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Veteran
Posts: 157
 
Location: Central New York | Hi all. wow ! what a lousy winter it's been here in the northeast. Hope all is well with everyone. Seeking input for this question. Is there a more modern (60's 70's) mopar front drum setup that will work on Belvy ? He's a 61 with the factory stuff on it now, but there's so many issues with it, I'd like to look into putting a different setup in.
I want to stay with drums, but maybe something a little more easy to work on, and obtain parts for. I'd like to stay away from pulling the spindles and suspension apart if I can. Maybe from the backing plates out. I'm going with a dual master cylinder, and am in the process of putting a rear from a 67 Fury in.
(Thanks for that info. by the way) I would appreciate any and all ideas, warnings, critiques, info. Thanks . Phil. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: The Great Northwest | The front drum swaps I am aware of involve mid 60's setups and do require changing the spindles. Perhaps others know of a different approach. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13054
  
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Most of the centerplane brake "problems" lies in the brake return springs and brake shoes soaked in brake fluid - fix that and the brakes will work for another 50 years - my '60 has still the original brake shoes in the réar and perhaps even in the front |
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Veteran
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Location: Central New York | I would love to keep and restore the original total contact front brakes but there's just so much rust and scale. The backing plates and everything attached to it are hopelessly rust crusted. The cylinders and boots are junk, the brake line is mainly rust dust and definitely wouldn't take a wrench. I'm sure the drums are warped beyond surfacing. I started looking into other options when I priced out what it would take to bring them back to original. I think that in the long run, considering cost, parts availability, and safety, I'm willing to sacrifice a little originality. |
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Veteran
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Location: Central New York | So what would I be looking for as far as years / models to use as a swap ? Would the rest of the steering components have to be changed also ?
Feel silly asking so many questions, but it's my first FL car, and I want to do it right. Thanks, Phil. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13054
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | For the smoothest repair without any doubts, try to buy a front brake kit from one of the guys here on the forum (or naturally Big-M, John Fowlie). There should be a couple at least that changed their brakes to disc brakes and have the whole wa-ba-ba-lola-ba-ba-lam-dam for sale.
Put in a want to buy ad here and see what happens.....
Edited by wizard 2015-03-16 11:07 AM
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Expert
Posts: 4043
Location: Connecticut | You can change over to discs in the front using an AAJ kit. A number of folks on the board have done that. Or you can get good used parts from any 60-61 Ply or Dodge. Try Big M, as he many dry Northern California cars that he is parting out. Either way, you will have to get new brake lines, hoses, shoes, etc. Ron |
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Veteran
Posts: 157
Location: Central New York | While the disc brake setup is still an option, I really want to stay with a drum system at all 4 corners. I'd just like to make it from more modern and easily available parts.
Earlier, I used the great info and advice I received from everyone, and swapped in a rear end from a mid-sixties C body. I figured I could do the same thing with the front brake setup as well. |
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Expert
Posts: 1348
Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | One other thought, if you were POSSIBLY hoping to stay stock and find some better backing plates, hardware, ect. is to send out your original cyls and have them sleeved with brass. Quality sleeving should last your life time. I think it usually starts around $50+ per. They won't rust and won't wear nearly as fast as cast iron and they will look totally stock. Brass is preferred over stainless sleeves for several reasons. Even if you do chose to go to the later style, most after market cylinders are not very good quality anyway, so think about sleeving any wheel cylinder you use and getting an American rebuild kit. I also suggest using copro/nickel brake line. It also will not rust and has a higher bursting strength than steel lines, lighter, it is much easier to bend and flare, and it looks nice. You can save a lot of time using the copro/nickel. It is standard on many high $ sport & luxury cars and many military vehicles. It is a little pricy at the auto stores for 25' of 3/16" is probably around $50+ but you can get 25' + 15 fittings[FREE SHIPPING] I believe was less than $40 on Epay and should be enough to do your whole car? Some say copper is too soft, but do a just a little research first. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Phil, you have SEVERAL good options, to the improving of your car's braking.
One is: retrofit your car's existing brake system with the largest drum-system that was available: 12" x 2 1/2"
Another is to have Firm Feel bond-on their Carbon-Metallic brake linings, onto your 'donor' brake shoe
assemblies.
A third option is to replace the above OEM-type brakes with the mid-late 60's MoPar "Bendix Duo Servo"
system.
The Bendix brake system is not particularly complicated to obtain (or to install; got them on my car) , now that re-pop
drum assemblies are available.
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Veteran
Posts: 253
| And option number one for smooth braking is the N. O. S. ++ Asbestos ++ Brakes -- as they will not "rip up" drums, you feel no pulsation at lights & stop signs, etc., etc.
Outlawed by our "good ol' EPA boys" -- it is not illegal to transact on them, as N.O.S. falls under the "grandfathered law" jurisdictions....
People "kill to have me find -- and I spend good money -- to HAVE N.O.S. ++ asbestos ++ brakes.....
I have ALL the '57 - '62 Forward Look shoes -- and I have all sizes of the later '60s shoes -- the 11" x 2 3/4" & 11" x 3" Fronts -- and the 11" x 2" & 11" x 2 1/2" Rears!!!!!!!
Call me -- Craig -- 516 - 485 - 1935.... New York.... |
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Expert
Posts: 3575
Location: Netherlands | Not sure why you're so set on drumbrakes but the '63/64 Chrysler drumbrakes could be considered a step 'up' in ease of parts-availability. Available in 2.5" and 3" wide.
Splindle change required, but these cars/parts should be rather easy to find as not many really like their looks so they get junked/sold quite often.
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Expert
Posts: 1497
Location: Fairfax, Minnesota | BigBlockMopar - 2015-03-23 4:09 PM Not sure why you're so set on drumbrakes but the '63/64 Chrysler drumbrakes could be considered a step 'up' in ease of parts-availability. Available in 2.5" and 3" wide. Splindle change required, but these cars/parts should be rather easy to find as not many really like their looks so they get junked/sold quite often. I started to think along the same lines as original poster after I watched the service tips video on 61 brakes. (MTSC - 1961, Volume 14-5 Total-Contact Brake Service Tips)When they recommended taking a metal file to several areas of a new car braking mechanism, and scraping off paint, I would guess that they made some positive changes to the breaking system in later years. Anyone have information on this? Thanks |
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Veteran
Posts: 157
Location: Central New York | Ray, I've seen those C.M.T. vintage videos. What a hoot ! That's one of the reasons I'd like to swap mine out with something that's Mopar, compatable, retains original "drum look", and is easy to get parts for. I can always go with the disc kit later on if I want. Right now, it's all about getting it to move, and then to stop.
Bigblockmopar has a good idea and it's kinda the way I'm leaning. I found a couple of donor cars from 65-67. That's where the rear end came from.
Would I need the upper and lower control arms as well as the spindles ? And what ball joints would I get, 1961 or the year of the donor car? Or wouldn't any of that stuff work anyway ? Thanks to everyone for the help. You're making this rescue enjoyable.
"LOOKING FORWARD" to meeting some of you at Carlisle.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 480
Location: The Great Northwest | Your original post said you wanted to stay away from pulling the spindles but if you want to upgrade to a more conventional drum brake setup the 63 and newer design will require a spindle swap as mentioned in my earlier post. If I recall correctly, one or more holes will have to be enlarged a little to accommodate the new drum brake spindles. Then again, I could be mentally weak from just finishing a complete rebuild on the 61 'total contact' drum brake system................ |
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Expert
Posts: 4043
Location: Connecticut | Instead of putting together a hodge-podge of parts from different cars, which will result in endless headaches, I would recommend just getting the AAJ kit. You can have the conversion finished in a day or two and be able to drive the car right away. Otherwise, it will be one problem after another. Ron |
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Expert
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Location: little rock, AR | If you decide to keep drum brakes I have parts cars or try Big M
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Contrary to what Ron has written, above, retrofitting larger (or new-) brake drum assemblies is not a
complicated procedure.
The most important aspect is getting the new brake drums, that are now available in various sizes, on
the Evilpay.
Used backing plates (if a larger sized brake is to be installed) and new hardware are readily available.
One 'trick' to the installing of the re-popped drums is that they are of 1-piece construction (IIRC).
On previous threads, it has been discussed that the Lockheed Centerplane drums (on our cars) are composed of a hub,
and a drum, section...which are physically held together by pressed-in ("swaged") center-studs.
For ease of maintenance, on the rear brakes, their two sections can be separated, so that the rear brake linings can
be removed from their inner 'hub' sections, without having to use an axle puller (in the future) to remove the rear brake drum assemblies from the rear axle.
The front drums merely slide off of their mounting spindles.
So, have your brake shop confirm which of the four drums are the best/roundest, and use/turn the best 'two' of them
for your rear wheels (having the detachable inner hub sections, on them, for easy future service-maintenance).
And buy/install the new 1-piece brake drums for the front of your car.
And, as above noted, you have a purchase-choice regarding Firm Feel's carbon-metallic linings,
or Mobileparts' asbestos linings.
Edited by d500neil 2015-04-04 6:45 PM
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Front Drum Swap 1961
