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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 363
 
| I've finally decided I better sort out my insurance on my 'ol cars, I'll admit it's a real mess, under insured, partially insured, not insured at all ! Some are pretty straight forward as there is a fair and clear "market value" going on prior sales etc. But a couple of others are less clear with no prior sales history to go on. How do you value cars like these, what you've got in them? what you perceive the value to be? I guess the biggest risk to these type of cars that spend most of the time sitting in the garage is fire/theft? Over insure and pay added premium? Agreed value policy worth the paper they're written on?
Any thoughts/help, much appreciated.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
 
Location: bishop, ca | If they just sit, are lawn ornanents, the only(?) way that you can insure them is to have Comprehensive (fire/theft/vandalism/falling-
objects/vermin/wild-animals) coverage on them.
I say 'only' advisedly, because, depending upon their state of assembly (E.G., with no engine installed in them, and no active registration
on them, etc., your Homeowners carrier MIGHT be able to insure your 'collection of parts' as a portion of your Personal Property coverage,
and those 'parts' would be covered at their Fair Market Value (at least, in CA.)
Step-1 would be inviting your H.O. insurance agent to visit your home and discuss with him what coverages his company (or companies---if
he is an Independent Insurance Agent, who can write policies for several different carriers)....might be able to extend onto your "collection"
of cars-and-parts.
Depending upon what he says to you, you can evaluate the extent to which you want or need to insure them, either with/through his company
or companies or through a Specialist/Enthusiast car-insurer.
Edited by d500neil 2014-04-28 6:41 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 524
Location: West Jordan | Hagerty, IMO, the only way to go.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Most Specialty carriers want to limit the garaging, and the operation of your car(s).
If you don't USE it, their chance of having to PAY you for it (on a claim) is lessened.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 524
Location: West Jordan | I have not had that experience with Hagerty. Don’t care how much I use it, when or where. They do ask if you keep it in a garage which I do anyway. Only thing they had a problem with was my CJ, they would not insure it because I take it off road and I can understand that. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I took my DeSoto over Engineer Pass. Wonder if the insurance company would have had
a problem with that ? !!!
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Not only do you get wider-ranging (more covered risks, like UNDER-insured Mortorists) coverage with the Big Boys carriers, but
by combining your autos with your Homeowners policy, you are "Bundling" your coverages with that carrier, which should
significantly reduce the entirety of all of your coverage premiums, which can be paid every-so-often with only one check
or with only one automatic-debit from your checking account.
Specialist carriers Spread their Risk by Cherry-Picking their Risks (garaging/usage/limited-coverages).
They don't want to cover 'no' Jeep, that might be driven off-road, and possibly become damaged by something thereby.
The Big Boys Spread their Risk by insuring as many of your possessions as possible, knowing that the chance of your losing
all of them in one event is relatively small----but, don't worry about them, in the Hurricane and Tornado Alley areas, you pay
extra for all of your coverages, because there IS an actuarilly-real possibility that you might lose everything in one event.
Edited by d500neil 2014-04-29 12:34 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 452
Location: Southern California | Great info Neil. Thanks! |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | In the past I had insured only my equity in a car. But realizing that by underinsuring I am going to only get a proportional payout on a claim it finally sunk in to value them close to market value. So today that is where they are. And all with Hagerty who has an incredibly easy to use web site, knowledgeable people about collector cars on the phone, and my Hagerty agent is a great guy and has 8 collector cars himself! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | And, with some/most/all of the big dog companies you can arrange for stated value or 'estimated' value coverage on your cars.
If you buy the limited coverage that is offered by the Specialist carriers, you may find yourself regretting their coverage come-ons,
if/when your car suffers a loss that they don't cover under their simple policies.
Your car may be covered, but YOU may not be covered for your serious Bodily Injuries that exceed their Medical Payments policy limits.
You pays your money, and takes yer chances; you get what you pay for....
E.G.: my car coverage contains a liability "umbrella" where, if I hurt/kill YOU, you/yours can collect that much money.
However: I also have a Personal "umbrella" endorsement, that pays ME/mine up to that same $1-Mil if YOU hurt me.
Ask your Big Dog....(hopefully via an Independent Agent; but the "Captive --Snake Farm/Allsnake--agents" are OK, if somewhat
limited in what they can offer/sell to you)....insurance companies what they can provide to you, to protect you fully, from
all the nasty things that happen every day of the year...to "somebody else" (right, Steph???)
And, of course, your policy premiums can be greatly reduced by "bundling" your policies.
Edited by d500neil 2014-04-29 8:17 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 663
Location: Oakley, Ill | I spent 40 years as insurance company staff. Put your collector cars on a collector car policy, if they are used as collector cars. If you use them for sport, like off road, then go where they do that kind of coverage. Unless you simply buy "storage coverage"., your collector car policy from someone like Haggerty or J.C. Grundy, will comply with auto insurance laws in your state, including liability, uninsured/underrinsured motorist coverage, medical payments, etc. Just like your regular auto policy, direct damage (You are at fault) is optional, at extra cost. The trouble with going with your standard auto carrier, is that in the event of a claim, they are going to send out a regular adjuster, who carries the NAPA blue book, and will offer you blue book salvage price, and then offer to let you keep the car, for some nominal reduction in payment. I worked for an insurance company that did offer collector car insurance, and while I was not an adjuster, I was called each time one of my adjusters had a collector car claim because I had at least a nominal idea of what the cars were, and had books like Old Cars Value Guide that are a whale of a lot better than the blue book for cars built in the last 10 years will give you. At least the specialty companies will send out an adjuster who has seen collector cars before. If your car is better than what a recognized guide like Old Cars Value Guide prices it, then you need an appraisal from a certified appraiser.
I have participated in fights with standard carrier adjusters like State Farm (bad), and Allstate (especially bad), where our insured was a 3rd party claimant on collector cars our company insured.
The collision coverage on collector car policies is cheap enough that carrying it is worthwhile because your company will fight for you because they have money at risk. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | No they won't...send out any old adjuster, and if they did, you can complain to the Claims Department.
I'm referring to a REAL insurance company, and not to any E-insurance type, or where you have to buy your coverage over the telephone (Geico/
Progressive, et al).
I've been in the Insurance industry since 1974, as an ADJUSTER.....so I know whereof I speak.
You need to talk with your LOCAL insurance agent, to discuss the various coverages and policy limits that you actually NEED to have.
A 'friendly' voice over the phone is NOT your friend.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The chance of our incurring an horrific collision impact event is much greater, whenever we turn the ignition keys, in our Olde Cars,
than it is in our modern cars.
The reason that olde cars are not regularly involved in horrific events is that we tend to drive them more carefully than our modern cars,
taking our cars' inherent deficiencies into consideration.
All of your modern cars' "Full Coverage" is NOT provided to your 'Collector Car', unless you pay for that extra coverage.
Let's look at one of the MYRIAD possibilities where your "Collector Car" insurance might become involved:
You are at an intersection, waiting on a yellow-light to make your left turn.
A non-insured (or, let's say: legally-MINIMALLY insured) person runs into you, after the light (you claim) has turned red, while your car is
still in the middle of the intersection, waiting for cars to clear, so that you can make your 'safe' left turning movement.
Your car's damage is slight; say $2,500.00-ish; definitely economically repairable, but his Stupidbaru is totaled.
You have a MAJOR whiplash and one-or-more broken bones.
The FOUR occupants of that other car are also "seriously" injured (but, they looked 'OK' to you, at the scene).
Your medical expenses are $75,000.00.
Cheapo-Collector Car insurance provides $10K(--Max, probably....but, not-enough) Medical payments coverage on you.
The other four claimants Lawyer-up, and seek $500,000.00 in damages from you.
You say that they are partially (or fully) responsible for their own injuries. Their lawyer disagrees.
Your 'Collector' insurance had Liability policy limits of $100,00.00 (ha!) on you.
The Claimants sue and a jury finds that they were 50% at fault for their own damages.
YOU, now, legally owe them $250,000.00, which is $150,000.00 MORE than your policy limits...
So, they file liens against your liquid assets or your house, etc. to recover their award.
Meanwhile, you have you own medical expenses that THEY can not pay for, so YOU are stuck with whatever billing amount exceeds
your wonderful 'Collector' coverage's Medical Payments policy limits....not to mention that you will have received NOTHING for your own Pain-and-suffering, because you do not have a Personal Liability Umbrella coverage on your Collector Car.
If ONLY you had talked with your own LOCAL insurance agent, about the coverages that you REALLY needed to have, on your 'Collector
Car'....
Another example: if ALL of your cars are insured with one 'real' insurance company, then, any "newly-acquired" (collector-or-not) car is
AUTOMATICALLY covered for a certain 'grace period'---usually 30 days---and with all of your 'other coverages being provided on that new-car
(at no cost to you, during that grace-period).
So, go buy that wonderful limited driving/drivers/garaging 'Collectors Coverage', and keep on whistling past that graveyard of potential
claims that you are facing, each time that you DRIVE your 'Collector' car.
"What could happen".....?
Edited by d500neil 2014-05-01 11:27 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 129
Location: A little east of Pittsburgh Pa. | Thanks for the info ................ very helpful |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8444
Location: Perth Australia | When it comes to auto insurance, I agree with you Neil, you have to cover yourself.
Insurance people are great with their horror stories (as above), but unfortunately, to easy to happen.
My wife was just recently involved in a "minor car accident) about 3 or 4 weeks ago now
She was driving our family bus (04 kia carnival people mover), and had stopped to turn right at a T intersection (remember, r/h/d and drive on the left here), anyway, some guy crashed into the right rear corner of the car, looked minor to me, broke the tail light, broke the bumper a bit of damage to the tailgate and rear quarter, anyway, car was written off by his insurance company (they took full liability) and paid out on the "red book" value of the car.
I accepted that value, but really, it was lower than what I would have sold (or tried to sell) it for if it was not damaged.
Thing is, the car had dings in about every panel and every corner had a knock or scrape on it, my wife keeps letting the kids eat in the car (Big hate of mine), so the carpets and seats had stains ect, you get the picture, I got what the car was worth and I got to keep the wreck, which I then sold easilly for a grand because the engine was still good.
Long story short (I could keep going), both cars were written off, my wife was extracted from the car for neck pain (has whiplash), driver was not the ownwer of the car he was driving, so its a bit messy that way, but this has the potential to get very messy as the other driver is not happy that he has recieved a letter from somebody about my wife having treatment for the whiplash and is telling me that he is going to take it to court.
I found out that my wife had stopped paying insurance on that car ages ago (*&^*^$#%&^%), so if it turns ugly, its a battle I have to fight off my own back and hope that I win to recover costs.
Just as an asside, my business carries 20,000,000.00 in public liability and I wouldnt have less, to easy to loose your house to cover something that you dont expect, not many people get up in the morning and say "I think I might have a crash today and go to hospital in an ambulance ect"
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Insuring/valuing our cars
