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Elite Veteran
Posts: 716
 
| Fixed temp gauge today - it hovered about 3/4 through the zone when motor was at its op temp.
I've never had a car this old, and the gauge has never worked, so taking a poll to see if 3/4 through is close enough.
Thanks in advance.  
(58 Belv, 350, dual quad carbs, no A/C...those seem to be some of the routine need-to-knows for this stuff) |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
  
Location: bishop, ca | If it's a steady reading, it's fine.
You/we do not want an engine that is running too-cool, like when the thermostat is stuck open---a warm/hot engine
is a happy, efficient engine.
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Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | Mount a real, mechanical watertemp-gauge in the car and read the numbers.
Anyone relying on a 60 year old electric gauge is just fooling himself.
Personally I don't want any of my engines running constantly over 190.
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Expert
Posts: 3403
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Or use a non contact thermo to check temps at the thermostat housing and upper radiator hose. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | dammn, Herman....but seriously, Allen, when you drive your car(s) you will get a good sense of what they, and their gauges,
are telling you about themselves.
You could get an infra-red/whatever they're called laser-like thermometer, and take readings all over your car, like at the
brakes, if you want to compare the lining-shoe temperatures, or at the exhaust manifolds or at the mufflers/tailpipes...all
kinds of places.
At least, you could, then, correlate actual temperatures to what the gauge is indicating.
One traumatic observation that everyone needs to confirm is where real tank-empty presents itself on the gas gauge.
I've dialed-in my car's gas gauge so that the tank's true-empty occurs where the needle reaches the far marking on the gauge, instead
of having 'empty' occur at some point beyond that marking.
Full-to-top-of-tank filling shows a less-than-full reading on that gauge, now, but, that's hardly important, and 1/2-tank appears
at the mid-point marking on the gauge.
Gas tank gauge adjustments are not particularly simple or easy to do.
[I can hear y'all now---"don't let your tank run close-to-empty before you re-fill it"....well, I do like to run the tank almost empty, if only to remain in control, and to be aware of, its operational capabilities.
But, your gauge reading situation is not much of a problem, as long as your gauge shows consistent logical readings.
The GEN-1 Viper's water temperature readings show a little bit high on their gauges, too---just gotta know your car, and
its capabilities.
Edited by d500neil 2012-08-19 2:23 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13056
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | I run with a 195 Fahrenheit thermostat (90,6 Celsius) - the reading with a non contact temperature instrument @ thermostat housing is 189 Fahrenheit (87 degrees Celsius) @ hot engine, which results at the dash gauge as approximately 60-70% of gauge range. That is whit in the "normal" range. That means that I can actually trust 50+ old gauges. But I double checked this for safety. I know perfectly well by the old gauges when my engine is cold, normal or to hot. |
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Expert
Posts: 3780
Location: NorCal |
Many owner's manuals state that "the needle will be near the center during normal driving and might rise slightly in heavy traffic". |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yeah, learning to trust your car's gauges is a function of actually driving it, and observing the gauges' operation.
Although it may involve carrying around, for a short while, a can of gasoline in your car, another car following you, and/or
some careful trial-and-hopefully-not-error, involving repeated full-fill-ups, we should know how well our gas gauges work.
When I re-start my car, the gas gauge typically shows (accurately-) LESS gas being in the tank than what it had been showing, when the car was still operating, before shut off.
Just gotta take its slight 'extra' fuel on board showing, into consideration, when driving, and pay attention to what the gauge is showing, upon start up and initial movement.
Edited by d500neil 2012-08-19 6:49 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | HEH!
I was searching the intraweb for something cogent to say about the merits of having an ammeter in a generator-ignition system,
and found several sites/threads in that regard, but believe that THIS thread best discusses the comparative merits of a voltmeter
-vs- ammeter in both an alternator-car and a generator-car.
I happen to prefer the ammeter, for keeping me informed about how H.'s generator-charging system is operating, over that of a voltmeter...
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/ot-automotive-ammeter-...
Edited by d500neil 2012-08-19 7:18 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1530
Location: ZH, Switzerland | At my Chrysler the temperature gauge shows below 50% at driving. Yesterday it was very hot (ambient temperature around 95 F) and when I stored my Chrysler the gauge went up about to 60% - the first time I drove it when it was very hot outside and the first time I noticed that reading. I didn't hear any boiling noise with the engine off nor any steam out of the cooler cap. Sven once had an eye to the temp gauge of pictures I displayed and addressed the low reading. When I drive around with that ambient temperature, the reading is about 40 to 45 %. When it is below or around 68F the temperarure gauge never reads 50%. So my conclusion is that the thermostat is (probabely) open all the time or it is a 160 F or lower opening temp rated thermostat. What type of thermostat to buy at RockAuto?
Happy Motoring!
Dieter
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Expert
Posts: 3403
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | 160 is the normal 't'stat for that car. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 716
| Alright.....good info as always.
I'll get a mechanical temp thingy and make sure the op temp is within an acceptable range (per factory and FL forum).
Then I'll mark in my brain what the temp gauge reads.
I'm not so hung up on it being in the center of the gauge at op temp, so if it works consistently at about 3/4 where it is, then I'll be content.
Good diversion toward the gas gauge, which is for now not connected. Adding that to my list of winter projects, and adding this string to what is amounting to be my FL forum 'shop manual.'
As someone said a few months back, who would have imagined during the FL era that there would be this level of experrtise devoted to these cars?
You guys are the best. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The 160 and the 180 degree thermostats are BOTh considered as being "cool" summer devices.
The following is from Autozones' discussion about thermostats:
Before emission controls and computerized engine controls came along, it was a common practice to install a cooler (160 to 180 degree F.) thermostat for summer driving. The lower thermostat lowered the engine's operating temperature, which in turn reduced the load on the cooling system and reduced the danger of overheating during hot weather driving or when towing a trailer.
It was also common practice to again replace the thermostat come fall and install one with a higher (190 to 195 degrees F.) temperature rating. This would raise the engine's operating temperature so the heater would put out more warm air on a cold winter morning.
If a colder thermostat is installed, the coolant may never get hot enough to allow the engine to operate efficiently.
[With a removed thermostat, or one that is stuck-open] the engine will run as if it were continually cold, which increases both fuel consumption and emissions. Too low an operating temperature also increases cylinder wear.
CAUTION: Under no circumstances should an engine be driven without a thermostat! This can produce thermal stress that may crack a head or block!
This from me: if a thermostat is stuck-shut, the car will overheat relatively QUICKLY, after a start up, because the coolant will not circulate, at all----the lower radiator hose will be relatively very cold, as water is not running through the radiator.
The thermostat will NOT shut itself (overheating), once it opens; it will either stay-shut or stay-open.
You need to observe the water temperature gauge, and see if it continues to climb (into the 'red'), within about 5 minutes of when you start the car.
A warm/hot engine is a happy engine.
If your car is maintaining its heat range, on the gauge (and, it is not showing TOO-cool), then, the T-Stat is
doing its job.
A prolonged "too-hot" reading probably means that there is something ELSE wrong with the cooling system
(blocked passages/corrosion, e.g.).
Edited by d500neil 2012-08-20 4:18 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Here's what a stuck-open thermostat will look like, on the temp-gauge....
And, here's what a replaced, properly-working thermostat looks like, on the 'gauge'...
Edited by d500neil 2012-08-20 6:17 PM
 (PICT0006.JPG)
 (PICT2404.JPG)
Attachments
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 PICT0006.JPG (104KB - 189 downloads)
PICT2404.JPG (108KB - 185 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 2679
| d500neil - 2012-08-20 6:05 PM
Here's what a stuck-open thermostat will look like, on the temp-gauge....
And, here's what a replaced, properly-working thermostat looks like, on the 'gauge'...
Yep, this looks correct. You temp gauge will read about 3/4 Nothing to get alarmed at. |
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Expert
Posts: 4589
Location: Northern New Jersey | Neil,
Whats that after market stuff under your Dash? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 716
| Excellent, d500, just excellent. Thanks.
So for successful operations on the old girl I put one on the list, for a total of one!  |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8445
Location: Perth Australia | That thing under the dash looks like an fm converter
Dont really know a lot about them, but i think it conects to the original radio so you get fm through it
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That is the rare OEM signal-seeking radio (which requires a separate power amplifier, and mounting bracket, that is attached to the hood hinge mounting studs, that extend through the firewall.
The guy below it is an early-60's Motorola FM converter; no pushbuttons on it, only a manual tuning knob and on/off knob.
The FM converter can be used to receive a (portable) satellite radio-receiver's signal, which, then, plays through the radio and the speaker system.
The FM converter is held to/around the heater control with plastic "plumber's tape", so, it is easily removable.
The radio antenna wire goes 'into' the FM converter, which is wire connected 'out' to the AM radio, right above it,
and the radio is wired out to a Fader Switch, which is wired out to the front & rear speakers.
Edited by d500neil 2012-08-22 3:23 AM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | my dart reads @ 1/4 on the gauge ,cruisin . on a long pull up grade it'll go a little past 1/2 but rapidly decreases going down the next grade ------------------------------later
Edited by 60 dart 2012-08-22 12:22 AM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | "Your results may vary", but, that sounds a little bit like the 57 Dodge, with a stuck open T-stat.
Got pics?
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Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | d500neil - 2012-08-20 12:05 PM
Here's what a stuck-open thermostat will look like, on the temp-gauge....
And, here's what a replaced, properly-working thermostat looks like, on the 'gauge'...
So... a properly working thermostat slows you down about 20 miles? Wow...!
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | You noticed that, huh....
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 716
| 59CRL gets the prize - she consistently reads about 3/4 when warmed up.
Haven't actually measured the temp yet....details, details.
(the prize is continued notoriety and all the fame that comes with being right, along with my gratitude) |
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Member
Posts: 14
Location: Sweden | I have been looking at the temperature gauge in my Chrysler Windsor 57 (354 poly)
and as 57chizler says: "the needle will be near the center during normal driving and might rise slightly in heavy traffic" thats what I've read too
and according to the service manual the gauge should show the max value when the engine unit is grounded.
I tried grounding the engine unit and the temperature showed only about 2/3.
did some more research by doing ohm readings and found that from the dash gauge to ground was about 310 ohm and from the engine unit to ground was about 270 ohm
that means that I got about 40 ohm in the wire to the engine unit. (did a reading on only the cable and it showed 43.4 ohm)
Replaced the wire and now the gauge points to the dot under the max dot at normal temperature (about 4/5),
and did rise about halfway to max when I was driving slow a hot day.
and when grounding it it points a bit above max! (about 6/5)
My guess is that that the ground cable got to much resistance too.
I've put a 15 ohm resistor on the wire to the engine unit so now the pointer points to max on the gauge when it is grounded. and a little above center on a normal temperature.
wrote about this on my blog and got pictures of the gauge and a graph of the readings of the engine temperature unit http://chrysler1957.blogspot.se/2013/04/dashboard-temperature-gauge... if anyone is interested |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13056
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Nice troubleshooting and good fix - thanks for sharing, but why on earth do you post the pictures on a blog (not lekely read by many here), instead of direct here (you could have posted a link in your blog)???? |
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Member
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Location: Sweden | Yeah well I started writing about in on the blog, wasnt my plan to post it here, but checked this forum for similar threads and found this,
just finished the blog-post with all pictures and thought that it might be a little too much with all the pictures here,
and here I cant wire text between the pictures to set them in some kind of context, but... I did write on the pictures. I will try to upload them here now, but i might need to re-size them because of image size limit
 (old wire grounding reading.jpg)
 (new wire grounding.jpg)
 (new wire warm engine.jpg)
 (new wire with 15ohm resistor grounding reading.jpg)
 (new wire with 15ohm resistor warm engine.jpg)
 (temperature unit resistance testing.jpg)
 (Chrysler_temperature_unit_readings.png)
 (dash gauge wiring.jpg)
Attachments
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old wire grounding reading.jpg (124KB - 155 downloads)
new wire grounding.jpg (123KB - 160 downloads)
new wire warm engine.jpg (129KB - 148 downloads)
new wire with 15ohm resistor grounding reading.jpg (127KB - 149 downloads)
new wire with 15ohm resistor warm engine.jpg (127KB - 151 downloads)
temperature unit resistance testing.jpg (107KB - 145 downloads)
Chrysler_temperature_unit_readings.png (87KB - 159 downloads)
dash gauge wiring.jpg (139KB - 154 downloads)
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13056
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Thanks' man - that will help many of our members - beautiful pictures and very explanative!!!! (Could you try to resize the pictures - that would be even better)
This shows a dedicated troubleshooting and also the proper method of fixing the problem. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 716
| good info all....and, by the way, since I started this thread, my girl is is getting the best care possible by someone who knows;
to include checking engine temp/comparing to gauge.
(I'm still floored by the level of expertise all over this forum.....) thanks everyone. |
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Member
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Location: Sweden | Glad it's appreciated!
but just a heads up, you dont need to mess with resistors i guess, I just did if for debugging, a new ground wire is probably what I need to get the gauge working as it should, if not, yeah maybe then add a resistor to tweak the voltage.
and grounding the engine unit to see the absolute max value is very good, then you get to know your gauge better.
I resized the pictures to about half the size and added a picture I took of the wiring to the gauges.
Edited by DomeDan 2013-05-23 6:58 PM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13056
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Perfect man thanks' for the resizing. I think the resistor is indeed what many would like to have - I did it, Sermey also and many here would like that the instruments shows as correct as possible. The ground is what many neglects and presume its always good. Many strange errors comes from bad grounding. |
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What does temp gauge read at normal (V8)?
