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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
| I have my 300F 413 soaking via plug holes in PB Blaster. What's the best way to try to roatate? Some say via crank pulley nut, others by flywheel teeth....opinions? |
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Expert
Posts: 3035
  
Location: N.W. Fla. | I'd say a breaker bar on the crank nut. Blaster evaporates, ATF works fairly well. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
 
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | pull all the plugs and use a breaker bar on crank nut . using the flywheel and bustin nuckles aint fun ------------------------------------------------------------later |
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Expert
Posts: 3399
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | 60 dart - 2013-06-11 4:45 PM
pull all the plugs and use a breaker bar on crank nut . using the flywheel and bustin nuckles aint fun ------------------------------------------------------------later Agreed, you will not break the crank bolt either, trans fluid, Marvel Mystery oil, all will work, maybe! |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | Be good to rock the engine as well, just a little back and forth and a little bit more each time (if it loosens up)
Generally though, I think you will end up opening the engine anyway
Best of luck (its fun getting an engine going)
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
| Definitely going to open up the motor...need to be able to separate the Trans from the motor! |
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Expert
Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta | Somewhere on the board some people were talking about a 50/50 mixture of acetone and auto trans fluid, supposed to be many times better than Marvel or PB Blaster, I have that soaking in my stuck motor right now, been in there about a week and i haven't tried to move it yet, just giving it plenty of time. |
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Location: North Australia | DB, you could remove the auto, and then the bell to access the torque converter to crank mounting nuts, without turning the motor over. One advantage is you may avoid damaging any useable engine components any worse than they already are.
Steve. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7808
Location: Williams California | If it's stuck really good [or would that be bad] I use the ring gear teeth to pry against as a fulcrum. You get many times the turning force doing it that way. As Chuck mentioned, though, it is also harder to get at. Too long of a cheater bar on the crankshaft bolt could actually pull the threads from the crankshaft, seen it many times before.
---John |
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Expert
Posts: 2120
Location: atlanta |
How long is to long? I have a 1" socket set and the rachet is about 2 1/2 feet long. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 888
Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | Go get your self a flywheel 'wrench'.
http://www.nextag.com/Lisle-LIS23800-Flywheel-Turner-78997197/price...
Unless you have reason to believe that there is some inherent value in getting it to turn over now, I suggest that you start the 'demo' process.
Edited by wayfarer 2013-06-12 1:37 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
| Steve, I wasn't aware that I could seperate the Trans from the bell housing...I guess I could try to drop the Trans seperate first, then pull the motor.... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | I found it easier to pull the engine and trans in one lump
If I remember right, the service manual recomends this and the removal of the front clip (this is how i did it)
Wasnt as hard as it sounds
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Expert
Posts: 1730
Location: Michigan | I agree with Michael above. Clip comes off relatively easy and then just disconnect the drive shaft, motor and trans mounts. Once you do that you can pull the 1200lb combo and put the engine on a stand (I made a wood one) and work on all those bolts without breaking your knuckles or denting / scratching the car. |
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Location: North Australia | I also removed my 413 and TF as a unit from my Imperial. I made a cradle from a 200 litre drum holder/rack, with supports for the engine, and a flat area under the TF. That way I could slide the TF back and disconnect it from the motor, while keeping the two parallel. Could not use a normal engine hoist as the reach was too long on the Imp. I ended up making a travelling gantry. Note the C of G is right at the back of the engine when the box is installed.
DB, the TF is held to the bellhousing by the 4 bolts you will see once you have it all out of the car. Then remove the bell housing, then the torque converter.
Steve. |
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Expert
Posts: 2289
Location: Eastern Iowa | If you are going to remove the T/F from the bell housing, make yourself a set of guide pins
out some 3/8 coarse thread bolts, maybe 4-5 " long. Cut the heads off, cut a slot in the end for a screwdriver, and bevel that end.
Then remove the bolts from the trans one at a time and install the guide pin in its place usimng a screwdriver in the slot.
This will make sliding the trans off the B/H much easier and you will (hopefully) avoid damage
to the pump shaft.
Reassemble in the same fashion.
This procedure is covered in the FSM, which you should try and aquire.
Lots of very good info in there.
Good luck!
Dave S |
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Expert
Posts: 3399
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | finsruskw - 2013-06-13 7:50 AM
If you are going to remove the T/F from the bell housing, make yourself a set of guide pins
out some 3/8 coarse thread bolts, maybe 4-5 " long. Cut the heads off, cut a slot in the end for a screwdriver, and bevel that end.
Then remove the bolts from the trans one at a time and install the guide pin in its place usimng a screwdriver in the slot.
This will make sliding the trans off the B/H much easier and you will (hopefully) avoid damage
to the pump shaft.
Reassemble in the same fashion.
This procedure is covered in the FSM, which you should try and aquire.
Lots of very good info in there.
Good luck!
Dave S Amen, old trick that works, used this method for years.
Edited by Shep 2013-06-13 8:50 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
| What is a "FSM"? F Service Manual? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 320
Location: lakeview, ny 14085 | without a doubt flywheel gives much more torque than center of crank. simple physics. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
| Re: Flywheel wrench, is there enough room in the inspection hole to use it? I can see if the bell housing was off that it would work well... |
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Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | The 413 in my '60-NY was stuck when I bought it.
Through info from the previous owner I kinda knew the bearings where holding the crankshaft.
After getting the car in my garage I tried starting it. Didn't budge.
I pried on the convertor-teeth with a large screwdriver and after a while I managed to get a some movement on the crank and was able to move the crank half a turn.
After that I put a freshly loaded high-AMP gel-battery and tried cranking it again. The engine now turned over and I even managed to get it running for a while. But also heard the telltale noises of a wornout bearing knocking down below. So I turned it off, but at least the engine wasn't stuck anymore.
Was able to easily disconnect the convertor from the crank after that.
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | Shep - 2013-06-13 8:47 AM
finsruskw - 2013-06-13 7:50 AM
If you are going to remove the T/F from the bell housing, make yourself a set of guide pins
out some 3/8 coarse thread bolts, maybe 4-5 " long. Cut the heads off, cut a slot in the end for a screwdriver, and bevel that end.
Then remove the bolts from the trans one at a time and install the guide pin in its place usimng a screwdriver in the slot.
This will make sliding the trans off the B/H much easier and you will (hopefully) avoid damage
to the pump shaft.
Reassemble in the same fashion.
This procedure is covered in the FSM, which you should try and aquire.
Lots of very good info in there.
Good luck!
Dave S Amen, old trick that works, used this method for years.
some place here there are photos of the screw in guide pins i use for assembly of a trans --------------------------------------------------------later |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
| I'd like to see pics of those pins. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
Location: Upper Hunter NSW Australia | db300 - 2013-06-14 7:16 AM
I'd like to see pics of those pins.
.........
This pic is sorta what he means.......
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dasplace.net/Corv...
The link wouldn't go direct to the pic I'm referring to but scroll down the page about 1/3rd down and look at the bellhousing pic with guide pins in place.
Obviously a manual trans and GM but same concept.
Cut a slot in the drive end of the pin ( about where you cut off the bolt head ) so that you can screw it in and out of the bellhousing thread with a flat blade screw driver. Put a slight champher/bevel on the end just to make the trans body bolt holes a little easier to slide initially along the guide pins.
Hopefully the trans should slide along correctly and in line so the convertor to pump drive slots in all ok.
Then just unscrew each pin one at a time and replace with the correct trans-to-bellhousing bolts one at a time.
........ |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
| Thanks for the link. A well written piece! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
| Was able to remove generator, steering pump, and Rams this weekend....still stuck...put in more PB Blaster.... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 632
Location: Belford, NJ | My 413 was stuck too. I used PB, Marvel, acetone and diesel. After a few weeks of soaking it still would not turn so I pulled the heads. Apparently, a mouse was able to make it's way into the rear most drivers side cylinder... which it used as a toilet. A few nice "taps" on the top of that cylinder with a brass bar, while trying to turn the motor from the crank and it broke free... 1 inch one way, 1 inch the other until it made a few rotations. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7808
Location: Williams California | I've hooked two batteries in series and used 24 volts to break an engine loose a few times. If you are unsure of what you're doing, it could be dangerous, however. If any of the spark plugs had heavy rust on the electrodes, it is an indication that all the above tricks will most likely lead to failure, and disassembly is a must. I have freed up probably fifty or sixty stuck engines over the years, some were easy, and others not so.
---John |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
| The plugs were clean, and the antifreeze clean when drained. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | I have not done this, so not sure if it would work, but have you thought about running hot water through
the Block (or hot air) to sort of expand and contract things a little, I was thinking that it might help to get the lubricant around a bit.
You could just put water in the radiaitor and blow hot air through it and use a small motor or something to turn the water
pump, would need the thermostat out as well.
Who knows, it might help
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 314
| I'm thinking head removal might be next... |
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Stuck 413
