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Elite Veteran
Posts: 990
  
| I was slowing down, approaching a red light, going about 10 mph when someone rear ended me at about 5 mph faster. Fortunately, the only damage was to the back bumper.
Not like the Superbird in the December issue of Mopar Collector's Guide, page 8.
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=38737&...
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
 
Location: bishop, ca | Bummer, for sure, but, this is why we all should have our own stashes of exterior trim pieces on hand.
Your insurance company would love to have you name your price on the replacement costs of the damaged pieces,
as long as the prices are reasonable, to them....so that they don't have to do the parts search, and then hope that
the parts' condition, that they locate, are acceptable to you.
The fair "retail" cost to replace and to rechrome this rear bumper might well be around $2,000.00, while your own costs
for them might be a lot less than that amount.
Insurance (only-) needs to compensate a victim for the like-kind-quality value/costs of any replacement parts; so, bad-for-bad
but excellent-for-excellent condition, and that bumper was in excellent condition.
It would be nice to have an excellent set of replacement tail light assemblies on hand.
Any spare parts can be included in the sale of a car, and will increase its fair market value, so, having good spare parts on
hand is an appreciating asset!
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Expert
Posts: 3893
Location: Northen Virginia | Ouch! What car it was? look like a damage caused by a Dagmar bumper |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1116
Location: CA | Have you removed the bumper and looked at the potential damage behind it? That looks deep enough to have hit the body beneath, I do hope I'm wrong. At least it isn't totaled though, that would be extremely sad. |
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Expert
Posts: 1508
Location: new york | Sorry about your misfortune! Could have been a lot worse, Thanks God it was not! HAPPY MOTORING! Victor.. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | It was the same thing that happened to my DeSoto, only I was at a dead stop and the
vehicle that hit me (an early 80's full size Blazer) was going 35. That was enough to require
a total body rebuild, as it crumpled the floor pan and broke the rockers away from the
quarters.
Still, I feel your "pain". The wrecks are all too similar.
Let me guess .... the driver was texting ? On the phone ? 
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 988
Location: Kansas City, Kansas | When I see this it makes me wonder if a center-mount brake light isn't such a bad idea. Our old-tech tail lights are sometimes hard to so in the daytime and an extra light might have alerted the driver in advance. I say this and all three of my cars are pre-'86 and without the center mount brake light, including my daily driver (that got rear-ended at a stop light also).
They seem cheap and easy to install.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALPINETECH-15-5-Spoiler-Light-CHMSL-LED-3rd...
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | d500neil - 2011-10-25 9:27 PM
Bummer, for sure, but, this is why we all should have our own stashes of exterior trim pieces on hand.
Your insurance company would love to have you name your price on the replacement costs of the damaged pieces,
as long as the prices are reasonable, to them....so that they don't have to do the parts search, and then hope that
the parts' condition, that they locate, are acceptable to you.
The fair "retail" cost to replace and to rechrome this rear bumper might well be around $2,000.00, while your own costs
for them might be a lot less than that amount.
Insurance (only-) needs to compensate a victim for the like-kind-quality value/costs of any replacement parts; so, bad-for-bad
but excellent-for-excellent condition, and that bumper was in excellent condition.
It would be nice to have an excellent set of replacement tail light assemblies on hand.
Any spare parts can be included in the sale of a car, and will increase its fair market value, so, having good spare parts on
hand is an appreciating asset!
In your case Neil I agree you should keep alot of extra parts on hand. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Holy cow! Bumpers that actually work without destroying the car! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The tail lights on the 58 PLY and others, like the early 1961 Dodges (--before the mid-year 'auxiliary' tail light was available)
and the 61 CHY's are VERY low mounted.
The 58 PLY tail lights are supposed to reflect their light upward, onto the reflective bezel, but, that reflection doesn't 'do' much,
in broad daylight.
I remember caravaning behind a 58 PLY, and thinking that it took some visual effort to see the application of its brake lights,
which were not in my field of view.
An auxiliary tail light, on a low mounted tail light car, would be a good thing to install.
There's going to be some lower body panel damage, as well as badly bent bumper brackets, and, maybe,
some frame 'horn' (ends) damage, too.
Spare body parts are really nice to have, on hand, when you eventually do NEED them.
Edited by d500neil 2011-10-26 3:12 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 782
Location: Edmonton, Alberta | That's terrible to see that. I hope you're able to get the car fixed up quickly.
Maybe a silly question.... it it possible to repair the bumper that was damaged on your car, or can it only be replaced? |
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Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | sconut1 - 2011-10-26 5:19 PM
That's terrible to see that. I hope you're able to get the car fixed up quickly.
Maybe a silly question.... it it possible to repair the bumper that was damaged on your car, or can it only be replaced?
Yeah, damage like this is bad, sorry to see that happen to you.
It is possible to repair it, but it would be less money to buy a better one for a car like this since they made so many. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 990
| The fellow was driving a 2004 Honda CRV, no damage to his car. Don't know what he was doing, the impact knocked the rear view mirror out of alignment, so I could not see what he was doing at that moment.
No body damage and the brackets look good, we looked all over and under the car.
Agreed on the spare parts, I do have a some, but no bumper.
The bumper can most likely be repaired, but the repair will most likely require rechroming. If it's rechromed, it won't match the front bumper. I'd like to get a good used one, if possible.
Will get one if those high mounted lights, good point about the taillights being low mounted. A lot of cars from this era have low mounted taillights.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1116
Location: CA | Original or not you should just have the guy pay to have the bumper repaired and get both front and rear bumpers rechromed so they match. Either way the guy who hit you is getting off very cheap. Low lights or not (and i could argue that) nobody should have been trailing you close enough to impact you. I'm glad you aren't hurt and for the most part neither is your car, that would have been a big heart breaker. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Two words: "Big M" 
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Expert
Posts: 1316
Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels | Sorry for your accident, I would hate to see it happened to mine 
Rob - 2011-10-27 2:19 AM
The fellow was driving a 2004 Honda CRV, no damage to his car
I am amazed at the damage done on your car and the total absence of damage on his !
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Expert
Posts: 4533
Location: Ripon, WI | It is a plastic car... There likely is damage that is masked by the plastic pieces flexing back out, visually looking OK. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Ah, ... the durability of Tupperware !
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 957
Location: Signal Mountain, TN | Chrome58 - 2011-10-27 4:44 AM
Sorry for your accident, I would hate to see it happened to mine
Rob - 2011-10-27 2:19 AM
The fellow was driving a 2004 Honda CRV, no damage to his car
I am amazed at the damage done on your car and the total absence of damage on his !
Trust me on this... Just because you don't SEE damage, doesn't mean there is none there....
As a VW tech for many years, i can tell you the Charcoal canister for the fuel tank breather system hides behind the right rear corner of the back bumper. Often we would have people who would come in for a check engine light, find a code for a large EVAP leak, and discover that the canister had broken off it's mounting points, leaving big holes that will never allow the fuel system to seal. Last I remember, they were about $600 and came with the leak detection pumps.... plus the labor for the diagnosis, installation, and clear the fault codes.... and they all said the same thing.... "I just barely bumped into the pole" or "they barely bumped me". Often times the evidence was still there in the form of a light scuff on the bumper, sometimes the paint was still there.... You gotta love plastic cars...  |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Agree.
JFG (just for grins), I prepared a fantasy repair appraisal on an 04 CRV.
Calculating the replacement of just the front face bar group, in my area ($68.00/hr & 7.75% tax), the 'damage'
would calculate to $836.49.
Adding in the grille and surround brings the total to $1,108.12.
It would not appear unreasonable to discover that the Hun-duh suffered damage to one or both of its plastic bodied
headlamp assemblies, too.
There, almost certainly, is some unibody damage, based upon the 'immovable object' that it collided with.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 520
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | The high mounted LED 3rd brake light is a fantastic idea, not only does it add visibility, it lights up much faster than a traditional bulb allowing the other driver slightly more time to react. You could also change the brake light's to LED's from superbrightleds.com. I used the brightest bulb they offer for my 3rd brake light in my Porsche and its great. |
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Member
Posts: 40
Location: Dundalk, Maryland, USA | Sorry to hear that. I'm surprised his Honda wasn't totalled. These old cars are built like tanks, are they not? |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: jersey | cooldude - 2011-11-09 6:29 PM
Sorry to hear that. I'm surprised his Honda wasn't totalled. These old cars are built like tanks, are they not?
NO! The front of my plymouth wouldn't survive a hit from a Lawnmower, let alone another car.
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Expert
Posts: 2308
Location: The Bat Cave, Fairborn, OH | Although the old iron usually has thicker gauge sheet metal than what is used on cars today, it doesn't fare well in a serious crash. The 50 year old cars may seem like they're built like tanks and seemingly indestructible, but that's an illusion. Here's a crash test you may have seen. It's a 1959 Chubby vs. a 2009 Chubby. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Asb3Ad-tg&feature=fvst
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Location: Parts Unknown | This photo is of my old 58 Plymouth after being hit by a down comforter that blew off a passing truck.
Fortunately, no one was hurt because we were all wearing our seat belts and had our helmets on. You
can readily see how the air bags and crumple zones were highly effective. In fact, after putting the spare
on, we continued on our trip to Disneyland.
Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2011-11-10 4:56 AM
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Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | 58 DESOTOS RULE - 2011-11-09 8:28 PM
Although the old iron usually has thicker gauge sheet metal than what is used on cars today, it doesn't fare well in a serious crash. The 50 year old cars may seem like they're built like tanks and seemingly indestructible, but that's an illusion. Here's a crash test you may have seen. It's a 1959 Chubby vs. a 2009 Chubby. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Asb3Ad-tg&feature=fvst
I've seen this test on T.V., and you have to take it at arms length. To get a true sense of the crash-worthiness of a typical 50's boat, they shouldn't have picked the '59 Chevy. It had the GM "X" frame design, which my '58 Cadillac has as well... NOT a good frame design! GM built them that way, to be able to lower the overall height of their cars, and improve the ride to compete with Chrysler. Unfortunatelly, this design led to a multitude of other problems, some of which include severe body flex ( allowing doors and lids to open while hitting road bumps) and a chassis that is very easy to "upset". Also, very little side impact protection and the frame tends to splay open when hit with a hard front or rear impact.  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 520
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado | A FL car really wouldn't fare much better in that sort of "offset" crash that they did with the impala, The only thing to slow down another vehicle except for the frame is the fender (flimsy) and the suspension (easily sheared off). Then the car gets to the firewall and your in serious trouble.
These cars are not tanks in a high speed impact. Never ever forget that.
Doc, that plymouth really lost badly vs a Semi if i had to guess.... |
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Location: Parts Unknown | That wreck was a head-on involving a 56-ish Ford pick up, which incidentally, fared
much better, as it rode higher and seemed to just go "right through" this poor Plymouth.
At least, that is how I "read" the photo series. You will find the entire photo group in the
vintage photos and postcard thread. I was amazed that the truck looked like it only need
minor repairs. Look for yourself.
As for how our cars hold up, I T-boned a car that ran a red light once and was disappointed
at how badly my 58 Firedome nose folded up. Although I drove away, it was a major
metal pounding project to straighten it back out. The headlights were bent down at a 45
degree angle, the fenders folding hard at the narrow point above the wheel well. 
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Expert
Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | I hear a lot of people saying old MoPars would put new cars to shame in a crash. It's a nice idea, but sentimental. Computers design crash zones and complicated monocoque designs that allow a modern car to sacrifice itself for its occupants by shielding the passenger compartment. I love me my FL cars, but I didn't and don't love Centerplane brakes which faded away on me as my '59 Plymouth dissolved into a cube truck that flipped over in front of me. I walked away, but I have scars to remind me I probably would have faired better in a modern car with airbags, crumple zones and antilock disk brakes.
Edited by JT Vincent 2011-11-14 10:35 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | As it relates to the last post and center plane brakes, there is a BIG difference in performance
in these brakes between the big and fat DeSoto / Chrysler jobs and them skinny little Dodge and
Plymouth units. Not all center plane brakes are the same.
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Expert
Posts: 2788
Location: USA - KY | .
This is odd...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdMEJNo4FN4
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7207
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada |
Quite the entertaining video..... very nicely done CGI 57 Plymouths crashing around! Glad they are all CGI.  |
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | Doc
I have to disagree with you about centerplane brakes. Yes, the chrysler and Desoto brakes are bigger than Dodge and Plymouth, but those cars weigh about 800 to 1000 lbs more than the Plymouth. The power brakes on my 57 and 58 Furys were inadequate at best and downright scary at other times (high speed). They were probably better than the competition at the time though. BTW my brother totaled my 57 Fury one night (with me in it) by hitting a large power pole head on (right of center) at about 40-45 mph. the roof was buckled up about 3 inches on the right side and the floor was ripped open so you could see the ground. It was crushed almost back to the firewall, needless to say we were both hurt but "staggered" away. wish I had pictures. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Jon, the reason that the Centerplane brakes faded was due to their composition, and, due to the lack of cooling
air around them, 'thanks' to their new-4-57 14" wheels.
As Brent states, we can upgrade our brakes by installing 12" x 2" or 12" x 2 1/2" assemblies (from CHY/IMP's), and,
we can replace the old-hardened OEM linings on them by having a company bond-on modern carbon-metallic linings onto
the brake shoes.
I've also seen vintage photos showing how cooling holes were drilled into the brakes' backing plates.
15" wheels also increase the cooling effect, and allow for better tire mileage, too---our cars look good wearing 15" wheels.
Edited by d500neil 2011-11-16 4:05 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1116
Location: CA | Neil I've seen you recommend the carbon metallic bonded linings numerous times. My question is does that material cut into the drums more than the stock linings? Brake shoes are easier to replace than drums I'd imagine, no? |
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Expert
Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | Part of my problem that day was also...I was young and these things were hard, even for a good mech to get just right. There wasn't anyone around us to tell us what to do. So you had your shop manual, and you bled the things 10 times because there is no mention of bench bleeding in the book-- and you'd fiddle with those eccentrics in the dark. So, they were probably not adjusted perfectly. But even when we got them just right, they seemed to like to fade under a hot summer sun in Chicago traffic. And then bind up after sitting. It's true the Plymouths I had didn't stop nearly as well as the DeSotos and Chryslers. My 62 300 stopped on a dime. I read a Popular Mechanics issue from the late '50s that featured a 57 Corvette with "Bexdix Center Plane Brakes, borrowed from Chrysler, and turned out of aluminum!" and went on about how high-tech they were. They were supposed to be an improvement on single cylinder setups. White knuckles, notwithstanding. How do we feel about disks for our not-totally-original cars? It looks easy and not too expensive. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Fins....I found out about these linings from a short article on them, in MoPar Action magazine.
The article stated that "...they are very drum friendly", and that has been my experience with them.
They did squeal for a short while, but, after taking their set they have behaved perfectly, and I have used them somewhat
energetically over the past decade(?).
Firm Feel's subcontractor provides ready-to-go 11x3" (riveted-on) shoe assemblies, but, for our bonded-on linings, Firm Feel's
guy needs to receive 'your' shoe assemblies, to do the change-over.
The 62 300 would have had the 12 x 2 1/2" Lockheed Centerplane brakes on it; 1963 was the first year for the 11x 3" Bendix
Duo Servo brakes.
BTW, I'd really like to try out a car having manual brakes with the Bendix's, because (and this was even mentioned in a 1965
Motor Trend review, on the Dodge Coronet 500, that I read, last week), power brakes made/makes the Bendix's overly sensitive;
that is true....a lot of their brake modulation is lost, with a power braking system.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 663
Location: Oakley, Ill | Look real hard at the U-tube videos of this "experiment", especially the ones from the top. You will notice that the engine and transmission of the 59 Chebby had been removed before the crash. You can see the floor through the engine compartment, where the hood is being bent back. This gives the new car about 1,000 lbs of mass advantage, plus, the fact that the engine and transmission do not bend very easily, as compared to sheetmetal, and they are bolted to the frame in 4 places, which really adds a lot of resistance to bending.
It is true that new cars are designed to protect the occupants, but without cheating, the old cars didn't fold up nearly that bad. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7432
Location: northern germany | this 59 chevy "crash test" has been discussed to death here and in gazillion other forums. fact is that poor 59 had major rust issues and the engine and transmission has been removed making this test pointless (its pointless anyway) and you bet the idiots who just wanted to show how superior new cars are knew what they were doing and it brings up the question what else has been changed to make this crap look more impressive and to make their gay new car look superior.... these old cars are no tanks and new cars are way safer but this "crash test" is BS |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | LOL----wouldn't we all love to see a REAL head-on crash test, and not one designed so that the impact is at/on
the corner of the engine-less car, where the sheet metal could be peeled back like a banana?
The occupants of the new car might survive, but the olde car would probably pass right through the newer vehicle.
And, OBTW, howabout putting the dummy, in the olde car, in a seat belt?
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7809
Location: Williams California | I wonder how the new car would hold up if faced with a similar hit from a '58 Mercury, '64 Galaxie, '65-'67 Imperial, '71-76 GM full size wagon. Al these listed have been perennial winners at the game of demo derby, there's a reason why.
---John |
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Expert
Posts: 3588
Location: Plymouth Spaceport | Hmmm...how about a "new" vs "old" demo derby! I'd love to see a 1967 Imperial plow into a Prius 
Edited by 1960DesotoAdventurer 2011-11-16 9:11 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | How about putting this late model International up against any and all comers in some freeway
commuting demo derby ?
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | Doctor DeSoto - 2011-11-16 11:18 PM
How about putting this late model International up against any and all comers in some freeway
commuting demo derby ? :stressed:
With that beast you can drive freely through Watts or Compton and the gang bangers will give you a wide berth! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | The 50 is an awesome crowd dispersal tool. Never mind the truck.
It is a shame we cannot clear a few areas back home with these. Whoops! Did I think that out loud ??
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Member
Posts: 40
Location: Dundalk, Maryland, USA | So I'm guessing a 58 Plymouth broadsiding a 69 Camaro would have suffered way more damage than what Christine did? I'm guessing, they put steel supports in it so it wouldnt crumble as much? |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Williams California | cooldude - 2011-11-17 4:00 PM
So I'm guessing a 58 Plymouth broadsiding a 69 Camaro would have suffered way more damage than what Christine did? I'm guessing, they put steel supports in it so it wouldnt crumble as much?
In a word, Yes. I have seen the front frame on that particular car [now owned by Bill Gibson] and you can see where the frame was reinforced to keep the front end from buckling in more severely.
---John |
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Veteran
Posts: 100
Location: Los Angeles (and Iowa for only part of the year) | I hope all goes well with the repair to your Belvedere. I love the color of your car, what is the name of the original color? Wyatt
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'58 Plymouth Accident
