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fan shroud
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bel5758
Posted 2012-08-03 10:33 PM (#333116)
Subject: fan shroud


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The string about radiator shrouds not withstanding, here's a more general question:

Did ANY of the 57-59 models have fan shrouds?

Not sure I've seen a photo anywhere that has a shroud in it.
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d500neil
Posted 2012-08-04 1:06 PM (#333191 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: RE: fan shroud



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Here ya go...PLY/DOD/DeS/CHY-IMP




Edited by d500neil 2012-08-04 1:08 PM




(PICT5570.JPG)



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Attachments PICT5570.JPG (107KB - 176 downloads)
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bel5758
Posted 2012-08-06 11:05 AM (#333460 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud


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Perfect - no doubt now. Thanks for the quick and accurate response.
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lonesome mopar
Posted 2013-04-09 10:08 AM (#368642 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Location: Milano, Italy		again on this shroud subject, sorry....

If I am not wrong, all those 55-58 shrouds were just a simple round metal circle around the fan. The rest of the radiator was out of the fan effect.

I am planning to build one for my 58 Belvie, and I wonder if they were as effective as the late model shrouds, those that wrap the whole backside of the radiator.



Edited by lonesome mopar 2013-04-09 10:11 AM
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Rodger
Posted 2013-04-09 11:15 AM (#368661 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud


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Depending on the vehicle and even on the maker of the vehicle ( think world wide ) Fan Shrouds could be just a "metal ring" even in The 70's.




Rodger & Gabby
COS
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57chizler
Posted 2013-04-09 3:38 PM (#368706 - in reply to #368642)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Most early shrouds were stamped steel and the ones I've seen covered the whole core...note the parts book reference to "upper" and "lower" so they could be removed without pulling the fan. In the late sixties/seventies the shrouds were plastic.

Even a simple ring around the fan will increase airflow...think "ducted fan".
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wbower3
Posted 2013-04-09 6:08 PM (#368731 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud


Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!

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Location: Heaven Above (Formerly Oklahoma City,OK)		Current article in STREETRODDER magazine (June,2013 issue) treats the subject of shrouds. Reccomends a shroud that coverss the entire radiator core'
Says that otherwise the fan may only work on 60% of the core.
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lonesome mopar
Posted 2013-04-10 12:23 PM (#368864 - in reply to #368731)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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wbower3 - 2013-04-10 12:08 AM

Current article in STREETRODDER magazine (June,2013 issue) treats the subject of shrouds. Reccomends a shroud that coverss the entire radiator core'
Says that otherwise the fan may only work on 60% of the core.


======================

thanks for the hint.

I'll proceed in that way.
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dukeboy
Posted 2013-04-10 12:44 PM (#368873 - in reply to #368731)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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wbower3 - 2013-04-09 6:08 PM

Current article in STREETRODDER magazine (June,2013 issue) treats the subject of shrouds. Reccomends a shroud that coverss the entire radiator core'
Says that otherwise the fan may only work on 60% of the core.

T-bone Dummer here,


WOW! Thank you uncle Walt for this VERY valuable hint when dealing with OEM Cooling systems only working on about 60% of the core.
I had NO IDEA it was that much! This will help my build. I wonder how the Street rodder croud figured this out? Was it some form of formula?

I have an extensive database of formulas for figuring out most of these things, but just wondering which one they used?



Edited by dukeboy 2013-04-10 12:45 PM
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57chizler
Posted 2013-04-10 3:15 PM (#368892 - in reply to #368873)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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An 18" fan covers 255 square inches, a 20" X 20" radiator core is 400 square inches. 60% of 400 is 240.
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wbower3
Posted 2013-04-10 5:20 PM (#368914 - in reply to #368873)
Subject: Re: fan shroud


Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!

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dukeboy - 2013-04-10 12:44 PM

wbower3 - 2013-04-09 6:08 PM

Current article in STREETRODDER magazine (June,2013 issue) treats the subject of shrouds. Reccomends a shroud that coverss the entire radiator core'
Says that otherwise the fan may only work on 60% of the core.


I have an extensive database of formulas for figuring out most of these things, but just wondering which one they used



T-bone, they used the digital formula they got from the Radiator Shop. . . . . . . . . . .

Edited by wbower3 2013-04-10 5:21 PM
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wizard
Posted 2013-04-11 2:04 AM (#368968 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island		Perhaps this is useless information, but I got this from a streetracer acquaintance that have been into the motor hobby since back then;
No matter what speed you driving, the wind speed behind the radiator will never exceed 30 km/hour (approximate 19 MPH)
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d500neil
Posted 2013-04-11 2:45 AM (#368976 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: RE: fan shroud



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Location: bishop, ca		Chrysler engineers determined that for non A/C equipped cars, and/or for non heavy-duty
usage (like on Taxis), fan shrouds were effectively useless.

Here's a couple shots of mid-late 60's 440 engines that did not require fan shouds, with their
viscous fan clutches.

These two images are simply typical random screen shots:






(PICT0485.JPG)



(PICT0487.JPG)



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Attachments PICT0485.JPG (106KB - 143 downloads)
Attachments PICT0487.JPG (105KB - 150 downloads)
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dukeboy
Posted 2013-04-11 7:10 AM (#368985 - in reply to #368914)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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wbower3 - 2013-04-10 5:20 PM

dukeboy - 2013-04-10 12:44 PM


I have an extensive database of formulas for figuring out most of these things, but just wondering which one they used


T-bone, they used the digital formula they got from the Radiator Shop. . . . . . . . . . . :o

Tweedle Dummer here,

Thanks Uncle Walt. You know what? Maybe all Auto engineers really DO know all things and are NOT to be questioned about anything and never make any mistakes? Whatcha think Walt? These are just random pictures from history....


"This unattractive boat of a car was released upon late-1950's America. The recession was here and this car was simply too expensive and too fuel hungry for many people to justify buying. What else contributed to the historically abysmal sales that the Edsel saw? The car was the victim of a classic mistake that has doomed many a project by many a company: over hype in marketing. America was made to believe that the Edsel was going to be some kind of heavenly super-car that broke all the rules and stretched the limits of the automotive industry. Imagine their surprise when they instead got an overpriced, bloated and heavy…Ford."



"Classic looks and abhorrent engineering sum this one up. The Twin Cam was one of the first twin cam engines, and turned out to be one of the biggest money and time sucks of all time. Maintaining the car’s fluid spilling, piston incinerating, plug fowling engine required the devotion one expects to give to a dog or a small child. If valve timing, rod integrity, octane measurement and a whole slew of other dormant problems were not constantly checked on, the driver ran the risk of dumping crucial oil, gas, screws and pipes all over the road. Needless to say, he who wishes to go racing and winds up with a dead, smoking hole where the engine used to be is not a satisfied customer. It wasn’t long before word spread and the engine was taken off the market."



Edited by dukeboy 2013-04-11 7:42 AM




(Edsel.jpg)



(1958 MGA Twin Cam.jpg)



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Attachments Edsel.jpg (37KB - 148 downloads)
Attachments 1958 MGA Twin Cam.jpg (49KB - 155 downloads)
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dukeboy
Posted 2013-04-11 7:56 AM (#368991 - in reply to #368985)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Location: Big pimpin'		Here's a few more engineering wonders to chew on....The Factory Chrysler engineers 'Engineered" the Fuel Injection for the best Fuel Economy in their Diesels correct? Yet, you install a "programmer" from the AFTERMARKET and it gets another 5-10 MPG???Wonder why the 'All knowing' didn't "Engineer" this into the Trucks for best MPG/Power?


http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/10/chrysler-recalling-over-200k-veh...

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/toyota-hold-worlds-biggest-car-reca...

No folks, Installing a fan shroud on your F. Looker will improve your cooling. Always error on the side of caution and you'll never Regret it. Of course, if you have a one of none car, then you may want to leave it off.


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wizard
Posted 2013-04-11 8:41 AM (#368993 - in reply to #368991)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island		The links Duke show another problem called "pressing the price from subsuppliers"- this is the result of too much Arabic haggling

As forthe fan shroud, one might want to mount one - if not for any other reason then, that sticking your fingers in the fan might cause a much unwanted overspray, which God forbid is not even near the OEM one
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dukeboy
Posted 2013-04-11 11:58 AM (#369023 - in reply to #368993)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Location: Big pimpin'		Unless of course, you actually Bleed OEM like many here.....Then, you may want to stick your fingers in the fan...
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FIN_NV
Posted 2013-04-11 12:27 PM (#369036 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Location: Northern New Jersey		or get your hair caught in a correct reproduction carb return spring
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dukeboy
Posted 2013-04-11 12:29 PM (#369038 - in reply to #369036)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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FIN_NV - 2013-04-11 12:27 PM

or get your hair caught in a correct reproduction carb return spring


Tweedle Dummer here,

Actually, funny you mentioned that, as I have an extensive database of Folks Who have caught clothing and HAIR in the fans that did NOT have shrouds.

Not a pretty sight.
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FIN_NV
Posted 2013-04-11 12:40 PM (#369041 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Location: Northern New Jersey		So Dukeboy, Just where is Big pimpin?
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dukeboy
Posted 2013-04-11 12:45 PM (#369044 - in reply to #369041)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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FIN_NV - 2013-04-11 12:40 PM

So Dukeboy, Just where is Big pimpin?


Tweedle Dummer here,

As you may, or may not know, "Big Pimpin" ain't easy.......[To find]...

One must first look under Google and type in "Badasstivity". Once there, then searcch keyword "Fan shroud with hayden clutch fan". Once there, search under "Female Dog Better Have my Money"....Then, you search for "pimp clothes", once there, seach under "big Pimpin' " and your there once you instantly feel better about being you.
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FIN_NV
Posted 2013-04-11 2:02 PM (#369055 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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57chizler
Posted 2013-04-11 2:14 PM (#369058 - in reply to #368968)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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wizard - 2013-04-10 11:04 PM

Perhaps this is useless information, but I got this from a streetracer acquaintance that have been into the motor hobby since back then;
No matter what speed you driving, the wind speed behind the radiator will never exceed 30 km/hour (approximate 19 MPH)


I'd have to say B.S. to that. There are some electric fans in use that feel like 50 mph on a Harley when you're standing behind them.
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wizard
Posted 2013-04-11 2:44 PM (#369060 - in reply to #369058)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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57chizler - 2013-04-11 8:14 PM

wizard - 2013-04-10 11:04 PM

Perhaps this is useless information, but I got this from a streetracer acquaintance that have been into the motor hobby since back then;
No matter what speed you driving, the wind speed behind the radiator will never exceed 30 km/hour (approximate 19 MPH)


I'd have to say B.S. to that. There are some electric fans in use that feel like 50 mph on a Harley when you're standing behind them.


Maybe I expressed myself unclear - no fan - only wind speed. This for to understand the resistance of the core
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wbower3
Posted 2013-04-11 5:16 PM (#369079 - in reply to #369055)
Subject: Re: fan shroud


Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!

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FIN_NV - 2013-04-11 2:02 PM

Sounds like a Social Disorder





Don't you mean a Sexually Transmitted Disease? ? ? ? ?
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FIN_NV
Posted 2013-04-11 5:23 PM (#369082 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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dukeboy
Posted 2013-04-12 7:04 AM (#369197 - in reply to #369082)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Location: Big pimpin'		Both are incorrect OEM....It's actually "Social Distortion"....
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FIN_NV
Posted 2013-04-12 8:47 AM (#369212 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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lonesome mopar
Posted 2013-04-16 5:26 AM (#370001 - in reply to #369023)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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dukeboy - 2013-04-11 5:58 PM

Unless of course, you actually Bleed OEM like many here.....Then, you may want to stick your fingers in the fan...



there's even worse than sticking your fingers into the fan.......

Imagine yourself all dressed up, a classy tie on your best shirt, going to a party.
Suddenly along the road the engines starts missing and you pull off to check the carb.
You lean on the engine and your tie gets caught by the blades.
Broken neck instantly?
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Swept57
Posted 2013-04-16 7:47 AM (#370012 - in reply to #370001)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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lonesome mopar - 2013-04-16 2:26 AM
Imagine yourself all dressed up, a classy tie on your best shirt, going to a party.
Suddenly along the road the engines starts missing and you pull off to check the carb.
You lean on the engine and your tie gets caught by the blades.
Broken neck instantly?


I think if you lean over a running engine with a tie on you deserve what you get!
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Handygun
Posted 2013-04-16 5:46 PM (#370115 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud


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Location: STL, MO		Im still amazed at the single 4 intake on what obviously is a maxwedge and the rare prototype solid state regulater on the other mid sixties b motor somebody took the shroud off.
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Swept57
Posted 2013-04-16 9:36 PM (#370159 - in reply to #368976)
Subject: RE: fan shroud



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d500neil - 2013-04-10 11:45 PM

Chrysler engineers determined that for non A/C equipped cars, and/or for non heavy-duty
usage (like on Taxis), fan shrouds were effectively useless.



My 70 challenger with 340 is non-air but does have a shroud.
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dukeboy
Posted 2013-04-18 12:21 PM (#370452 - in reply to #370159)
Subject: RE: fan shroud



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Swept57 - 2013-04-16 9:36 PM

d500neil - 2013-04-10 11:45 PM

Chrysler engineers determined that for non A/C equipped cars, and/or for non heavy-duty
usage (like on Taxis), fan shrouds were effectively useless.



My 70 challenger with 340 is non-air but does have a shroud.
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wbower3
Posted 2013-04-18 3:56 PM (#370494 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud


Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!

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dukeboy
Posted 2013-04-18 7:17 PM (#370536 - in reply to #370494)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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wbower3 - 2013-04-18 3:56 PM

(Chaney, you left one out!)


Tweedle Dummer here,

My records indicate that the OEM amount of smileys were used. Remember Uncle walt, Knowledge is power, but Google Evens up the odds.
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60 dart
Posted 2013-04-19 12:06 AM (#370578 - in reply to #370452)
Subject: RE: fan shroud



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dukeboy - 2013-04-18 12:21 PM

Swept57 - 2013-04-16 9:36 PM

d500neil - 2013-04-10 11:45 PM

Chrysler engineers determined that for non A/C equipped cars, and/or for non heavy-duty
usage (like on Taxis), fan shrouds were effectively useless.



My 70 challenger with 340 is non-air but does have a shroud.
:laugh:


i'd like to see the engineer reports ,,,,,,,,,,,,, seriously !
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dodge59
Posted 2013-04-19 10:47 AM (#370625 - in reply to #333191)
Subject: RE: fan shroud



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d500neil - 2012-08-04 12:06 PM


Here ya go...PLY/DOD/DeS/CHY-IMP




That's what I thought ...... no fan schrouds 1954 and older especially on dodge and plymouth... they weren't forwardlook car designs . chrysler and desoto had longer front ends and moved the core suppors little more forward. needed shrouds.
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lonesome mopar
Posted 2013-04-20 8:54 AM (#370841 - in reply to #370012)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Swept57 - 2013-04-16 1:47 PM

lonesome mopar - 2013-04-16 2:26 AM
Imagine yourself all dressed up, a classy tie on your best shirt, going to a party.
Suddenly along the road the engines starts missing and you pull off to check the carb.
You lean on the engine and your tie gets caught by the blades.
Broken neck instantly?


I think if you lean over a running engine with a tie on you deserve what you get!



Hey I am not that crazy to work on engine with a tie.....!
But anybody who's in a hurry or in a panic situation, could make the mistake, I suppose.

and yes I do dress up when going to a good party ... and sometimes even a tie, like all old men ...!
I guess that is because glamorous gals down here seem to prefer well dressed men. (at least for the arrival...)

:

Edited by lonesome mopar 2013-04-20 12:36 PM
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lonesome mopar
Posted 2013-04-21 3:44 PM (#371067 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Location: Milano, Italy		Ok, enough with chat time, back to mechanics

I am in the process of building my own fan shroud, and I noticed that many shrouds from other cars have one third of the fan uncovered by the shroud.

That seems funny to me, as the ducted fan propellers and turbofan propellers (such as in some airplanes) have the fan in the duct, and not partially protruding.

a little research with vikipedia on ducted fan and turbofan engines gives the following info:

"" A ducted fan is a propulsion arrangement whereby a fan, which is a type of propeller, is mounted within a cylindrical shroud or duct.......
"" Ducted fans usually have an odd number of blades to prevent resonance in the duct.......
"" By reducing propeller blade tip losses, the ducted fan is more efficient in producing thrust than a conventional propeller......
"" Ducted fans are quieter than propellers: they shield the blade noise, and reduce the tip speed and intensity of the tip vortices both of which contribute to noise production...................

So since many cars have the shroud shorter than the fan blades, what I am missing here?

shall I make my duct longer than the blades (covering them) or shorter?



Edited by lonesome mopar 2013-04-21 3:49 PM
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57chizler
Posted 2013-04-21 5:01 PM (#371070 - in reply to #371067)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Most factory shrouds are thin material with no ring that would form a "duct". Since the same shroud is used with fans of varying blade width and pitch, the actual amount of the fan blade that is in/out of the shroud also varies.

If you're building a shroud from scratch or modifying a factory shroud, I would definitely make it with a duct ring at least as deep as the fan blade pitch.
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60 dart
Posted 2013-04-21 6:02 PM (#371075 - in reply to #371067)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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lonesome mopar - 2013-04-21 3:44 PM

Ok, enough with chat time, back to mechanics

I am in the process of building my own fan shroud, and I noticed that many shrouds from other cars have one third of the fan uncovered by the shroud.

That seems funny to me, as the ducted fan propellers and turbofan propellers (such as in some airplanes) have the fan in the duct, and not partially protruding.

a little research with vikipedia on ducted fan and turbofan engines gives the following info:

"" A ducted fan is a propulsion arrangement whereby a fan, which is a type of propeller, is mounted within a cylindrical shroud or duct.......
"" Ducted fans usually have an odd number of blades to prevent resonance in the duct.......
"" By reducing propeller blade tip losses, the ducted fan is more efficient in producing thrust than a conventional propeller......
"" Ducted fans are quieter than propellers: they shield the blade noise, and reduce the tip speed and intensity of the tip vortices both of which contribute to noise production...................

So since many cars have the shroud shorter than the fan blades, what I am missing here?

shall I make my duct longer than the blades (covering them) or shorter?


you gotta be careful not to bring the neck of the shroud back too far . too far back = too much air to the center of motor . the entire engine needs
to get air as equal as possible . thats why the shroud in total should leave at least some blade exposed , so the blade can disperse ----------------------------later

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wbower3
Posted 2013-04-21 8:39 PM (#371091 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud


Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!

Posts: 5358
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Location: Heaven Above (Formerly Oklahoma City,OK)		Recent article on engine cooling via fans, lectric and mechanical in STREETRODDER mag., indictes that 1/3 of the blades should be "in" the shroud and 2/3rds 'out' of the shroud. other wise the air flow may
all hit the front of the engine and bounce back, reducing the overall air flow.

Least ways, that's my understanding of what I read.
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lonesome mopar
Posted 2013-04-22 6:30 AM (#371150 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Thank you guys.
Your help is always precious and useful.

My problem now is, I already finished my shroud, which covers the entire fan.

I guess I have to study some stainless steel plate deflector in front of the distribution cover so that the airflow is deflected sideways.......or yank this shroud and buid another one.

mmmmmmmmhhh

Edited by lonesome mopar 2013-04-22 6:33 AM
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lonesome mopar
Posted 2013-04-22 10:23 AM (#371183 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



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Location: Milano, Italy		.....@57chizler: actually I studied a form of shroud that does not interfere with the moving parts and with the radiator components, as well as being decently easy to assemble and remove.
It is made of zinc plated metal sheet.
I will post pics. I am even thinking to offer the model for sale. Problem is, the craftmanship for metal sheet is rather expensive, down here.
I'll post some pics.


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wbower3
Posted 2013-04-22 5:37 PM (#371279 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud


Walter passed away on Jul 29, 2014. We will miss you, Walt!

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Location: Heaven Above (Formerly Oklahoma City,OK)		Post your pic, Antonio. I need to build and install one on my '38 Dodge before I start driving it this summer.
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lonesome mopar
Posted 2013-04-23 10:53 AM (#371417 - in reply to #333116)
Subject: Re: fan shroud



Extreme Veteran

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Location: Milano, Italy
..... can't reduce the pics to the 50 kb requested size for the moment ... got to do it at home. maybe tomorrow.

Thanks for the interest !

Edited by lonesome mopar 2013-04-23 10:55 AM
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