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Bloodhound

Posted 2014-05-03 8:03 PM (#439160)
Subject: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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Location: Buffalo, NY

Hello everyone, Kinda desperate regarding the installation of a factory A/C system in my 58 Plymouth. As I understand it 2 of the oil lines make their way to the back of the valve cover on the 350; The first from the top of the selinoid to the back of the valve cover and the second from the power piston to the valve cover. Anyone have or know where I can see a detailed picture(s) of this connection? I have to replicate this as my valve covers came from BigM and don't have the fitting(s).

I decided to convert the system for use with R134A. It's been an up hill climb but I've been working with Classic Auto Air in Tampa Fl and they have been a huge help. Started with the evaporator and heater core...

Edited by Bloodhound 2014-05-03 9:11 PM

Bloodhound

Posted 2014-05-03 8:28 PM (#439164 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando A/C HELP

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The evaporator pressure tested perfectly but the heater core had to be re cored. I had the lines trimmed and a new "firewall forward" system designed for a modern sanden compressor. Classic auto air also supplied a new expansion valve and thermostat. I had no intention of using the pressurized oil system until by complete accident I saw replacement hoses being made and sold by Gary Goers.

Edited by Bloodhound 2014-05-03 8:33 PM

Bloodhound

Posted 2014-05-03 8:42 PM (#439166 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando A/C HELP

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Had Classic Auto Air restore the heater control valve as well. They did a phenominal job.

Edited by Bloodhound 2014-05-03 8:43 PM

ttotired

Posted 2014-05-03 8:42 PM (#439167 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando A/C HELP

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This system is very different for me, is the oil pressure used to operate the A/C flaps?

Sounds like a really good way to introduce copius amounts of engine oil to your cars interior.

You cant get a vacuum actuator or whatever to work?

Never liked mechanical oil pressure gauges being installed to a vehicle either (for the same reason), fine for testing though

Bloodhound

Posted 2014-05-03 8:45 PM (#439168 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando A/C HELP

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I'm with you Mick. That's exactly what its used for. Oil had leaked from the piston (or a line) and wreaked havoc on the main ventilation housing.

I restored it and may just do this for aestetic purposes. I assume if the vent door is set to stay in the right position then getting the cold air in wont be an issue. The car will only be driven on nice days anyway. Is your system similar?

Edited by Bloodhound 2014-05-03 9:10 PM

Bloodhound

Posted 2014-05-03 9:08 PM (#439171 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando A/C HELP

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By far the hardest part of restoring the system was "rebuilding" the blower motor housing and heater core cover....

Edited by Bloodhound 2014-05-03 9:09 PM

ttotired

Posted 2014-05-03 9:24 PM (#439174 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando A/C HELP

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Neither of my cars came with A/C, the dodge (once its on the road) will get one, and that will be the practice run for what the plymouth gets.

Just as a side note, my dodge (having a backwards dash for you guys) cant have a US styled heater, a/c system because it wont fit, but it does use a vacuum control for the fresh air flap (what I was thinking about with your oil one) you cant use one of those?

Bloodhound

Posted 2014-05-03 9:29 PM (#439175 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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I suppose anythings possible. Sounds like a monumental task getting a vacuum actuator mounted up and functional with the existing parts of the system. I wonder if anyone here has attempted this or pulled it off?

Chrispy

Posted 2014-05-05 5:58 PM (#439442 - in reply to #439174)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando A/C HELP

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ttotired - 2014-05-03 7:24 PM

Neither of my cars came with A/C, the dodge (once its on the road) will get one, and that will be the practice run for what the plymouth gets.

Just as a side note, my dodge (having a backwards dash for you guys) cant have a US styled heater, a/c system because it wont fit, but it does use a vacuum control for the fresh air flap (what I was thinking about with your oil one) you cant use one of those?

The system changed considerably in 1959 going to vac activation for the flaps, the 57-58 901/902 systems have to have the oil piston due to the amount of force needed to operate the flaps. The inner door and door on the top of the evap are linked. This controls recirculate and fresh air modes.

How much was it to get that evap valve redone if you don't mind me asking? Also what did you do to clean up the evap assembly? I'm guessing you didn't open it up. I have a 902 to add to my 58, but haven't gotten even close to this far.

Edited by Chrispy 2014-05-05 6:01 PM

Bloodhound

Posted 2014-05-05 8:52 PM (#439462 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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Chris, Classic auto air charged me somewhere in the neighborhood of $125.00 to fully restore the heater control valve. As for the evaporator I broke it down completely and Classic Auto Air hot tanked it first. From there they cut the lines to optimize the location of the expansion valve. Then they sweated on modern fittings for R134A and pressure tested it. Got lucky as it passed with flying colors. They were shocked at the small fortunes worth of copper that went into its construction! LOL! I've toyed with the idea of using an aftermarket door actuator in place of the power piston and may look into it down the road. The amount of force required to work the doors with the heavy springs is quite substantial as you stated. For now I'm hoping someone can show me a picture of the return fittings on the valve cover for the 350 as that's where I'm at with the rebuilding of the system. I'll revisit the other issue down the road. There's still the 3 microswitches that concern me more than anything else.

Edited by Bloodhound 2014-05-05 8:54 PM

LD3 Greg

Posted 2014-05-05 11:41 PM (#439482 - in reply to #439462)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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I think you will find that oil was dumped through fittings located in different places. This seemed to be true for other engines for 57/58. I've seen them on the oil fill pipes, valley pans and different locations on the valve covers. I could send a pic of the fitting I used on my 58 354. A similar looking valve cover to the 350.

The hardest part I tried to find was the "Y" oil outlet on the top of the block. It is special. It has a check valve built into it.

You have certainly done a wonderful job of restoring those parts. I'm curious about one thing. I thought most, if not all, 58 blower housings were foam insulated?

The micro switches are easy to test. They don't have to handle very much power at all. I was more concerned about the rheostat, but it seems to work fine.
Greg

LD3 Greg

Posted 2014-05-06 12:06 AM (#439486 - in reply to #439462)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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When you go to rebuild the oil power cylinder, the piston rings look like rubber "O" rings. They are special hydraulic cylinder rings. A hydraulic shop can size them up for you. The piston shaft seal also needs to be replaced. I didn't do mine at first. It leaked engine oil onto my new carpet!!

Once you get it all running you will like the factory hydraulic system. Works beautifully and silent.
Greg

sparky7

Posted 2014-05-06 11:15 AM (#439535 - in reply to #439462)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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Not sure if this is what you are looking for, this is a 58 Dodge 350. The housing is a 901, although it has the hard foam surround on the blower, not the padded fiberglass.

Sparky

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Bloodhound

Posted 2014-05-08 8:05 AM (#439904 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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Fantastic Sparky! Thanks a million! That's just what I was after!

To answer your question on the blower housing it was indeed insulated foam. The outer covering was badly deteriorated. Building the fiberglass shell around it made the best sense although it was extremely labor intensive and time consuming. I would like to know more about how you tackled getting the right O rings Greg. My concern is their ability to withstand the oil temperature. What sort of hydraulic shop did you use? As for the Y fitting with the check valve I will have to muster something up.

LD3 Greg

Posted 2014-05-08 4:35 PM (#439959 - in reply to #439904)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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I would think that high temperature oil would be rather normal in most implement hydraulic systems.

It was just a local hydraulic cylinder repair shop. Actually, I went to him for "O" rings. He pointed out that they were not round and were cylinder rings.
Greg

Bloodhound

Posted 2014-05-13 8:24 PM (#440680 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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Location: Buffalo, NY

Thanks Greg. I'll break it down and replace them. What is your game plan with your system?

LD3 Greg

Posted 2014-05-13 10:44 PM (#440691 - in reply to #440680)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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Oh, my cars system has been running for years. I discharged it a long time ago to install an NOS expansion valve and never recharged it. I don't drive the car very much at all.
Greg

Bloodhound

Posted 2014-07-13 9:43 PM (#449008 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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Location: Buffalo, NY

Anyone know where the oil lines pass through the firewall on a 58? A picture would be a lifesaver!

Bloodhound

Posted 2014-07-16 9:14 PM (#449373 - in reply to #439160)
Subject: Re: 58 Plymouth Golden Commando Factory A/C Restoration/HELP

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Location: Buffalo, NY

Now that the restoration/conversion of the factory A/C system is in full swing I've started on testing and examining the pressurized oil flow control selinoid. This is a fascinating piece and critical to the system. Here's what I'm starting with as pictured. So far she tested good with the ohm meter. Next up is a bath in the solvent tank and closer inspection. 50/50 whether or not I'm going to try and open it up. Any leakage appears to have occurred at the fittings and not the top or base of the unit...

Edited by Bloodhound 2014-07-16 9:19 PM

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