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Veteran
Posts: 144
 
Location: Bournemouth, UK | I would like to improve the breathing of my 1955 poly engine (Chrysler Spitfire, stock 2 barrel manifold and carb, same block of 331 Hemi) to give it a bit more response and hopefully improve mileage too, but I have been reading and looking around for a while, and it looks that there is no 4 barrel manifold available for it.
Yesterday I have seen on sale at www.vintagespeed.com what they call Y adapters to mount 2 dual barrel carburettors (1 primary and 1 secondary with progressive linkage) on a dual barrel manifold, but I am doubtful on the fact that the restriction at the manifold intake will reduce the benefit of this setup.
Has anybody tried or seen this setup before, and does it work well? How noticeable is the improvement of performance and mileage, can it be compared to a 4 barrel?
Oh, and if you have any news about 4 barrels intakes that bolt on my engine please let me know!!
I have another question regarding the performance of my car (1955 Chrysler Windsor SW), as she is my first american and I don't have anythingh else to compare it....
The maximum speed I have reached is, according to the speedo, 100 mph, it was less than 1/3 throttle and the engine was not revving much, I was too scared to push more but it definitely had some more in... is this normal for an old lady like her???
The tires are now radials (smaller diameter), so probably the speedo is reading a bit high, but not much judging from other cars speed, I mean if I drive at 50 where 50mph limits is everibody goes at the same speed as me....
I suspect that at some point in the past the rear end has been changed to a longer ratio: even at full throttle I can't make the wheels spinning when accelerating but once again, I don't know if it is supposed to happen!!!
Thanks for your help,
Pierpaolo |
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Board Moderator
Posts: 3186
 
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | According to several members on this forum, the 4bbl from a 331 or 354 hemi could fit this engine.
For certain the 4bbl for the 1957 354 Spitfire PowerPak found in the Saratoga is a fit. |
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Member
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Location: Long Island, NY | The deck height is the same, but the hemi ports are larger. According to all my information, the port's angle on the head is 10 degrees different, hemi is 25, poly is 15. On a vertical surface 2" tall a 10 degree error makes a gap .353" wide.
I believe that this idea (hemi manifold fits) comes from someone assuming that the 4 bbl. manifold they had, which fit their poly, had to be from a hemi - when in fact it was a Saratoga. |
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Veteran
Posts: 144
Location: Bournemouth, UK | Panic, I have read about the difference of the port angle on your booklet, that's why I assumed that no manifold was available.
I didn't know that the 1957 saratoga had a 4 barrel manifold , that I understand (please correct me if I am wrong) is a straigth bolt on.
Is this manifold easy to find, and is there anybody that wants to sell one?
By the way, I am still curious about the 2x2 Y adaptor performance, and if somebody can give me some data about the speed of my car........... |
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Board Moderator
Posts: 3186
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | Jeff....I have had several people tell me the poly and hemi Chrysler manifolds are the same angle.
I do not necessarily believe them, as you have indicated the aforementioned 10 degree machining difference.
Maybe the CASTING numbers are the same, but the final machined assy part numbers are different (which do not appear on the manifold).
SO...Here goes.
Who out there has a HEMI and a POLY Chrysler engine, to check the applications of these manifolds across both types of engines, and report back to all of us with the definitive information?
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Location: Rusting In New York, hello... | pierpaolo - 2005-02-10 7:49 AM
I didn't know that the 1957 saratoga had a 4 barrel manifold , that I understand (please correct me if I am wrong) is a straigth bolt on.
Is this manifold easy to find, and is there anybody that wants to sell one?
..
FWIW, all of the '57/'58 Saratogas I've looked at, including the one I bought, the intake is long gone. That tells me they came with a 4-bbl, the 2-barrel stuff has never really been in demand. My book says the 4-bbl is standard on the 57 and 58 Saratoga, which both ran the poly 354 - probably optional on the Windsor too. That should make it fairly easy to find with around 54,000 of them built. Then again, finding a '57/8 Saratoga's not exactly easy - I know of three or four total that are within easy reach of me.
The place I was into down in the Catskills probably has some - if I ever get back and have time I can grab one, but keep looking in the meantime because I've no idea when I will get to it. There were a lot of cars the motors had never been touched in once they were parked, a lot of them still had radiators and generators and so forth. Out of the dozen or so 57-58's, none were New Yorkers, so the odds at least one is a Saratoga is good.
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Vintage Mechanix Illustrated back issues, you might find a drive test of your car that will give some idea of the performance capability -
Bill K. |
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Member
Posts: 26
Location: Long Island, NY | I'm sure I've seen one on eBay within the last 6 months. |
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Veteran
Posts: 144
Location: Bournemouth, UK | Will the 58 4 barrel manifold fit the 55 Chrysler poly as well as the 57? |
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Veteran
Posts: 144
Location: Bournemouth, UK | I have just checked the Chrysler parts list (www.imperialclub.com/Part/Manual/page237.htm), and the part number for 57/58 intake manifolds is the same for all the cars (4bbl) except that for the Windsor (2bbl).
Windsor (2bbl) and Saratoga (4bbl) share the same head (www.imperialclub.com/Part/Manual/page258.htm).
Now, I don't know if casting number and part number are the same, so it could be, as Panic says, that they have the same number but they are machined differently.
In the other case, could this mean that in 55 & 56 the port angle between hemi and poly was different and then in 57 they made the same port angles for 2 and 4 bbl poly and hemi manifolds? Panic, the angles you have found are related to one particular year or to all years?
If this is true (just a guess!), it will be interesting to know if they made the angle in 57 the same as the previous poly or hemi angle (15 or 25 degrees)
Bill, I would be really grateful if you could let me know of any available 4bbl manifold and help me in getting it. Do you have an idea of how heavy could it be, just to check how much does it cost the shipping to UK?
Pierpaolo |
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Board Moderator
Posts: 3186
Location: The not-so-great, dirty-white North ( Michigan) | A bare Chrysler intake manifold weighs about 55 pounds. |
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Veteran
Posts: 144
Location: Bournemouth, UK | I have taken this images from the 55 chrysler FSM, the first is a hemi and the second a poly, it looks like they have the same intake angles......so, I am still curious to know if somebody has ever tried (successfully I hope!) to put a chrysler hemi 4bbl intake on a chrysler poly engine.
Panic, what does exacly mean when you say that "the ports are larger"?
PS: Any opinion about the 2x2 Y adapter, anyone?
 (hemi.jpg)
 (poly.jpg)
Attachments
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 hemi.jpg (91KB - 121 downloads)
poly.jpg (79KB - 128 downloads)
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Expert
Posts: 2474
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia | Originally posted by pierpaolo
.....By the way, I am still curious about the 2x2 Y adaptor performance, and if somebody can give me some data about the speed of my car.
I wouldn't think it could be nearly as efficient as a manifold designed for the job...
You might make a project of checking the diff ratio, by the way. It is marked externally on the housing, IIRC, or maybe on the pinion shaft.
But with the car chocked and out of gear, with one wheel on the ground and the other free to turn, count the turns the wheel makes to one turn of the tail shaft... better, count the turns of the wheel to ten of the tail shaft so your accuracy is greater. The product of this must be divided by two (as only one wheel is turning) to get the ratio.
Speedo check? Is there a clearly and accurately marked mile you can use? If so, sit on a constant speed and time the mile. Divide the number of seconds that it takes into 3600 and you have the exact speed you were doing... compare that to what the speedo said. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany |
Speedo check? Is there a clearly and accurately marked mile you can use? If so, sit on a constant speed and time the mile. Divide the number of seconds that it takes into 3600 and you have the exact speed you were doing... compare that to what the speedo said.
just go thru a radar trapp. that's what i did  at least i know now my speedo reads correct |
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Expert
Posts: 2474
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia | Not if they can time a stationary wall at 54kmh and a Holden Gemini at 235kmh! |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7409
Location: northern germany | Ray Bell - 2005-03-11 6:38 PM
Not if they can time a stationary wall at 54kmh and a Holden Gemini at 235kmh!
guess, you mean laser trapp. |
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Expert
Posts: 2474
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia | No... radar... on the Tullamarine Freeway in Melbourne. At least for the Gemini, it was some impossible speed.
The wall was in a test. |
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Veteran
Posts: 144
Location: Bournemouth, UK | I have the possibility to put my hands on a 58 chrysler 4bbl intake now, so I am resuming this old thread, as I am still confused.
The manifold is listed ( http://www.imperialclub.com/Part/Manual/page237.htm ) for all 57-58 chrylers except windsor and 300.
In the same years the windsor (2bbl) and saratoga (4bbl) share the same heads, so I assume that in 57 & 58 the heads had all the same intake ports angle, that it looks not to be true in 55-56, from what panic says.
I am aslo thinking to the different deck height between 55-56 and 57-58 hemis, and I wonder if it is the same between the polys.
Basically: will the 58 4bbl manifold bolt on on my 55 chrysler 301 poly? If in 58 the angle was uniform, was the same as the earlier hemi or poly, and was this angle really different in 55?
If anyone can help me with this puzzle please let me know, it's driving me mad..........
Regards |
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2x2 Y adapter and max speed
