bushings in the upper and lower control arms. If you do it yourself, make sure the control arm is well supported from underneath as evenly as possible.
After everything is installed, do not tighten the lower control arm mounting nut completely. Lower the car down and get the full weight of the car on the T-bars, then tighten the lower contol arm nuts. This will prevent the lower bushings from being over-stressed.
Edited by Powerflite 2013-11-05 2:18 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2264
Location: McComb, Mississippi | thanks. should I fully tighten the upper control arms with weight on the suspension? should I tighten the torsion bars with car still jacked up? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8444
Location: Perth Australia | Upper control arms are adjusted for your wheel alignment, therefor you need the weight on them
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9685
Location: So. Cal | I would count how many threads you see on the T-bar adjuster bolts. Then when you put them back in, tighten them up to the same level before you put the car down. That way, they will be close to where you need them to be. But to directly answer your question, yes you need to put those T-bar bolts in before you let the car down.
The upper control arm bushings should be tightened before you put the car down as well, but you could leave them slightly loose because you will need to move them around as you align the camber (with the wheels on the ground) - just align it close enough to be able to drive it to a proper alignment shop. Of course both ball joints need to be fully tightened and locked in place before you let the car down.
Edited by Powerflite 2013-11-05 7:22 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2264
Location: McComb, Mississippi | thanks guys. |
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Expert
Posts: 3400
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Just a note here, the control arms upper or lower, should not be tightened till the car is on the ground or the bushings will be stressed at ride height, this is standard practice on any car with control arm bushings that are bolted in in. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | Shep - 2013-11-06 11:43 AM
Just a note here, the control arms upper or lower, should not be tightened till the car is on the ground or the bushings will be stressed at ride height, this is standard practice on any car with control arm bushings that are bolted in in.
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Yep, dead right there , any suspension height adjustment should be done with the bolts loosened off, bounce the car a bit to settle it once the suspension is adjusted and then tighten the bolts once the height is to where you want it. If you don't loosen the bolts the rubber in the bushes twist and this can contribute to premature bush failure.
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Expert
Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Hey, I have three, (Ya need four) brand new Moog upper control arm adjusters, to set the upper caster/camber. Rockauto sent me a double order, they don't want them back because of the cost of shipping, etc. You can have them for free, just pay actual shipping from Atlanta.
Edited by fenix 2013-11-13 12:06 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | do not buy the cheap sockets . i got the knuckles as proof . one slip and it'll keep slipping for ever . they aren't tempered enough for hard service . try removing while on
the car and you'll see just what hard service is , especially if you're scared to use a little heat ----------------------------------------------------------later |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7808
Location: Williams California | VAN HELSING - 2013-11-05 4:22 AM
LD3 Greg - 2013-11-05 6:22 AM
Aren't there 2 sizes of these? One for dodge/ply and the larger for Chrysler/Desoto? Greg
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Not sure but I know there is another larger socket that is listed for Chrysler vans/pick ups.......... 2-9/64"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OTC-8034-Chrysler-Large-Ball-Joint-Socket-2...
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There are three sizes I have run across, Largest for trucks and vans, medium for our FL cars, and smaller ones for some of the A-bodies and such.
---John |
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Veteran
Posts: 144
Location: Chicago, IL | I'll second the comment about using GOOD TOOLS. I loosened the ball joints today and could not have imagined doing it with cheapo tools. |
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Expert
Posts: 2264
Location: McComb, Mississippi | Car now has rebuilt front suspension and gearbox. The car feels completely different to drive. I am amazed on how well the car handles. I recommend this to anyone who plans on driving their FL regularly. |
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front end disassembly
