|
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| I got the crazy idea that I'd do my own tune-up on my 57 FireFlite. Replaced the points, cap, rotor, condensor, plugs and plug wires.
I was very methodical, making sure to get the correct plug wires on the correct cylinders.
Now it won't start at all. I can tell it's not generating a spark, but that's as far as I've been able to troubleshoot it.
I'm debating whether I should keep messing with it or:
1. Have it towed to the guy who usually works on it and begging him to fix my mess.
2. Consider this an opportunity to convert it to an electronic ignition.
3. Keep trying to troublshoot it. I'm not sure how to chase down the problem component.
Any ideas are welcome at this point.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3575
  
Location: Netherlands | Did you set the correct point gap?
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| My shop manual says to set the point gap to .15 to .18
I set it to .17 |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
 
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | try the old condenser back in or start from scratch with all the old parts back in , eliminate the problem one by one ----------------------------------------------later |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1488
Location: New Castle PA | I'll bet you have the condenser or the points grounding against the distributor body. Carefully check to be sure that's not the case.
By the way, #3. Definitely not #1 or #2.
Were you invited to the 3D picnic in Chagrin Falls? If not, and you're interested, let me know. There should be several 1957 DeSotos there. Usually there are at least 4.
Edited by 57desoto 2014-07-04 5:31 PM
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| Does anybody have a source for good quality ignition parts?
I got my parts at one of the big chain parts stores and they feel cheap. |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | A couple of things that it could be, and I have been caught on both
First one (as mentioned) is the points shorted to ground (normally caused by the points connection beind done incorrectly
The second one is the points having an oxidised coating on them (dirty, even new ones get this).
Test it at the coil, using a test light (a multimeter will work, but its not so obvious), earth one end and key (ignition) on check the pos side of the coil, test light should light (if not, check you testlight earth or the ballast resistor is probably dead), then put the testlight on the neg side of the coil, you will get one of 2 results, it will either light up or it wont, get someone to crank the egine for you while your holding the light on the coil and it should flash as the engine rotates.
If it stays lit the whole time, the points are not closing or are dirty (open between the neg of the coil and the points grounding plate), if it does not light up and stays unlit while the engine turns, the points are closed or the contacts are shorted (normally the points lead and condensor hookup is wrong, but could be a shorted condensor).
Oh, and nothing wrong with going electronic except to the guys that dont like modified cars 
If it looks like your out of your depth, ring the guy that does your car and see if he can come to your place (save a tow), probably have it going in less than 1/2 an hour (I think this is the best option), If your lucky and have a nice mechanic, he might even tell you where you went wrong or what was wrong, so you learn something?
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | throwin new parts at it would be kinda foolish without knowin the problem --------------------------------------------------------later |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3399
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Can we assume you set the points when the lobe had them in the open position? |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| Yes, I set the points when the lobe had them at the maximum open position. Thanks for the advice. I'll give it another go later this week when I have time.
I would like to get a proper set of plug wires. The replacements I got aren't as long as the originals. The early hemis had those metal covers that went over the plug wires and I won't be able to get those back on (assuming I get it running again). |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6500
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | I hope you meant .017" not .17" for the point gap! Marc. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| You're correct. It was .017 |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | I have had a new condenser "bad" out of the box, so as has been already stated, put the old one back in and try it. |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| I'm wondering if I perhaps damaged the ballast resistor when I was taking it off. I put an ohm meter on it and it has no resistance. Does anyone know what it should be? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2244
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | It should read close to a "short circuit", maybe an ohm or 2.
Gary |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | Why did you take the ballast resister off? Yes, it should show some resistance, (don't remember how much) but not open circuit. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 4533
Location: Ripon, WI | Did you pull the distributor when you did all this? |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| OK, as previously suggested, it was the condenser. Swapped the old one back in and it fired right up.
So far so good. Now the problem I have is that it runs poorly.
It starts and idles perfectly.
However, as soon as you come off idle it starts surging and chugging.
It runs smoothly at high throttle settings but backfires as soon as I back off it.
Not sure where I went wrong. Timing set incorrectly perhaps?
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 3399
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | What is the basd timing set at? |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| The book says 6 degrees before TDC at 500 rpm. The problem is, I can't really see how to measure it. The harmonic balancer is 50+ years old and if there ever was a scale it's unreadable. It's pretty much a WAG at this point. |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8947
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | find top dead center of # 1 piston . put 2 white paint dabs , one on the timing tab , one directly across on the balancer and or pulley . now the dab mark you put on the timing tab , go @
1/4-3/8" counter clockwise from that dab and put another white dab . that'll be real close to 6 BTDC . now you'll have timing marks ----------------------------------------------later |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| Thanks. Which is the #1 piston on this engine? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1488
Location: New Castle PA | See diagram.
 (firing_order.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 firing_order.jpg (36KB - 71 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| Well no wonder it's screwed up. I had my timing light on the #2 cylinder! |
|
| |
|
Regular
Posts: 62
| OK, found TDC on #1 cylinder. Took some sandpaper to the balancer and found the original timing marks.
Now I recall from working on cars of the 60s and 70s that you were supposed to disconnect and plug the vacuum advance when setting the timing. Should I do that on this car? The shop manual doesn't mention it and the vacuum advance is actually a metal line that screws into the carburetor. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2634
Location: Minor Hill, TN | You might want to consider converting to electronic ingition?All you need is a modulator, distributor and a harness , then you will not need to worry about points and the spark plugs will last longer. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2634
Location: Minor Hill, TN | You might want to consider converting to electronic ingition?All you need is a modulator, distributor and a harness , then you will not need to worry about points and the spark plugs will last longer. |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | Yes, you disconect the vacuum advance and plug the carby end of the hose
|
|
| |
Tuned up my Desoto - Now it doesn't run
