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Veteran
Posts: 295
 
Location: Tallapoosa, GA | Hey everyone!
My buddy found a 383 with trans in a 63 Chrysler parts car. I'm wanting to put it into my 57 Belvedere, and other posts I viewed illustrated that the combo should fit.
My question(s) are:
1) Will the 63 engine mounts bolt into the Plymouth
2) Will the 63 pushbutton cable fit the Plymouth button assembly
3) Will the 63 park brake cable fit the Plymouth hand brake (or vice versa)
4) Will the 63 trans mount fit the Plymouth crossmember
5) And, will the driveshaft on either the Plymouth or the Chrysler fit, or what's the best modification
Looking forward to your input!!
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Expert
Posts: 3035
 
Location: N.W. Fla. | There are bell & crank-flange changes that'62 & up won't bolt to your tranny. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7403
Location: northern germany | he asked if the newer engine and transmission bolts into his 57 |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9679
Location: So. Cal | You didn't say if your car is an original 6 cyl car or poly V8. That is somewhat important to know to be able to give any answers, but assuming that you have a V8,
1. I'm pretty sure the motor mounts are different from '63 to '57 so you will need to use the '57 mounts. But I think that you can modify your original '57 mounts to work with the big block. Check past threads to find out how. Or try to find original big block mounts for your car.
2. I don't know. Maybe.
3. Not unless you are really good at fabbing it up to work
4. Yes, it may move fore or aft an inch or two, but should't be a problem. But with new motor to new trans, it may not move at all. It's best to measure it out of course.
5. I don't think the '63 trans has a parking brake on it so of course the '57 driveshaft isn't going to mount up. It is very unlikely that the Chrysler has the same shaft length that you need but it would be a good start to get something to shorten down to the correct length. |
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Veteran
Posts: 295
Location: Tallapoosa, GA |
Thank you, Powerflite. And yes, my 57 used to be a 301 V8 with a torqueflite. My buddy's going back up to the salvage yard tomorrow to get some pics, so I'll have him look to see if it has the parking brake or not. |
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Expert
Posts: 3035
Location: N.W. Fla. | 1960fury - 2015-06-28 6:20 PM
he asked if the newer engine and transmission bolts into his 57 Looks like I miss read it....While he's @ the junk yard have him brab as much as he can. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6500
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | The motor mounts are a little different. the 301/318a are offset forward. The Big block style are close to neutral concerning the 'mounts' to the 'cylinder' marc.
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Expert
Posts: 3778
Location: NorCal |
1) Since the '57 never came with a big block there is no "original mounts" that will work but the ears on the side of the block are the same for 99% of the big blocks so the '58 mounts should work.
2) No, but the '63 cable will hook right up to your pushbutton shifter.
3) A '63 727 shouldn't have a tail-mounted parking brake, the parking brake was moved to the rear end.
4) No, you'll have to fabricate. (see below)
5) Most likely not.
Here's a pic of the setup used to mount a '62-'65 727 to a '57 Chrysler rear crossmember. The mount itself is the spool type from a '69 or later Mopar. The aluminum block adapts the different bolt patterns and it mounts to a fabricated perch welded to the crossmember.
 (transmount.jpg)
Attachments
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 transmount.jpg (72KB - 134 downloads)
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Veteran
Posts: 295
Location: Tallapoosa, GA | Thank you guys!! Yeah, that fab on the crossmember is no problem, I can handle that easy enough. And thank you for clarifying that the trans' of that era do not have a park brake at the tail shaft (I've never owned a 61-64 Mopar anything, so I was a little green on that). As long as there is something to put it into "park" independent of the button cable, no sweat. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6500
Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | A small web site info on 1962-64/5 cable torqueflites.
http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/transtech.html |
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | just my 2 cents worth. Many years ago I installed a 60 361 into a 57 Fury using the stock 58 big block mounts. Everything bolted in perfectly with no problems. The 301/318 mounts will not bolt to the big block without modification as previously mentioned. Since I was using a 60 manual trans. it also fit with no mods and I do not remember which driveshaft I used (57 or 60) but did not have to have a special shaft made. I am not sure how hard it is to find those cylindrical mounts in usable shape today, but they made it an easy swap. |
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Expert
Posts: 3778
Location: NorCal | cbrayinga - 2015-06-29 1:25 PM
As long as there is something to put it into "park" independent of the button cable, no sweat.
You'll have to perform more fabrication because the pre-'62 shifter mechanism has no provisions to operate the Park cable. I robbed the Park mechanism from a later shifter mechanism and hung it in a box under the dash.
 (Park plate.jpg)
 (Park Low.jpg)
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Park plate.jpg (60KB - 137 downloads)
Park Low.jpg (68KB - 140 downloads)
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Veteran
Posts: 295
Location: Tallapoosa, GA |
Thank you for the tech tips, guys!!! I got the pics of two cars in the junkyard today from my buddy.... turns out the Chrysler is a 64, and there's a 61 Dodge in there also. Both engines are seized (no surprise there), but both are
pushbutton transmissions. The salvage yard wants $200 for either engine, which I think is nuts for a motor that's seized, rusty, and who knows what else, so I'm going to wait 'til I can find a cheap 400 engine that at least turns over.
Now, I'm tossing around whether I should go with the 61 trans, cables, and torque converter and just shop around for a 350, 361 crank to drop into a 400 to rebuild.......OR....... go with the 64 trans, cables, and make the mount mods and use a newer style driveshaft. That newer park cable mod looks pretty simple, and I'm sure I can mod my hand brake lever on the Plymouth to work the park cable.
It appears the 61 still has the park brake drum, so I'm assuming (yep, I know how to 'spell' assume!) that it MAY fit the
Plymouth crossmember? Anyone know if the 61 trans is a one-piece aluminum housing, or is it like the old cast iron ones
with the separate bell-housing? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | The 61 is a cast iron one, and is liquid cooled, may not be the same as your 57 (not sure if yours is air cooled?), but it should bolt straight up to your 301
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Veteran
Posts: 295
Location: Tallapoosa, GA |
Thank you, ttotired!! |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | Just make sure you get the torque converter and the cables and kick down arms as well (if you can), the more bits the better
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Veteran
Posts: 295
Location: Tallapoosa, GA |
Well, I've decided which route I hope to take. I'm going with the 64 Chrysler trans, simply because it doesn't limit my
engine choices like the older 61 trans does. Plus, I'd like to put a shift kit in the 727, and it should be easier to find
performance parts for the 64 727. And, if I have to shorten the 64 Chrysler drive shaft, so be it....at least it has
standard U-joints front and rear.
Thanks for all the help, guys!! And thank you, mstrug, for the tech tip link...... that's a HUGE help. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 8443
Location: Perth Australia | If your going that route, then see if you can find a complete car that runs so you can remove the complete drive line from it, I am sure that it would work out cheaper in the long run, especially since the engine is locked up, which also means you have no idea if the trans is any good either
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Expert
Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | Hola Cris
The 1978 - 1958 Crank Shafts, Bearings Oil Pumps, Water Pumps, Cam Shafts, Intake Manifolds, Exhaust Manifolds and Rods from MoPar's 350 - 361 - 383 and 400 all
can be switched from one to another.
Because of The Vehicle the Engine is in --- Some Oil Pans and Exhaust Manifolds are only with certain vehicles. This means a 1973 Dodge Truck with a 400 can be used to
fit/ work in a 1960 something MoPar ( with the correct Crank Shaft - Torque Convertor - Exhaust Manifolds and Cast Iron Bell Housing ).
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The First Series MoPar 350's - 361's - 383's and 413`s all used a same part number Bell Housing, Torque Convertor and like items.
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The standard issued 1964 Chrysler Spec'd Transmission and Torque Convertor is at a higher Strength Level than a standard level Lower Divisional Automatic. The Crashler
weights more and The Engine is at a higher Torque.
Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs
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Veteran
Posts: 295
Location: Tallapoosa, GA |
Thank you, Rodger! I guess my next question would be how hard is it to find a 'reasonable' clean crank from a 350, 361?
I'm sticking with the 3.38" stroke crank vs. the 3.75" stroke of the old 59, etc. 383, 413s. I just like the way the shorter
stroke engines perform.
I know that if I got a crank from a 350, 361, I could use the 61 trans, bell housing, torque converter, and it would be a
bolt-in to the Plymouth.
Anyone out there have a decent crankshaft out of a 350 or 361 for sale reasonable? If so, maybe I'll go with the 61 trans. |
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Expert
Posts: 1506
Location: Colo Spgs | Hola Chris
All MoPar 350's - 361's - 383's* .... and 400's are a 3.38 inch stroke.
Only The above V8 Engines --- Crank Shaft --- made from 1958 to The End of The 1961 Production Year will fit your transmission's Input shaft and Torque Convertor. The
second part of using a 350 - 361 - 383** or 400 Engine is that you must use a same era Bell Housing ( Your Bell Housing wile Not fit these engines ). This includes The
383*/ 383** that is a Looong stroke 383 and era 413's.
*****
Most First Series 350 - 361*** and 383 Crank Shaft's were "tossed" in yester-year. This started after the 1962 introduction of the better transmissions.
*** 361's ceased being in cars in end of The 1965 Production Year. The did continue to be used in The 3 Ton and over Dodge Trucks or Dodge Bus's
*****
Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
Location: Finger Lakes NY | my car runs a complete 62 drivetrain it went in pretty easy |
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Veteran
Posts: 295
Location: Tallapoosa, GA |
Yeah, I'm thinkin' that older style crank is more BS than it's worth. I'm trying to find a running 383 or 400, and I'd hate to have to machine an older crank to put into an engine that may only need a re-ring job. Plus, I know any modern mild
shift kit will fit the 64 trans easily....(not sure if ANY performance parts will fit the old cast iron 61), and a shift-kit is something I am absolutely insistent on putting in. I had one in a 69 Road Runner with a 383 stock, except for an RV torquer cam, torquer II intake, and a 3:91 sure-grip. That car was an incredible amount of fun, lay rubber all day long, and was still very good on gas, and extremely streetable. |
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Expert
Posts: 3399
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | I may have access to a 361 crank, will find out in the next few days and post back. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7403
Location: northern germany | cbrayinga - 2015-07-01 7:41 AM
I'm sticking with the 3.38" stroke crank vs. the 3.75" stroke of the old 59, etc. 383, 413s. I just like the way the shorter
stroke engines perform.
its not often that you hear that. how true, the LOW deck big block is the superior engine. but i read between the line that you believe early 383 are all RB's. in fact the long stroke 383 is pretty rare and was a chrysler only engine in 59/60. 59/60 plymouth, dodge, desoto 383's are all B engines.
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Veteran
Posts: 295
Location: Tallapoosa, GA | Wow, that's interesting that the long stroke 383 was just Chrysler....didn't know that! Thanks for the info on that, 1960Fury!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1740
Location: Alaska | One more little correction, someone said the bell housing bolt pattern on the big blocks is different. Not so, they are all the same from 58 on. The only difference and problem is the crank flange. This is true for the hemis and polys only. BTW, when replacing the crank with a different one (especially with a 400 engine) you should have the rotating assy. rebalanced. |
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62-63 383 and trans in a 57 Plymouth
