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Veteran
Posts: 163
 
Location: Metro Detroit | I have been searching and reading threads for hours now and I am going delirious from fatigue! My 57 Plymouth currently has a 66 383 with a cast iron air cooled 3 speed TF. The motor has developed issues and needs to be pulled. I have always had issues with the trans mounted to that motor, it looks like the previous owner installed an aftermarket aluminum bell housing and there are no screens for cooling / no fluid cooler installed and there are starter lash-up problems with the ring gear.
I have a line on a 66 Dodge Coronet that is basically a parts car but has a nice running 70's 440 and a rebuilt newer 727. I know this has been covered before but I cannot find a definitive answer. I know that the 440 will bolt in where a 383 was, but my question is: will the later engine / trans combo work with my stock cross member? I am also hoping to reuse the Dodge's driveshaft. I am also planning on reluctantly eliminating the pushbuttons and installing a floor mounted shifter.
Any help would be appreciated, thanks |
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Regular
Posts: 59
| The only thing I can tell you is that I saw a '57 DeSoto Adventurer at a cruise night last year with a 440 in it. Whoever did it cut so much of the rear side of the crossmember away to clear the oil pan that they had to put the strength back by adding a section of 4" x4" square tubing about 16" long on the front side. I think it was just welded to the crossmember with the ends left open, and it looked horrible!!! There has to be an oil pan available that will make a cleaner swap. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1150
Location: Southern California | There is a cleaner oil pan available, I'll find out its on mine, no crossmember cut here. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 594
Location: Melbourne, Australia | I've seen a 440 installed without x-member mods but it was close.....ultimately a 1 inch notch out of sump was decided upon.... (there was 1/4 ' clearance ) Push button T/F can be retained by either swapping out the 6 bolt to an 8 bolt crank OR cutting/shutting two torque convertors together to mate the new combo. Whether the old T/F can handle the power is another story.... Colin |
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | You use the oil pan from a 58-61 mopar with a big block. I have a 59 Dodge 361 and will use the oil pan and pickup for my installation of a 440 in my 58 Plymouth. |
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Expert
Posts: 3778
Location: NorCal | 57plybel - 2014-07-10 6:48 AM
Push button T/F can be retained by either swapping out the 6 bolt to an 8 bolt crank OR cutting/shutting two torque convertors together to mate the new combo
Have you actually seen this done? |
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Veteran
Posts: 163
Location: Metro Detroit | I had the car on the hoist today, of course the front brakes started dragging on the way in! Anyway, I started looking at everything and started spraying bolts getting it ready. It doesn't look like the torsion bars will need to be removed to lower the trans cross member? I need to get the drivetrain out of the donor car and start measuring, it looks like the trans mount / crossmember will need to be altered for the newer 727. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | It would be cool if you could do a build thread on this swap, you know before, during and after stuff
I for one, would be following it intently
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 594
Location: Melbourne, Australia | Chizler, I have seen it done two ways; with the split torque convertor, I've seen the car on the road - swap done by an interstate friend and another real close up by a local friend but a totally different method. 2nd method involved modded 361 cup mounts, sandwich plate b/w bell and block, stock 361 starter, modded trans x-member, etc... The converter required concentric adaptor ring, 4 large blocks welded to it and total rebalance.... I personally would not use this method. But it does bolt up and car body/shell have no mods! Colin |
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Expert
Posts: 3035
Location: N.W. Fla. | 57plybel - 2014-07-10 8:48 AM
by either swapping out the 6 bolt to an 8 bolt crank > Did they not have a bell pattern change 61 to 62 also like they did on the small blocks? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 594
Location: Melbourne, Australia | The bell pattern difference was accommodated with the alloy plate b/w bellhousing and engine; pix coming over weekend !!!! It was a PITA swap and needed narrow head bolts and nuts with only fractions clearance in some instances....
Edited by 57plybel 2014-07-10 10:45 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 594
Location: Melbourne, Australia | CORRECTION : The 361 starter has had the 325 57 Dodge Poly nose installed The 12mm alloy plate was to accomodate starter throwout distance; the 361 bellhousing bolted up to the 440 stud pattern block (truck block I believe) The spider is a heavy duty off the shelf part BUT with enlarged bolt holes and larger bolts
Edited by 57plybel 2014-07-11 5:07 AM
 (361 LH cup mt resize.jpg)
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 361 LH cup mt resize.jpg (217KB - 242 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 594
Location: Melbourne, Australia | cont.
 (440 swich resize.jpg)
 (361 cup mt resize.jpg)
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440 swich resize.jpg (194KB - 270 downloads)
361 cup mt resize.jpg (190KB - 253 downloads)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 594
Location: Melbourne, Australia | The rear block dowels are extra long to go through the 12mm alloy The cup mounts have spacers tackwelded to them to " square up " the block to firewall / trans to crossmember relationship.... it sat ****eyed without them !! Ring gear is also from 325 poly if I remember correctly (to match the pinion) |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 594
Location: Melbourne, Australia | C O C K !!! You can just see the 440 high volume (deep) sump in one pic; it will receive a 1'' chamfer on the front to enable easier installation....
Edited by 57plybel 2014-07-11 5:06 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 163
Location: Metro Detroit | It looks like I wont be able to get my hands on the parts car until next week, Ill be sure to let you guys know on the progress
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119
Location: STL, MO | Look for posts by Dukeboy. |
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Veteran
Posts: 163
Location: Metro Detroit | Phase 1 complete! Tore down the Coronet today, it got a little interesting when the severely rusted unibody let go right at the upper control arm!
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Veteran
Posts: 281
Location: WA/USA | Can anyone share what exhaust manifold options work for this swap - Factory or aftermarket? |
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | I know when I pulled the 350 out of my 58 Fury and put in a 66 383 I just used the 350 exh. manifolds. I don't remember the combination now, center dump, rear dump etc. Maybe one of the members with a 350 will speak up. I have a 59 Sierra 361 parts car and it is probably the same, I'll look today. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6500
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | Use ones that look like this:
1 pair of 57 58 59 Plymouth dodge Chrysler big block exhaust manifolds off of a western car rh casting number 1739599 2 date ?-3-57x ......lh casting number 1739600 date k 8 7 ... these are rare nice originals no cracks etc heat riser works also includes generator bracket. fits 350 361 383 413 I think they were off of a 57 or 58 fury big block.
 (1958350exhaustmanifolds.jpg)
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1958350exhaustmanifolds.jpg (9KB - 325 downloads)
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Veteran
Posts: 281
Location: WA/USA | I was amazed to find that Dorman produces a big block cast iron exhaust manifold for B/RB engines with center dump on the driver's side. They are reasonably priced and even available through Summit Racing...
Did I say that I am amazed ? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5006
| AceS - 2014-11-12 12:14 AM
I was amazed to find that Dorman produces a big block cast iron exhaust manifold for B/RB engines with center dump on the driver's side. They are reasonably priced and even available through Summit Racing...
Did I say that I am amazed ?
They will refurb anything they have in stock... I am surprised what Doorman has, beware their electronics though.. 
I once went through 3 ECU's till I found one that would run the car. |
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440 / 727 swap into a 57 Plymouth
