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59 dodges are gone...
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-07-15 1:56 AM (#484515 - in reply to #484495)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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oldwood - 2015-07-15 4:37 PM

Thanks mstrug for posting my car but no one has any interest is a VERY highly optioned 4 dr at a good price.


===============================================

Why do you suppose that is ? The kind of people attracted to 59 Dodges only
want the super sexy body types ? Something else ?
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jimntempe
Posted 2015-07-15 12:20 PM (#484543 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Arizona		That 59 oldwood has is very nice looking. I can't handle any more cars but it would be one I would be interested in if I had more space and money to use on my "collection".
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Powerflite
Posted 2015-07-15 1:25 PM (#484548 - in reply to #484450)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Doctor DeSoto - 2015-07-14 10:56 PM
Why do you suppose that is ? The kind of people attracted to 59 Dodges only
want the super sexy body types ? Something else ?


For me, it is one word: "Pink".




Doctor DeSoto - 2015-07-14 8:29 AM
It would be like a prison sentence in a dungeon full of mad clowns.


If I were Swedish, I would have been quite offended by that statement. Was that your intent?
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1960fury
Posted 2015-07-15 5:12 PM (#484557 - in reply to #484548)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Powerflite - 2015-07-15 1:25 PM


If I were Swedish, I would have been quite offended by that statement. Was that your intent?


i don't think so, for doc 59 dodge front ends look like mad clown faces and i guess is thats what he meant. doc has a weird, or unique, way of seeing things. he also hates 58 chevy's, a car 99% of all (50s) car people, chevy or not, would say its a handsome and good designed car. iirc he also stated once he loves 57 plymouths but dislikes the 58..... well...... i do not think anyone can be offended by his statements anymore what scares me, i agree with him sometimes.

Edited by 1960fury 2015-07-15 5:25 PM
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Paul Hettick
Posted 2015-07-15 9:54 PM (#484572 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...


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Location: California		Doc, judge Paul sentences you to 1 year solitary confinement with only a 59 dodge and 59 fire sweep as cell mates.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-07-16 12:22 PM (#484612 - in reply to #484572)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Parts Unknown		I "argue" a point like lawyers argue a case. It is nothing personal or to be seen as
"offensive". I take "design" seriously, .... it is actually part of my business. And as
a result, I like to study it, compare it, and argue the good and bad points of it.

If a design has pointless or contrary elements, it is not cohesive and thusly a lesser
design. A design with smooth and continuous themes throughout is better. That is
pretty much standard fare in design school. One could run any subject/object through
that filter and make argument for or against. What chaps me is when people (typically
ignorant of design study) will base their design argument on nostalgic attachment (my
Dad had a _____, and I always loved those), ... or a contrary attraction to something.
I would argue that a 61 Dart is pretty darned ugly, .... from the dowdy "face" up front
to the bizarre and conflicting rear end treatment to the heavy sedan rooflines. Yet I like
them BECAUSE they are so ugly ! I'd say the design sucks, but I like them because
of it. Does that make sense ?

It would be like someone making a solid and sound case for say ... the 59 Dodge. I
may totally disagree, but the argument is so good, I'd have to respect the person's case
for being so tight and well based. It's nothing personal. It's just good discussion on a
subject we hold dear.

Some cars are over the top. Sid mentioned the 58 Chevy. Besides being a bloated
rework of the 57 design up front, the absurd rear end treatment (I offer ANYTHING that
Mopar was building as a comparison) is about as dumpy as sack full of trash sitting on
the curb. The sad interpretation of fins give the impression the poor car has a serious
case of diarrhea, and is puckered up to hold it in. Good design ? I guess, if a person
likes such things. I prefer the fins and sharp leading edges of Exner's 58 designs like
I prefer steak to metamucil. But that's just me. I welcome anyone who wants to make
a well founded argument on the positive merits of any design, especially those I disagree
with. Maybe they will point something out I had not thought of or noticed before ? No
one gave me the golden key to the crapper.

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Chrys 68
Posted 2015-07-16 12:50 PM (#484613 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: RE: 59 dodges are gone...



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Doc! Take care of yourself, take your medication and get well soon.
Best wishes from Sweden!

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Powerflite
Posted 2015-07-16 1:29 PM (#484616 - in reply to #484612)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: So. Cal		I do agree with you about the '58 Chevy Doc. The front end is as interesting as a brick and the back end is a mix of '57 and '59 fins, but rounded off and flopped to the point that it isn't a fin - more like a goofy clipped overhang. So it just doesn't work for me. If they had made a real fin out of it at the same angle without the floppy overhang, it would have looked a lot better. If I was to purchase a Chevy, I would definitely pass over '58.
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Paul Hettick
Posted 2015-07-16 1:29 PM (#484617 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...


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Location: California		Doc have you seen that old cheesy sci fi movie "Killer 59 Dodges from outer space"?
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Paul Hettick
Posted 2015-07-16 2:29 PM (#484623 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...


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Location: California		I agree on the 58 Chevy's. Also I find the 58 Pontiacs especially offensive. But, for some odd reason I like the 58 buick and especially the 58 Olds.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2015-07-16 2:35 PM (#484625 - in reply to #484613)
Subject: RE: 59 dodges are gone...


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ttotired
Posted 2015-07-16 5:01 PM (#484636 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Perth Australia		I like that paint job, but I would have stopped at the rear wheel arches

I dont like any of the chevies after 57

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1960fury
Posted 2015-07-16 6:53 PM (#484646 - in reply to #484636)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: northern germany		not liking 58 chevys is one thing, calling it ugly another. there is no ugly late 50s american fullsize car IF you love 50s design. wanna see UGLY? say so, and i post K-body pictures or pictures of 90s fiat multiplas....
58 chevys are very well proportioned cars, maybe even better than some forwardlooks and they are typical late 50s fullsize.
not without a reason it sold so well and that in a recession year. the late fifties were the ultimate of style and taste and 57/58 was the peak.

show me a guy who calls a 58 chev ugly and i show you a guy with no appreciation for 1950s car design.

Edited by 1960fury 2015-07-16 6:59 PM




(Joe-hurst-1958-chevrolet-impala.jpg)



(1958_Chevy_Impala_2_door_hardtop.jpg~original.jpg)



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Attachments 1958_Chevy_Impala_2_door_hardtop.jpg~original.jpg (82KB - 131 downloads)
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jimntempe
Posted 2015-07-16 7:13 PM (#484647 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Arizona		A design can hit all the right 'notes' according to "how to design something" and still be ugly in peoples opinon. And similarly a design can do everything wrong and people might still fall in love with it. I'm sure that every, or at least most, "ugly" cars that hit the showrooms had a bunch of people behind it who thought they hit it out of the park. And then there was the Yugo......so ugly and poorly designed you had to love it.
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1960fury
Posted 2015-07-16 7:27 PM (#484649 - in reply to #484647)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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jimntempe - 2015-07-16 7:13 PM

A design can hit all the right 'notes' according to "how to design something" and still be ugly in peoples opinon.


correct, i did not say anything contrary and read my last sentence in my previous post. for some 50s design is just ugly but they may have a 50s car for other reasons. if someone thinks a steaming turd is aesthetically pleasing so this is his opinion and there is no way you can teach him "right" or "wrong".
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jimntempe
Posted 2015-07-16 7:45 PM (#484652 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Arizona		I wasn't directing my comments to anyone else's comments in particular, just making a general observation. In an old car road test magazine I have they rated the 58 chevy as by far the best overall GM car when considering cost, performance, comfort etc. I find the design a bit odd as to me it doesn't really follow what I think of as the prior chevy "look" and the 59's of course went off in a completely different direction. I like how that "look" looks on the 58 pontiac a lot better. A lot of what makes a design motif a real success are actually some pretty small details and slight changes in proportion. You see it a lot when you compare "experimental" cars to the final production version. You can tell they are related but usually a lot of the really good look is lost making it fit into the constraints of actually putting it into production and having to make it possible to assemble and repoair it at a reasonable cost.
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Powerflite
Posted 2015-07-16 8:02 PM (#484653 - in reply to #484652)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: So. Cal		If I had to own a sleepy-eyed '58 Pontiac, I would definitely paint those headlight rings body color. Chrome just looks awful IMO.



(58 pontiac.jpg)



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mikes2nd
Posted 2015-07-16 10:12 PM (#484662 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...


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face it GM was at a loss in 57 and performed a poor mans copy of the forward look cars.... gaudy chrome with plain lines... the GM cars stink of desperation to copy Chryslers beautiful lines and chrome.

Its like a teenager designed them... slap all kinds of chrome, try to copy the basic lines... junk... fords were just horrible and gawky.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2015-07-16 10:24 PM (#484665 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...


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the 58 chevy was NOT a good performing car... don't see how it was the best car, they were pretty much the same.

GM performance was laughable compared to Chrysler.

This was made by Chrysler of course but this isn't fake...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrKAVfS3Ui0
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Paul Hettick
Posted 2015-07-17 2:21 AM (#484677 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...


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Location: California		Yes the headlights on the 58 Pontiac look like they have bags under their eyes. On the other hand I love 59 Pontiacs. Especially the Bonneville's with the tri tone interiors
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-07-17 11:29 AM (#484688 - in reply to #484677)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Parts Unknown		Reading the history behind the design and development of the 58 GM line,
it was largely reactionary to Mopar's 57 designs, and their idea to one-up
Mopar was to make them bigger and slather the gee-gaw on them like icing
on a birthday cake. They were highly successful in this mission, but the results
made for some rather clownishly over decorated puff balls.

This brings us back around to "design", ... or more pointedly GOOD design,
of which "more" or "busier" is often times a contrary concept to GOOD design.
I think of a 3/4 side/rear profile of a 58 Plymouth coupe and that of a 58 Chevy.
If anyone wants to argue that the 58 Chevy design is a good one from there, I
am ready for a good laugh.

A person may like it. Maybe Dad had one, or they just like mish-mashed elements
on a bloated body ? But making the argument that this is some superior design is
a bit of a joke.

The thing is, it's perfectly legit to argue .... "Hey, ... I like them, regardless !"

But to argue that it is a great design is an entirely different enchilada.

My sister-in-law used to try and tell me how great "sh!t" music was. This is
someone who can't read music, has never even picked up a musical instrument
of any kind. I asked how anyone could possibly know good music from bad when
they have no grasp of the most basic elements ?

In the end, she came to understand the difference between the declarative statement
"I really like this song", as opposed to "This is great music".

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1960fury
Posted 2015-07-17 1:46 PM (#484692 - in reply to #484688)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Doctor DeSoto - 2015-07-17 11:29 AM

Reading the history behind the design and development of the 58 GM line,
it was largely reactionary to Mopar's 57 designs, and their idea to one-up
Mopar was to make them bigger and slather the gee-gaw on them like icing
on a birthday cake. They were highly successful in this mission, but the results
made for some rather clownishly over decorated puff balls.

This brings us back around to "design", ... or more pointedly GOOD design,
of which "more" or "busier" is often times a contrary concept to GOOD design.
I think of a 3/4 side/rear profile of a 58 Plymouth coupe and that of a 58 Chevy.
If anyone wants to argue that the 58 Chevy design is a good one from there, I
am ready for a good laugh.

A person may like it. Maybe Dad had one, or they just like mish-mashed elements
on a bloated body ? But making the argument that this is some superior design is
a bit of a joke.

The thing is, it's perfectly legit to argue .... "Hey, ... I like them, regardless !"

But to argue that it is a great design is an entirely different enchilada.

My sister-in-law used to try and tell me how great "sh!t" music was. This is
someone who can't read music, has never even picked up a musical instrument
of any kind. I asked how anyone could possibly know good music from bad when
they have no grasp of the most basic elements ?

In the end, she came to understand the difference between the declarative statement
"I really like this song", as opposed to "This is great music".



nobody hear said its a "superior" design. of course fl's are nicer. this does not make a 58 chevy UGLY. its a typical late 50s american full size car. in the 50s there was no UGLY full size car unless you are simply not into late 50s design.
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mikes2nd
Posted 2015-07-17 5:28 PM (#484708 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: RE: 59 dodges are gone...


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eh there were some fugly cars...

I mean the edsel?... No one called this beautiful... Unique... "different but never beautiful or sleek...

the 1957 ford.. hideous car... the 58 was a Desoto/Chrysler ripoff, the 59 right back to ugly...








(162_2.jpg)



(cars1926.jpg)



(cars1939.jpg)



(1957-ford-011.jpg)



(1959-ford-fairlane-500-club-sedan.jpg)



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Attachments 1959-ford-fairlane-500-club-sedan.jpg (362KB - 121 downloads)
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jimntempe
Posted 2015-07-17 5:47 PM (#484710 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Arizona		Only the Mercury's of that vintage came close to pulling it off.



(58.mercury.parklane.jpg)



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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-07-17 9:54 PM (#484721 - in reply to #484710)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Parts Unknown		Those Mercs had a mighty dumpy looking rear bumper.

Sid, ... I hear your point. You are more dedicated to all things late-50's. I am more
critical. And to be honest, I'll take even the "ugly" 50's cars cluttering up my view over
all the plastic cars we see today. At least they have character.

I guess that is where I keep a dual logic on this ... I like just about anything pre-70 in
one aspect or another simply because stuff back then had character. But I also run everything
through a critical filter of would I want one for myself, and why. Probably the result of pre-
law classes and later studying design.

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d500neil
Posted 2015-07-18 11:02 AM (#484757 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Location: bishop, ca		The 58 Merc's rear bumper's design (and its rear end) was not a thing of beauty: just too uncoordinated in its
different styling 'tricks'.

The 1959 Merc's entire design WAS a thing of beauty, though!

The main styling problem(s) with the 58(+) Generic Motors-mobiles is that they looked as light (and maneuverable) as a TON
of bricks (and, handled about as well, too).

Just as ONE relatively random example: compare and contrast the overall styling of the 1961
DeSoto with ANY Generally Monstrous designs....the former looks like it's in the process of
taking flight...the latter ilk look like they can't get off the round, or, out of their own 'weight'!

Here's what the GM Mark of Excrement thought about the 58-59 bodies' designs...
WHOOPS; no FRONT ends???









Edited by d500neil 2015-07-18 11:48 AM




(PICT5162.JPG)



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(PICT5164.JPG)



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jimntempe
Posted 2015-07-18 10:33 PM (#484793 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Arizona		I remember my dad, in around 1959 when he had a series of FLs, talking about the new car his best friend had just bought, which was a 58 Mercury.. he said compared to the FLs the Mercury was like driving a truck.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2015-07-18 11:51 PM (#484799 - in reply to #484793)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Parts Unknown		Having driven both, I'd pretty much agree, except the suspension on the FOMOCO
cars was really soft and steering spongy.
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1961plymouthfury
Posted 2015-07-18 11:59 PM (#484800 - in reply to #484646)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...


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Location: Minor Hill, TN		I used to own a 1958 Impala but I never got to drive it , The body was so badly rotted I ended up Junking it
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mstrug
Posted 2015-07-19 1:16 PM (#484843 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth)		Back to Dodges:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/5128197844.html

1959 dodge coronet 2 door - $7000 (Snohomish

Runs and drives
No trades
Don't want to sell, I love this car!
Windows are sticky/stuck up
Trunk is rusty

Family stuff is priority right now

325 V8 poly (Not a Hemi)
Looks all stock
New fuel tank
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Chrys 68
Posted 2015-07-22 3:15 AM (#485107 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: RE: 59 dodges are gone...



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To get Doc to feel a little bit better .....

Fortunately, both for sale! Come on, Doc! Step out of the closet!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1959-dodge-memphian-ambulance.984260/

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Viper Guy
Posted 2015-07-27 3:52 PM (#485291 - in reply to #482220)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Posts: 2004
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Location: Branson, MO		Here's one I came across recently that Doctor DeSoto might even like! This baby (station wagon) is very masculine in color - two tone white with baby blue accent, has the greatest "style" of any '59 Dodge with the baby blue painted "steelie" wheels and chrome acorn center caps, chrome lug nuts and beauty rings.

There have been problems in being able to attach photos but I'll try it anyway.

"It's delightful, it's delovely, it's DeSoto"

Photo did not attach. Will try again at another time.

Edited by Viper Guy 2015-07-27 4:32 PM
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Viper Guy
Posted 2015-07-28 12:46 PM (#485426 - in reply to #485291)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Posts: 2004
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Location: Branson, MO		Trying to attach a photo again. Hope it works.

It didn't. Will wait till I read that the system is back up an running.

Edited by Viper Guy 2015-07-28 12:50 PM
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spinout
Posted 2015-07-28 1:52 PM (#485432 - in reply to #485426)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland
Viper Guy - 2015-07-28 9:46 PM
Trying to attach a photo again. Hope it works.
It didn't. Will wait till I read that the system is back up an running.


Sent PM to you. I could attach your picture using the image sharing service.
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d500neil
Posted 2015-07-28 2:09 PM (#485436 - in reply to #485432)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca		How do we access the Image Sharing service?

Is it different from our website's (currently non-operational) photo-attaching procedure/process?


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spinout
Posted 2015-07-28 2:21 PM (#485438 - in reply to #485436)
Subject: Re: 59 dodges are gone...



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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland
d500neil - 2015-07-28 11:09 PM
How do we access the Image Sharing service?
Is it different from our website's (currently non-operational) photo-attaching procedure/process?


There are several out there, but I have an account in TinyPic. I upload a picture there first
and then post it here using the "img src" html tag following the image URL.


Here is Viper Guy's '59 Dodge picture:



Edited by spinout 2015-07-28 4:15 PM
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