|
|
FwdLk56's Original Account
Posts: 894
  
Location: Midwest USA | while the two are mathematically related and you can not increase one when building an engine without increasing the other, which of the two do you feel "more important" when it comes to engine design?
there's the old adage that "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races", but this adage has been a constant debate since the dawn of "racing"...
which side are you on?
only one vote per member...
and don't let the "wording" of the question sway your vote - this is a topic that we have ALL heard over the years, so i'm sure we ALL have a "vote" that isn't easily swayed by however the question is "worded"...
Edited by GearSpear 2012-09-19 7:04 PM
|
|
| |
|
Location: Indiana | Oh man, not this again!
This is one of those dead horses that keeps getting beat to a bloody pulp but somehow manages to stand back up on all fours.
This boils down to your definition of just what a "race" is.
As a former drag strip hobbyist/enthusiast - torque, hands down, no contest.
But if I were allowed to vote twice, I'd cast a vote for both! |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3400
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | As stated in the other thread, I feel for a drag race that since max horsepower is reached at a momentary high rpm that it may have less net effect than a broad torque curve. Again most important in a heavy car. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1102
Location: Hayward, Calif | Well, the 'old school' thought,,,,,,,,,,,,,, takes torque to get it going and horsepower to keep it going. Just my 2 cents worth. |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | I like Torque AND Horsepower. If you build your engine correctly, you will have ample amounts of both.
If not, there's always Nitrous.
Look at it this way. A dumptruck has all kinds of torque, but you ain't winnin' no drag races with the d@mn thing.
A Short rod/Stroke engine makes all kinds of upper RPM Horsepower, but you better not let the R's drop....
Edited by dukeboy 2012-09-19 9:10 PM
|
|
| |
|
FwdLk56's Original Account
Posts: 894
Location: Midwest USA | there's none of neither on a rice rocket, but a tiny 500cc will eat a 500hp for breakfast...
Hades, we have a local Steak 'n' Shake waitress chick on a 600cc rice rocket that hasn't lost yet to any of the muscle-car guys that spout at the mouth and "challenge" her...
Edited by GearSpear 2012-09-19 9:19 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | GearSpear - 2012-09-19 9:14 PM
there's none of neither on a rice rocket, but a tiny 500cc will eat a 500hp for breakfast...
You are comparing apples to oranges here. Torque VS HP in a given scenario not Power to weight VS HP Vs Torque.
oh, and BTW: a 500cc that weighs 500 LBS against 500 HP that weighs 500 LBS. |
|
| |
|
FwdLk56's Original Account
Posts: 894
Location: Midwest USA | that's what i've been trying to say all along, that WEIGHT has to be factored in also...
but didn't you try to throw a dump truck into the mix, lol...
so yeah, of course i'm going to retaliate the dump truck with a rice rocket  |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | I refer to Torque Engines as "Dumptruck" engines cause they are good for torque and you won't win any races with 'em.
Basically, weight cannot be a factor, or you will cancel out your findings. You will have the Rice Rocket guys one the HP end, but the Cruise ship guys on the Torque end. Either of these two engines gets swapped around to the other and it's all over.
Torquey engines begin to run out of steam long before High Horsepower engines do. High HP engines are "peaky" at best.
Where one gets you off the line(Torquey engine), but runs out of steam half track, the HP engine reels you in like a catfish.
Then, you get into gearing and converters/trans gear ratios, 60 Ft. times, reaction times, etc. It can go on forever. You can set up any scenario to allow the Torquey engine, or the HP engine to win based on what you gave one vehicle and wouldn't allow on the other.
This is how weight ballast became legal in Drag Racing. Handicapping.
Edited by dukeboy 2012-09-19 9:31 PM
|
|
| |
|
FwdLk56's Original Account
Posts: 894
Location: Midwest USA | i fully agree...
the two do go hand in hand though...
find me one engine where the two numbers aren't within 50 or so from each other...
well, MOST engines anyway - we throw things like Ferrari's into the fray and we start talkin' 150-some between the two numbers...
BUT if we start talkin' Ferrari's, we also start talkin' LOW-RPM *torque* coupled with HIGH-RPM horsepower...
and "oddities" like torque DECREASING with rpm while horsepower INCREASES with rpm, some very unorthodox and atypical "curves"...
especially compared to what most of us are accustomed to seeing... |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Check out the GM 572 Crate engine. Something like 650 HP and 650 Ft lbs of torque for Something like $20K. Of course, we have been talking the RACING side of things here. I personally believe TORQUE is KING on the STREET, as MOST people drive at lower rpms. Therefore, you will use torque ALOT more than upper RPM HP.
PS: Don't do Ferarri's....Too much Coin for too little delivered.
Edited by dukeboy 2012-09-19 10:31 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3400
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | My pictured race car had 515 hp at 6,800, and averaged 460 ft/lb of torque from 3800-5500 rpm's peaking at 520 at 4,800. 3,500 lb car with 9 inch tire and TF going 11.0's at 122, NHRA legal stocker.
Edited by Shep 2012-09-20 9:39 AM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | "torque won't win any races" I guess Dukeboy hasn't seen any diesel pickups weighing 6000 lb and turning in the 10s. |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | 58coupe - 2012-09-20 11:00 AM
"torque won't win any races" I guess Dukeboy hasn't seen any diesel pickups weighing 6000 lb and turning in the 10s.
Obviously, you are confused here, and don't understand what's being talked about. Lemme see if I can help you understand a little bit about this... If you had actually read what I typed, I don't recall anybody mentioning anything about a $90K Diesel truck with a Turbo the size of a small house. I'm referring to normally aspirated.
Adding things like Blowers/turbos/nitrous/etc. will effect BOTH HP and TORQUE, as I mentioned earlier.
And we have one Diesel at the shop here, we work on, that runs in the 9's.  It makes in the neighborhood of around $1200 HP AND over 1000 Ft. Lbs of TORQUE...You have to have BOTH to run those numbers.
A train locomotive engine makes GOBS of torque, but has around a 1500 RPM limit. Not gonna win many races.
While weed eater has plenty top end RPM power, you better not hit thick, tall grass with it.
Hope this help you to understand...
Edited by dukeboy 2012-09-20 12:43 PM
|
|
| |
Torque versus Horsepower
