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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 394
 
Location: Royal Oak, MI | Someone help me out here. I swear that there's a 318 "Dual Fury" poly engine in this '58 Fury that was on the Mecum auction block in 2012, but the video graphics and auction announcer say that the engine is a 350 Golden Commando (big block). Am I crazy?
https://youtu.be/p4ZTx_JpwWE
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 394
Location: Royal Oak, MI | Just to clarify... I'm talking about the auction car (starting at about 0:21 in the video), not the Fury in the photos in the first part of the video. |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
| Yeah they made a mistake...Its a poly in there. |
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Expert
Posts: 2003
Location: Branson, MO | The distributor is on the front of the engine - a "B" block for sure on the introduction but the car itself does not have this engine. It is a poly. I do know the '58 Fury was available with a 350 CID fuel injected engine which gave the owners fits because they didn't run all that well. Plymouth offered to replace the fuel injection with two 4 barrels as shown in the pictures. If I'm not mistaken, the 350 was still a poly engine and not the "B" block that has more familiarity with the 361s on up.
Edited by Viper Guy 2015-08-17 12:24 AM
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Location: Parts Unknown | That's the quick and easy way to tell .... distributor in back = poly
distributor in front = wedge.
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC |
The 350 was a B block engine. The B block appeared for the 1958 model year and was available as either 350 (1958 only) or 361. The biggest A block poly was the 326 built in 1959 for the Dodge Coronet.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 394
Location: Royal Oak, MI | Doctor DeSoto - 2015-08-17 12:23 AM
That's the quick and easy way to tell .... distributor in back = poly
distributor in front = wedge.
Yes, that's what I thought.
I wonder if the buyer of the Mecum auction car actually purchased it thinking that it was a Golden Commando? |
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | Not having attended one of these auctions, it appears that interested buyers are on stage looking at the car. I know I would not bid on a car that i did not look at. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 782
Location: Edmonton, Alberta | Agreed.....I see that car in the first section has a B engine, but the one at the auction is most definitely a poly. |
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Expert
Posts: 1493
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | It's the 318 dual quad in the part cammed off a TV. Marketing name: V-800 Dual Fury engine. Those guys on the Velocity Network get stuff wrong all the time. The 350 dual-quad wedge motor was the "Golden Commando," and was the basis for the B and RB engines for 30 years. Wedge-powered 58 Plymouth's are worth at least 20% more in comparable condition. Poly engines started out as the same block as the early Hemis. The biggest bore of the 318 block was a Canadian 326, although engines with similar roots in poly form came in as Chrysler's 357. Gen 1 Hemis (non-modified) topped out at 392 cubic inches. and could be tweaked to make 390 HP, as opposed to the 290 HP of the poly 318 in dual quad form. |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | JT Vincent - 2015-08-20 1:23 AM
It's the 318 dual quad in the part cammed off a TV. Marketing name: V-800 Dual Fury engine. Those guys on the Velocity Network get stuff wrong all the time. The 350 dual-quad wedge motor was the "Golden Commando," and was the basis for the B and RB engines for 30 years. Wedge-powered 58 Plymouth's are worth at least 20% more in comparable condition. Poly engines started out as the same block as the early Hemis. The biggest bore of the 318 block was a Canadian 326, although engines with similar roots in poly form came in as Chrysler's 357. Gen 1 Hemis (non-modified) topped out at 392 cubic inches. and could be tweaked to make 390 HP, as opposed to the 290 HP of the poly 318 in dual quad form.
The 326 was American - 1959 Dodge Coronet. Chrysler Canada built the A block poly in one version from 1958 through to 1964 - the 313. They then built the 318 for 1965 to 1967 - one year longer than in the U.S.
Both Dodge and Chrysler built poly versions of their hemis, and both started in 1955. The poly engines used in 1955 Plymouths were actually Dodge engines. The 1955 Chrysler Windsor used a poly 301 - the 331 block with a smaller bore. Chrysler would offer the Windsor with a 331 poly in the U.S. and a 354 poly in 1957-58. Canadian 1956 Chrysler Windsors used the A block 303 poly with a 4-bbl carb.
DeSoto never built a poly version of their hemi. The poly in the 1957 DeSoto Firesweep was actually a Dodge engine. |
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | When you refer to the different engines as 'dodge' or "Desoto" engines were they actually any difference in them (the same size of course) and/or were they actually being built on different assembly lines but to the same engineering drawings? Or were they the same basic dimensional blocks and heads but with differing cams, valves and other smaller design elements? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 888
Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon |
There is very little in terms of parts interchange between the Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge and Plymouth engines when speaking of Hemi and Poly design.
Yes, some parts do swap but I won't tune this into a treatise.
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | Thanks, I just realized you were talking pre-B block. Did that change with the B block designs so that things became pretty much interchangeable? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 888
Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | In general terms, B&RB engines don't have brand-specific identities. Most B parts interchange (as do the RB parts) within their specific, individual, 'age-groups'.....Pre-62 cranks in either B or RB are different from 62-on, and of course the introduction of cast cranks in 1972 (although forged cranks were still found as late as 1976 in some applications). Cylinder heads have running changes for goofy stuff like generator/alternator mounts as well as valve cover hold-down bolt count. Other minutiae abound.... |
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | jimntempe - 2015-08-20 2:10 PM
When you refer to the different engines as 'dodge' or "Desoto" engines were they actually any difference in them (the same size of course) and/or were they actually being built on different assembly lines but to the same engineering drawings? Or were they the same basic dimensional blocks and heads but with differing cams, valves and other smaller design elements?
The pre-B/RB Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler engines were hemis, but that is where the similarity ends. The bore centres (distance from the centre of one bore to the centre of the next one) is different for all three - Dodge the smallest, Chrysler the largest and DeSoto between the two. This means different block lengths, different crankshaft/camshaft lengths and different main bearing spacing.
Thus nothing will interchange between the three - not even manifolds. The blocks are totally different for the three.
Chrysler built their engines at East Jefferson, I believe, Dodge at the Dodge Main (Hamtramck) and DeSoto at the former Graham-Paige plant on West Warren Avenue. Another part of the DeSoto plant on West Warren was used to build DeSoto bodies.
The RB block was the B block with a raised deck permitting longer engine strokes. Heads could be interchanged between R and RB blocks, as could most of the internals. Manifolds cannot be interchanged between the B and RB due to the wider space between the tops of cylinder blocks due to the longer stroke.
With the new B/RB engines, Chrysler was able to centralize engine production. All B/RB engines were built at the Trenton engine plant by the Engine Division of the Automotive Manufacturing Group. Plymouth's A block plant on Mound Road was also moved under the Engine Division as were the marine and industrial engine operations at East Jefferson.
Edited by Chrycoman 2015-08-21 6:35 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7207
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Bill, you mean "B and "RB" blocks. Not R and RB . :-)
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | imopar380 - 2015-08-21 3:20 PM
Bill, you mean "B and "RB" blocks. Not R and RB . :-)
Yup "B and RB". Started out as B and RB . . .
Will fix that.
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'58 Fury - 350 or 318?
