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Chrome58

Posted 2012-01-09 3:03 PM (#302846)
Subject: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

Expert

Posts: 1316
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Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels

Hi,

When I bought my car, the front left vent window frame was broken (the front bracket was separated from the frame).
Recently I have started putting back the windows, and the question of fixing that vent window frame arose.

I tried to glue it twice with a miracle "It-can-glue-anything-including-metal" glue, but broke it twice again when I started handling it.
I then proceeded to glue it with a "Special-glue-from-a-major-manufacturer-specific-for-metal" glue, but broke it a third time when I tried to assemble it to the door.
(BTW I have a hard time putting it back in the door, but that's another matter ...)

If I'm not mistaken, that vent window frame is made of pot metal, therefore it cannot be welded.
I do have a special welding material that is supposed to be able to weld pot metal, but I wouldn't trust it for that case.

What about a threaded stud going in both pieces ?
Any other solution ?
Or should I search for a new vent window frame ?

Thanks.

PS : It looks polished because I used a wire wheel to remove the excess of glue from the previous attempt ...

Edited by Chrome58 2012-01-09 3:06 PM

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wizard

Posted 2012-01-09 3:08 PM (#302848 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: RE: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

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Posts: 13055
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island

Vincent, could you take a picture with the two broken parts in their approximate position? I cannot get how they fit together - maybe I could figure out something.

Chrome58

Posted 2012-01-09 3:24 PM (#302853 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

Expert

Posts: 1316
1000

Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels

Sven, here it is :

Edited by Chrome58 2012-01-09 3:25 PM

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wizard

Posted 2012-01-09 3:47 PM (#302858 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

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Posts: 13055
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island

I'll try to think of something tomorrow Vincent, but it is a point that will be subject to all the forces from the weatherstrip each time you close the door. If you can get a new frame, it will surely be better.

GaryS

Posted 2012-01-09 6:19 PM (#302893 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

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Posts: 1207
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Location: Ponder, TX

Silver solder is used to fill voids in pot metal, but I doubt it would be strong enough to hold without some reinforcement. If the two pieces can be held together some way, maybe a groove could be machined that would allow you to lay a metal pin in the groove to tie the parts together, and then silver solder everything together.

That said, I agree that it would be a better idea to find another frame.

big m

Posted 2012-01-09 8:41 PM (#302919 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

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Location: Williams California

I can check to see if I have an unbroken frame, Vincent.

---John

ronbo97

Posted 2012-01-09 10:08 PM (#302940 - in reply to #302919)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

Expert

Posts: 4043
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Location: Connecticut

JB Weld should be a strong enough epoxy to hold it.

Ron

Chrome58

Posted 2012-01-10 12:58 AM (#302962 - in reply to #302940)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

Expert

Posts: 1316
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Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels

ronbo97 - 2012-01-10 4:08 AM

JB Weld should be a strong enough epoxy to hold it.

Thanks Ron, but the second time I used an epoxy glue, a 2 components job, which you had to mix before using.
And it was specifically designed for metal.
But it broke nevertheless.

Edited by Chrome58 2012-01-10 12:59 AM

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wizard

Posted 2012-01-10 2:15 AM (#302970 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+

Posts: 13055
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island

It's tricky to fix that broken frame Vincent, the only thing that might work is to install a threaded stud together with a reinforcement bracket. If it is possible to fit the stud, special sleeve and nut without interferences in the door, then this solution might work.
There is absolutely no glue in the world that can hold - the forces comes sideways each time the door is closed. It can be welded, but that will make it weak as well. The old method to "weld" pot metal, was to make a casting form out of asbestos and plaster and actually "recast" a broken piece with a torch - that means finishing work and recroming anyway.

Best thing for sure is a decent "new" frame.

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60 dart

Posted 2012-01-10 2:45 AM (#302973 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA

drill two holes 1/8th . for stainless dowels in both pieces . use 5 minute epoxy to secure . after that sets up reclean the break area , rough it up and surround it with a new batch of the epoxy or j-b weld . i like the wiz's idea also ---------------------------------later

Chrome58

Posted 2012-01-10 5:33 AM (#302984 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

Expert

Posts: 1316
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Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels

Thanks to both of you for your ideas.

I know I won't be able to use the additional bracket, because the bracket's thickness would prevent the installation of the rubber grommet that surrounds the frame at that location.

I'll check tonight to see if there is space for the nut and sleeve, but I doubt it.

However, since the force that broke the bond each time was a lateral one, I think I only need to secure that axis. Maybe the use of two studs, threaded and glued in the upper frame part and glued in the lower one, with an additional epoxy between them, would do the trick.

EDIT : I just bought online a JB Weld set in the UK ... I'll try with that compound, maybe it's better than my epoxy.

Edited by Chrome58 2012-01-10 6:08 AM

ronbo97

Posted 2012-01-10 10:03 AM (#303012 - in reply to #302984)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

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Posts: 4043
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Location: Connecticut

Be sure to grind off the shiny chrome to get to the underlying potmetal. Also build the JB Weld up in several layers. And finally, give it the full 24 hours to completely dry.

I've heard that JB Weld is used to fix cracks in engine blocks. Never tried that personally, though.

Ron

61plymy

Posted 2012-01-10 4:42 PM (#303070 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

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Location: Snohomish, WA.

Take it to a good chrome shop. They can muggy weld it back together and then re-chrome the whole thing.

A GOOD shop that specializes in repairs etc.

Mike

Chrome58

Posted 2012-01-22 5:51 AM (#304689 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

Expert

Posts: 1316
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Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels

I've looked into the solution given by wizard ...
The problem is that the window frame side is very shallow, because of the U-shaped frame that seats the rubber gasket.
It won't allow more that 4 or 5mm (3/16") for the theaded stud to go in.

Chrome58

Posted 2012-05-04 5:00 AM (#319535 - in reply to #302846)
Subject: Re: Broken vent window frame - How do I fix it ?

Expert

Posts: 1316
1000

Location: Belgium, 40 miles south of Brussels

Just to let you know, I finally did repair that broken vent window frame, using JB Weld and two 3mm hardened steel studs.
Now I just have to wait to see if the repair will hold the test of time.

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