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| Advice desperately needed . In process of bringing back a 59 Dodge Sedan . With the exception of some trim car is done except for rear door handle installation . Thought installation would be a snap when I disassembled car for paint but can't get handle installed and working . I can describe how parts fall when I install piece but don't know how they should fall . There may be some adjustment to help installation but repair manual doesn't address this issue . Any help would be greatly appreciated . Thanks .
Phil |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
  
Location: bishop, ca | Phil, just as a starting point, I presume that the body paint is well set up and aged; it is easy to chip door paint when
fussing with a door handle installation.
Can you post up pics showing what you've got in front of you?
On the 2-doors, there are access holes in the door jamb for the handle operation adjustments.
On the 2-doors/front doors, it can be a PITA to get the door keys to work, in conjunction with the door opening mechanisms.
I would think that the rear doors would be a lot easier to have their handles be installed.
So, what's the hang-ups (literally)?
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| I will do what it takes to get this done . Basically the exterior is done except for the two rear handles AND the passenger eyebrow which I need to locate . I live in New York City where traffic and careless people make driving an old piece of American Iron very stressful . The car is garaged by my parents house in Pa . Pictures have to wait until I get there again . Further complicating the picture issue is that I don't know how to post a picture . I don't know if I could even get a picture of the inside of the door anyway . When I dismantled the chrome I remember saying to myself that I would have great difficulty getting the front handles back in and operasting but also remarking that the rear handles were a cinch . Quite the contrary in reality . I eyeballed the linkage adjustment on the two fronts and got them to work on the first try . The rears however continue to stump me .
The door mechanism has what I will call a square plate which when pushed on opens the door smooth as silk . The door handle has what I will call a finger which upon working the handle appears to be able to push something . The hangup is that the handle finger falls behind the square plate when the handle is oinstalled and so when the handle is activated the finger pushes on nothing . Thanks again for your trying to help .
Phil |
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Expert
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Location: Connecticut | None of my cars have the two extra doors, but I'm sure I've removed rear door handles in the past (junkyards, etc.). From memory, you may want to try to install the handles with movable part of the handle pulled all the way out. Then lower it after it's slotted in the door. Be sure to tighten the 3/8" nuts on the shafts after slotting them thru the small holes. Ron
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...And, make sure that the handle-base is properly located against the door, so that it doesn't get moved-around (scratching or
chipping the paint) when you are tightening down the assembly, to/against the door (been there/done that...sucks).
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| Thanks for the suggestions all well taken . I have spent several hours attempting to get the handles installed . This installation also holds up the interior door panel installation so this problem is holding up the final completion of the car . You guys , Ron and Neil , have pretty much pointed out two very important considerations . I have been afraid of scratching the paint since I am constantly putting the handle on and off . Despite putting a layer of electric tape around the edge of the handle I have put a small scratch in the paint . Luckily , so far the scratch is hidden by the handle . I have also tried installing the handle by pulling up on the handle as I put it on while pulling on the interior door handle to make sure the finger is in front of the square plate . At this point the finger is in front of the square plate but the handle can't go flush to the door . Again , thanks for all the input . There must be some simple mechanical consideration I am missing ; I hope one of you guys can point it out .
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Expert
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Location: Connecticut | Just a thought...are you sure you're installing the right rear door handle on the right side, and vice versa ?
Ron
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| Again thanks for the thought , all are appreciated . The handles were marked as they were removed so they are being installed in proper hole . The solution is probably as simple as the solution you suggested so I would appreciate all comments to nail this thing down . Again thanks for your time . If one guy with a sedan reads this there is a good chance the problem could be solved . |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Newcastle Australia | I'm in the same boat. I purchased another door a few weeks ago so I could practice.
Here's what I have come up with. (not easy to explain)
Left side door:
The start position is the handle at 90 degrees to the door.
Left thumb depressing the spring and both hands on the handle body. You actually use your finger behind the handle to manipulate the handle. I found it more comforting to put a piece of thin cardboard across the top of the handle on the good door. Don't tape it into place it will just sit there.
As you slide the handle body in you also rotate it down until it gets parallel to the door.
Now you are at the position where it just won't fit!! The handle mechanism is longer than the hole.
The front of the handle body goes in first. But even then there doesn't appear to be enough space to get the rear of the handle body in.
If you bring the front of the handle body out about 1/8 inch you will find it will slip forward slightly. (probably 1/16 inch)
With fingers behind the handle body you can then manipulate the handle so that the rear slips in. I found that it is still a friction fit in that with the thickness of new paint and new chrome I still chipped the paint at the rear of the opening. But then it’s hidden anyway.
Here’s another small tip. Don’t continue to pursue it if it doesn’t work first time. Frustration leads to scratched paint. Walk away and come back in 10 minutes and start again. I also found sitting down and staring at it with a beer in my hand also helped.
Good luck!
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Location: Newcastle Australia | And then I look at the final picture and think what happened to the hole for the little piece of stainless trim?
My darling wife tells me I don't make sense.
Does this help?
Now I haven't tried to be gentle and save the paint otherwise the video gets too long. But I think you will get the gist of it.
http://youtu.be/oqMcx-Ozwd0
Edited by lozrox58 2012-06-10 10:52 PM
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| Thanks for the time you took trying to help . Your explanation does describe the installation of the handle which does require a bit of turning and twisting . I can get the handle in just fine ; i have figured out how to twist and turn to get it installed . When I install it the handle fits flush to the door and it looks as it should . The problem is that the handle doesn't open the door . I need to know what that finger on the handle meshes with to open the door . Again thanks for the detailed explanation and pics . If I get thge handles installed the car is done except for the passenger eyebrow . That eyebrow was repaired by the chromer and unfortunately it doesn't follow the contour of the sheetmetal . |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Newcastle Australia | I'll show a couple of photos of the handle and mechanism.
The lever on the door lock pushes into the lock as shown by the orange knife. You can see the lock in the photo has been repaired in this area. The finger on the handle should push this lever in. If it's covered with dust and grime then it will be tight, but if it's nice and clean and well lubricated it should slide in very easily.
The finger on the handle simply butts against that lever. All of my handles have been repaired so I assume there is a design problem with the trigger of the handle. As I don't have anything in good condition, I have repaired mine so they look like this one, with a flat area on the bottom so it slides on the trigger. It's common for both the rivets on the trigger to have a lot of play as well.
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| I can't thank you enough for the time , energy and patience . Based on your photos I believe I understand how the system works . I believe the finger on the handle pushes the square plate inside the door and opens the door . My problem is that the finger on my installation always falls behind that square plate and so doesn't push on that plate . I live in New York City where driving an old car is not practical due to traffic . The car is stored and used by my parents who live in a rural setting . I will use your pics to study the finger on my handle to see if the handle is the problem the next time up there . I seriously doubt that since it worked well before I took it apart . Again thanks for your very generous attempt at educating me . If something comes to mind please run it my way . Perhaps there is an adjustment that moves the position of that square plate on the mechanism inside the door . |
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| In the xta l522 and 523 photo there seems to be some linkage in the backround that is part of the inside door mechanism . If that is linkage that opens the door that is my problem as it is missing . If you can tell me what that linkage looking "thing ' is I would appreciate it . Thanks . |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Right.......the "finger" has to fit inside the square-guy-receptacle.
The finger gets to be moved quarda-liniarly, from the key's movement, and the square reacts to the finger's movement to lock
or release the door locking.
Waitasecond----that's how the keyed FRONT doors operate.
Forgettabout it....the rear doors are from Venus; fronts are from Mars-ville.
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Location: Newcastle Australia | Maybe I should have included the next photo.
If you mean the long lever - that goes to the door lock mechanism at the front of the door.
Now if that's missing and the door is in the lock position???
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Member
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| Thanks again . That linkage I questioned you about runs inside the door to the inside handle ; that I have and is completely operable . I thought that linkage might have connected to the outside handle . Your pictures make it clear now that I have all the parts necessary . My problem is that the finger on the outside handle pushes on nothing when the outside handle is operated . Do you know if the finger on the outside handle falls in front of that square plate and pushes on it or does the finger engage with the side of the square plate and lifts the square plate ?
Edited by 59dodge 2012-06-13 8:32 AM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Newcastle Australia | The finger on the handle pushes on the square plate on the door lock.
In picture xtal_523 above the orange knife shows the direction of movement of the square plate. The lever behind the plate moves in a horizontal direction.
picture 523 the lever is depressed. 521 it is in relaxed state.
I'd suggest the problem is most likely the finger on the handle. |
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| Thanks to your very patient and detailed explanation and inclusion of pics it appears that I was correct in assuming that the tang of the finger has to fall in front of that square plate of the opening mechanism ; mine does not . I have to figure out why the tang on the finger falls behind that square plate . Your explanation seems the most likely scenario , namely that the handle is at fault . I will have to wait until I get to the car and carefully check out that handle . At this point I am troubled with this explanation because the handle worked well before but in the absence of any adjustments to move that square plateyour suspicion seems likely . If any other ideas pop into mind please forward them . Again I thank you for your time and energy . I will keep you posted as to the outcome . |
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Expert
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Location: Connecticut | Here's another thought: Could the door be in the locked position and in order to correctly install the handle, it needs to be unlocked ? Ron
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | What's disturbing my sleep is that the rear door handles should be stone-axe simple in operation.
There's no key to open them; their locking operation is controlled by a simple flipper-lever on the inner trim panel.
There ought to be a basic locking-ratchet mechanism which controls whether the handle moves (and releases the
door's contact-grip on the quarter panel's latch ).
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| Neil I agree that the installation should be a no brainer . I have done quite a bit of wrenching on this and many other cars but this rear handle is just frustrating . There is no direct connecting mechanism between the handle and the door mechanism . As you flip up the handle a finger on the handle inside the door moves about 1 inch . I believe this finger as it moves at first contacts the square plate on the opening mechanism and as the finger continues moving forward opens the door . Problem is that the finger is falling behind the square plate so that when the finger moves forward it contacts nothing . Either the handle is damaged ; I am highly suspicious of this since the handle worked fine or there is an adjustment that allows me to move the position of that plate . The solution , probably super simple in nature , is disturbing more than my sleep . Thanks for the comment |
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Expert
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Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | Hi guys... so I apologize if someone mentioned this... and I'm not a '59 expert... but are the '59 Dodge rear handles a one-year only item? With the trim and stuff-- I think they are cast so they flow into the fin molding. Are we sure we are using the right part? Just a thought.
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Location: Connecticut | They should be the same, 57-9. Also 57-9 Desoto and Chrysler rear door handles should work if you are testing to find the problem.
Ron |
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Expert
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Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | Not sure... it seems like it would fit, but the '59-only rear door handle is different than the other years, with those trim tabs on each side, no? Or this is for a wagon? |
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Expert
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Location: Connecticut | Parts book says that there are two flavors of rear door handle for 59 Dodge: One that mounts flush with the mouldings and the other that mounts on top of the mouldings. Maybe you have one when you should have the other ?
Ron
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Expert
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | VVap has the handles, NOS. |
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Member
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| Thanks for the updates . Just came from area where car is stored and nailed down the problem with one side . The door handle and mechanism works as I believed . I worked on only the right side handle during the winter since opening the door on the other side would hit my 58 Roadmaster . This time up I pulled the car out of the garage and worked on the left handle . I noticed that the handle would just begin the operation of the mechanism but didn't have enough movement of the finger to fully operate the mechanism and open the door . I removed the handle and found the following . Firstly the three rivets involved in pushing the finger had a trmendous amount of play . Secondly a small offset piece of sheet metal connecting the handle to the finger was bent and slightly torn . These two defects prevented the finger from moving the square plate of the mechanism enough to open the door . The problem on the other side seems much more involved . On that side the finger falls behind the square and so doesn't push on anything . I purchased two new handles . I am positive that the new handle will work the left door . I am hoping the new right handle will work the right door but that door will probably need more diagnosis . I rebuilt the right door handle by making new rivets and bending and shaping a new off set piece . I will see if it works but I will definitely install the NOS handle just purchased . Thanks again for all your input . |
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| Door handle problem solved but more disastrous problem uncovered . Last time up brought up my bad left handle after redoing the rivets and bending a new "S" connector and it installed and works fine . I then proceded to install a brand new handle on the right side . The new handle had the finger in the right position , namely in front of that square of the door mechanism but it failed to push the square plate enough to open the door . I spent so much attention looking for a defective mechanism and or defective handle that I was blind to the real problem . The guy who painted the car must have put some bondo on that door . The failure of the handle to conform to the contour of the door proves this . The left handle hugs the door with no apparent gap . The right handle has about a 3/16 " gap in the middle . This gap leaves the handle finger about 3/16 " away from that square plate preventing the mechanism from being fully actuated . I am now left with the problem of having that door worked on . The guy who did the car is in Ohio and the car is in Pa . Thanks again for everyones input . |
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Phil, yikes now what? |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Newcastle Australia | That sounds nasty. I hope Pa is close to Ohio. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yeah; you want to get the door 'fixed', but, there should be a way to jury-rig (Navy term) that finger-adjuster, or its length,
and/or the square-receptacle, so that their engagement is functionally efficient.
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| You are right . A weld of a piece of shim stock on that finger will do . I may go that route but I am a bit crazy . Next time up I will evaluate grinding down the high spot or welding a shim on the finger . The weld solution is acceptable but masks a flaw in the door ; the chrome will cover the small gap . I am against that in principle even though it is much cheaper . . I may go the route of fixing the flaw because it is the right thing to do and also because I damaged the paint while trying to get the handle installed correctly . I put masking tape on the handle and door surface to protect the paint . I noticed that the handle surface was cutting into the masking tape . I then decided to put electric tape to protect the paint . When I removed the tape the next day I noticed that the electric tape removed or reacted with the clear coat and dulled it . The damage is just on the upper very small portion of the door . I will decide what to do nexct time up . |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That 'finger' may be pot metal; not friendly to welding.
I'd work/play/adjust (with) the steel square-receptacle, but check this out: you could go buy a length of thin copper or steel
("model-car") tubing, at a hardware/lumber store, and crimp it tightly over the finger, to extend its length.
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| Neil , I like that idea to establish a thickness but I would weld a shim on with this experimentally determined thickness to help insure that the shim doesn't eventually fall away . Thanks for the idea . |
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Expert
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Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | I believe that area of the handle will not tolerate welding a build up shim as the pot metal handle is right up against the contact tang. Maybe drill a small hole and set screw or the same bonding glue used on modern door panels. |
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rear door handle 59 Dodge Sedan
