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Location: Montreal, Canada | I need help with this, as it's a complete mystery to me.
Here's the deal. My car (1958 Dodge Regent - Plymouth Savoy) was converted to Power Steering using a complete "constant control" setup from a 58 Desoto Firedome.
Knowing that a DeSoto has a much longer wheelbase, and most of the wheelbase difference on these forward look cars is between the front wheels and the firewall, I'm wondering if the steering column in my car might be too long.
The setup works as is, but ever since I got the car, I find the driving position a bit odd. The steering wheel really seem to sit too close to the driver and too high into the windshield, so it's a bit annoying. I keep comparing the "looks" of my setup with pictures I have saved of other 58 Plymouths, and I can't help but think that mine has the steering wheel too far out from the dash and a bit too high.
....but, looking at parts catalogs, it seems that the column and jacket are the same across the board (Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto, and even Chrysler) for all 1958 cars with auto trans. and Constant Control power steering??
Any thoughts, opinions, knowledge to share on this???
A couple of pics of my setup.
 (Column1.jpg)
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 Column1.jpg (135KB - 76 downloads)
Column2.jpg (198KB - 87 downloads)
Column3.jpg (145KB - 77 downloads)
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Location: Connecticut | Just a couple of things I noticed: The steering wheel is a rubber wheel, not a plastic one like you see on most cars with P/S. Maybe it's diameter is larger ? Also, I noticed that your dash is from a '57, not a '58. Is this something you added ?
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Location: Montreal, Canada | ronbo97 - 2013-12-22 11:18 PM
Just a couple of things I noticed: The steering wheel is a rubber wheel, not a plastic one like you see on most cars with P/S. Maybe it's diameter is larger ? Also, I noticed that your dash is from a '57, not a '58. Is this something you added ?
Ron
Hi Ron!
This 58 rubber wheel is there temporarily untill I have finished the restoration of the correct 58 Deluxe black and white Power steering wheel that I'll install in the spring. I checked the diameters of both and they are the same, so that's not it.
The dash is the correct 58 one. Only the mirror is a 57 unit and the hole for the correct 58 mirror placement was plugged by the former owner. Being the purist that I am  , ll revert the mirror back to its original location in the spring, as soon as I have all the parts to do it.
Do you have the "constant control" power steering in your Plymouth, Ron? If so, does the steering wheel feels far from the dashboard when you're at the wheel? And does the steering column's shape and position look the same as what you see on my pics?
This is the wheel that's going in my car as soon as I can work in the garage without freezing!
Edited by soiouz 2013-12-23 7:02 AM
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Location: Alaska | soiouz, I have a 57 Chrysler with P/S, and several 57 Plymouths with manual steering I will try to measure if I can get through the snow. BTW, will your old steering wheel be for sale? (I.m interested) How tall are you? |
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Location: Montreal, Canada | 58coupe - 2013-12-23 9:44 AM
soiouz, I have a 57 Chrysler with P/S, and several 57 Plymouths with manual steering I will try to measure if I can get through the snow. BTW, will your old steering wheel be for sale? (I.m interested) How tall are you?
Thanks a lot, but the whole 57 power steering system is different from the "constant-control" (1958) system. The parts catalogs confirm that the steering columns with the "co-axial" (1957) system are different for Plymouths, Dodges and DeSotos/Chryslers. But my car has the 1958 constant-control Power Steering unit in it.
The only comparison that would work would be measuring a Power Steering 1958 DeSoto or Chrysler column (I could measure mine) with a Power Steering 1958 Plymouth column (I would need help from a member who has an original 1958 Plymouth with PS).
I'm a big guy: 6'1'' so my height is not causing me to see almost half my steering wheel into the windshield area!
As for the current 58 wheel in my car, yes it will become available, but it's not in pretty shape, as it's got a lot of cracks in the rubber all around it.
Now that I think of it, that wheel is also a very slight bit out of shape and the angle is not quite right, as the upper part of it is somewhat leaning forward and the lower part a bit rearward, as if this wheel had been in a collision before. This is certainly a factor that could play a part in amplifying the feeling I have of the column being too long or not in the correct position.
Edited by soiouz 2013-12-23 10:25 AM
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | David, as I recall I had to shorten a Chrysler steering column by about 1 1/2" to fit one of my Dodges. If you compare my Regal column pic (page 12 Regal Lancer) thread to yours it does look shorter. I have to have my steering gear rebuilt this winter sometime so when I get it apart I can measure it and let you know.
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Location: Montreal, Canada | LD3 Greg - 2013-12-23 11:37 AM
David, as I recall I had to shorten a Chrysler steering column by about 1 1/2" to fit one of my Dodges. If you compare my Regal column pic (page 12 Regal Lancer) thread to yours it does look shorter. I have to have my steering gear rebuilt this winter sometime so when I get it apart I can measure it and let you know.
Greg
Thanks a lot, Greg! That's very useful info! I'll go right away take a look at the pictures you posted of your Dodge.
As a complementary info, if you could share a bit about your experience of shortening a steering column, I'll be very interested to know, as I might have to go down that route. It's easily feasible? Complicated?.. |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | I just sawed a piece out of the column and welded it back up, metal finished and painted it. I did it an area under the dash just in case my repair could be seen!
You know what ----- better wait until I get an accurate column length for you before any plans are made. My memory isn't what it used to be!!
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Location: Montreal, Canada | LD3 Greg - 2013-12-23 5:54 PM
I just sawed a piece out of the column and welded it back up, metal finished and painted it. I did it an area under the dash just in case my repair could be seen!
You know what ----- better wait until I get an accurate column length for you before any plans are made. My memory isn't what it used to be!!
Greg
You cut the column itself AND the jacket of the column, am I right?
Ok, I'll wait for your measurements. Thanks! |
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Posts: 1737
Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | I took a picture of the interior (yeah, sad...I know) of my '57 Chrysler 4 door sedan, to give you a view of where the wheel sits in it.
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Posts: 3480
Location: Montreal, Canada | miquelonbrad - 2013-12-24 11:37 PM
I took a picture of the interior (yeah, sad...I know) of my '57 Chrysler 4 door sedan, to give you a view of where the wheel sits in it.
Thanks for that!
Even in your 57, full-size Chrysler, I get the impression that the steering wheel is closer to the dashboard and lower. |
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Posts: 1737
Location: Hay Lakes, Alberta, Canada | Yes, it does look to be closer to the dash than yours.
Because of the angle, if you shorten your column, the wheel will also get lower.
Why not have other members on here measure the distance so you can compare? It shouldn't matter what steering box they have, the distance would have stayed the same. |
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Location: Montreal, Canada | miquelonbrad - 2013-12-25 11:49 PM
Yes, it does look to be closer to the dash than yours.
Because of the angle, if you shorten your column, the wheel will also get lower.
Why not have other members on here measure the distance so you can compare? It shouldn't matter what steering box they have, the distance would have stayed the same.
Yes, that's what I would need.
If a fellow member here with a 1958 Plymouth with original steering gear could just measure the length of the steering column from the floor to the steering wheel, it would help me a whole lot!  |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Montreal, Canada | Ok, a friend owns a 58 Plymouth with Power steering and he has very kindly accepted to do some measurements, and as I expected and estimated, my steering column is 1 1/2" too long.
Now, for you guys who did cut steering columns before, any tips you could share on making a steering column and steering column jacket one and a half inch shorter??..
THANKS! |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | I was waiting until I had the jacket completely exposed or out of the car and get you an exact overall measurement.
When we know, you could mail the jacket to me and I'll saw it and weld it up for you. No big deal at all.
But, I don't remember having to shorten the actual steering rod itself. Maybe I had one the correct length.
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Location: Perth Australia | I dont think I would be concidering cutting the steering box to wheel shaft unless its at one end or the other and that end re made to fit the wheel or the box.
Cuttind and welding in the middle would (could) amount to suicide
Imagine if it broke while driving
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Mick, that's why I didn't offer to weld it! I'd have to have a closer look at the shaft to decide how to proceed.
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Posts: 3480
Location: Montreal, Canada | Indeed, I think the idea would be to cut the shaft on the end where it meets the gearbox, not to cut it in the middle and weld it!
The shaft is mated to the gearbox worm shaft and held by a pin, right? Could that end of it be cut? |
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Location: Perth Australia | Its been a couple of years since I had the plymouth column apart, my memory is not serving me well as far as how the box end exactly looks like.
It is a tongue and groove set up (with the rubber ect in it), but I cant remember if the shaft was straight or was flared out a bit of something.
Is it not possible to see if you can just get an orriginal column assembly?
Probably cheaper and easier all around?
If the set up is the same from 57 and up (plymouth, dodge ect), I would have thought it would be relatively common
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Location: Montreal, Canada | ttotired - 2014-01-05 7:30 PM
Its been a couple of years since I had the plymouth column apart, my memory is not serving me well as far as how the box end exactly looks like.
It is a tongue and groove set up (with the rubber ect in it), but I cant remember if the shaft was straight or was flared out a bit of something.
Is it not possible to see if you can just get an orriginal column assembly?
Probably cheaper and easier all around?
If the set up is the same from 57 and up (plymouth, dodge ect), I would have thought it would be relatively common
I have a wanted ad on this forum for a correct column, but it has to be for Plymouth with power steering and I believe only 1958 and 1959 would be the same.
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Hey, Mick, thanks for scaring him away. It will save me some time and work! Cheaper and easier??? I was going to weld it free and since I was going to do the work, how could it have been easier for him??
Seriously, I owned a trailer AXLE manufacturing company and I was the guy who set up all the automatic welding fixtures complete with the x-ray quality assurance control programs. If I chose to weld a steering shaft, the weld would be the STRONGEST part of the shaft. If you don't trust welds you shouldn't stray far from home and certainly not in a vehicle.
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Location: Montreal, Canada | LD3 Greg - 2014-01-07 1:50 AM
Hey, Mick, thanks for scaring him away. It will save me some time and work! Cheaper and easier??? I was going to weld it free and since I was going to do the work, how could it have been easier for him??
Seriously, I owned a trailer AXLE manufacturing company and I was the guy who set up all the automatic welding fixtures complete with the x-ray quality assurance control programs. If I chose to weld a steering shaft, the weld would be the STRONGEST part of the shaft. If you don't trust welds you shouldn't stray far from home and certainly not in a vehicle.
Greg
Greg, you know, you got me reassured right there and I just might take you up on that offer, if you really can do it. I'm not having any luck finding a correct column anyway.
Let me know and thanks!!!
Edited by soiouz 2014-01-07 12:47 PM
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Sure I'll do it but I have to get an actual measurement first. It could be a couple months before I get my car into the shop for the measurement.
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Location: Montreal, Canada | LD3 Greg - 2014-01-07 2:09 PM
Sure I'll do it but I have to get an actual measurement first. It could be a couple months before I get my car into the shop for the measurement.
Greg
No problem, my car is safely tucked away for winter and will not come out before mid-April anyway. Thanks again!
Edited by soiouz 2014-01-07 2:43 PM
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Location: Perth Australia | Sorry Greg
Not trying to scare anyoneone away from having a go 
Just didnt think it would be that hard to find
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | No problem, Mick, and as I recall the gear end of the steering shaft(hollow) is just flattened and with a hole drilled for the roll pin. Wizard had some good pics a while back when he described the nylon parts that his friend made instead of reusing a poor quality one. It might be quite easy to shorten the shaft.
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | David, I just busted ice away from a door of my storage building and I have a 58 PS column jacket. It is welded and is 28 7/8 " overall length. It's been sandblasted and painted black so I did for one of my cars???? Of course I don't know if that is the length we want for sure. If it is, it's yours!
Greg |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Montreal, Canada | LD3 Greg - 2014-01-08 2:00 PM
David, I just busted ice away from a door of my storage building and I have a 58 PS column jacket. It is welded and is 28 7/8 " overall length. It's been sandblasted and painted black so I did for one of my cars???? Of course I don't know if that is the length we want for sure. If it is, it's yours!
Greg
Greg, that would be great if it is the correct length. I'll go right away and mesure again mine and if the difference is an inch and a half, i'll take it! Thanks a lot! |
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Location: Montreal, Canada | Ok I'm back from the garage and I could only measure inside the car from the floor to the steering wheel. It's 28 1/2'' in length when measured from over the carpeting (I had no other choice.. -20 celcius in my garage now!).
Do you think that it means that the column you have is indeed shorter by about a inch and a half, considering that you measured the whole length and that my measurement doesn't take into account the part of the jacket that goes from the firewall to the gearbox..?
If the absolute overall length of the column you have is 28 7/8", I think it could be what I'm looking for, but I am not sure how much of the jacket actually is on the engine compartment side of the firewall..?
Edited by soiouz 2014-01-08 6:36 PM
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | I'll measure my Regal the same way you did, tomorrow, and see what we have. I think we are getting close!!
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | David, the Regal jacket measures about 2" less than yours but I have extra thick underpad and carpet so I think we have it solved. We'll deal with the steering shaft in the spring.
Greg |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Montreal, Canada | LD3 Greg - 2014-01-09 4:30 PM
David, the Regal jacket measures about 2" less than yours but I have extra thick underpad and carpet so I think we have it solved. We'll deal with the steering shaft in the spring.
Greg
Great news! You're being very helpful and I really appreciate it, Greg. Let me know about the shaft when you're ready. Thank you! |
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Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | In a slightly related vein, here is a pic of the steering shaft I shortened and welded when I converted the coupler to a 60's style setup. I press-fitted the new piece into the tubulat steering shaft and welded it. I have 100% confidence in the weld's ability to hold...and even if it didn't the press fit would hold.
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Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | Heya. Plymouth, Dodge, Firesweep and Windsor would be the correct length column and shaft. If you need to shorten it two inches (or whatever length you want) , there is no need to over think it. Cut 2 inches off the column where it pushes onto the Constant Control box. Take the shaft and reduce its length by 2 inches and grind flat spots on each side of the end, to facsimilate the original end. And drill the hole for the cotter pin. |
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Location: Montreal, Canada | Once again, John Fowlie saved the day as he did find a correct column shaft for me. With the new rubber insulator i got from Gary goers too, all will be set for a column swap next week. |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Good news, David.
Greg |
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Constant control Power steering column question
