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Reinforced rear shackles anyone?
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wizard
Posted 2015-09-14 1:44 PM (#489614)
Subject: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Hi guys does someone have any experience with reinforced rear leaf spring shackles?

I have been dwelling about making myself a pair to see if they make any difference to the standard ones. Are there any heavy duty rear shackles for our cars for sale somewhere?

Thankful for your input.........
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wizard
Posted 2015-09-15 1:34 AM (#489678 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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No one, hard to believe, what about you Sid?
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-09-15 4:46 AM (#489686 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Sven, maybe this is an item that doesn't need much improvement...

Plenty of folks using (leafspring) Mopars do circuit racing without any issues as far as I know. I'm not aware any of the AAR series used modified shackles.
But as a simple test, you can always modify a pair of shackles by welding steel strips on the sides, and maybe weld a tube over the horizontal shafts.

Then comes the question, 'how' will you test these shackles for rigidity and has it improved over the stock ones?
Next question; How many stock shackles have you seen fail by being used beyond their 'designed specs'?


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wizard
Posted 2015-09-15 5:42 AM (#489687 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Thanks' for your input Herman, really appreciate it! As I drive much on country roads I'm always looking for any handling improvement and I'm going to change the shackle bushings this winter to a harder type of rubber. The reinforced shackles are discussed on muscle car forums, but I really don't understand if they improve the handling or not.

Also, you're right - it's difficult to test and get a proper result as I'm changing the bushings also.

I was thinking the same - a cut up tube welded onto the shackel, but I'm not too happy about welding in suspension components. Perhaps I'll build new ones instead!??!

I never saw a shackel broken or destroyed, so that's another point to you
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1960fury
Posted 2015-09-15 7:43 AM (#489699 - in reply to #489678)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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wizard - 2015-09-15 1:34 AM

No one, hard to believe, what about you Sid?


never heard about that, you mean they can bend or break? never experienced that and never ever saw a car with damaged shackles. i'd say bend shackles are quite unlikely the way they are designed.
i'm using poly front eye and poly shackle bushings and even after way over 100k miles they are just like new. no signs of wear and still tight.
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wizard
Posted 2015-09-15 8:22 AM (#489709 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Great, thanks for confirming that Sid! I have never Heard about any bent ones either, my thought was more of a stability question.
I'm using poly front eye as well, but oem ones in the shackles - I'll change them this winter.

What shocks do you guys use?

Good that you bouth kicked in - I counted on you two as I know that you like active driving

Edited by wizard 2015-09-15 8:23 AM
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-09-15 9:08 AM (#489710 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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I'm using polyurethane bushings on the rear suspension of all my cars.
My fullsize cars have Monroe Sensatrac Loadleveler shocks, but my daily A-body Dodge Dart has adjustable QA1 shocks, which are far superior to the Monroe's.
Same goes for the front shocks. I 'was' a fan of the KYB's front, but having experienced the difference in ride-quality with good quality shocks with better rebound-control, the KYB's seem pale in comparison.

I've recently installed a pair of used adjustable Koni shocks on the rear of my '62 wagon, which also had Monroe's. The car drives much safer now and I don't miss the helper springs at all. Only a rear swaybar would be a nice addition to the wagon I'm sure.



Edited by BigBlockMopar 2015-09-15 9:09 AM
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1960fury
Posted 2015-09-15 9:37 AM (#489711 - in reply to #489709)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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the 1" diameter B (and some A) poly bushings fit our cars. i'm using KYBs in the rear too which i installed upside down, with poly boots. also using a rear sway bar, which i designed and had custom made for my fury. the funny thing when i installed it i found stock holes in the body which were in the perfect location for the inner sway bar brackets! so no need to drill, weld or cut the body! although a couple of years later, i had to weld in a little reinforcement because i noticed the trunk floor was a little flexing caused by the sway bar. no big deal.

Edited by 1960fury 2015-09-15 9:44 AM
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wizard
Posted 2015-09-15 1:00 PM (#489727 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Herman, is this the Monroe that you've been using? http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=294397&cc=1327700&j...
What about the ride height - do they lift the car or just maintain? Direct fit?

Could you post a link to the QA1 shocks that you used?

Sid, what was the reason for to mount the KYB shocks upside down?

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1960fury
Posted 2015-09-15 1:13 PM (#489731 - in reply to #489727)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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wizard - 2015-09-15 1:00 PM


Sid, what was the reason for to mount the KYB shocks upside down?



i know it sound weird when running a solid straight axle but i try everything to reduce unsprung weight as i drive pretty "spirited". i'm using upside-down shocks in front too and surprisingly upside-down shocks for our cars were available in the 50s. moog "commander" brand. i modified kyb gas shocks. you can't do that with the stock oriflows.
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-09-15 3:29 PM (#489750 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: RE: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Sven, yes those are the shocks I still have on most of my cars.
They lift the rear up about 0.5 to 0.75 inch by helping the original springs.
The helpersprings on the shocks increase the overal springrate on the rear, which all American cars of that era would benefit from IMO.

But when springs get stronger, the shocks must be upgraded too, to be able to control/dampen the suspension movements better.


"My Chrysler drove like a Cadillac... but luckily I was able to fix that..."

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wizard
Posted 2015-09-15 3:38 PM (#489753 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Thanks' Sid and Herman!

Herman, I dont need the lift up - I need "neutral shocks", so I guess the Monroes wont do for me. What about the QA1 shocks??

Sid, are you satisfied with the KYB shocks? Do you have a part number?

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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-09-15 3:52 PM (#489754 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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I'll have to look up the partnr. on the QA1 shocks.
I bought them from someone on the German Mopar forum (just like the Bilstein and Koni shocks from others there).

The QA1 shocks don't lift the car. They just control the suspension movements better (less 'Cadillac'-like wobbling, more mature/modern like).
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-09-15 4:04 PM (#489755 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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There was no partnr. on the shippingbox but I think these are the QA1 shocks I must have under my daily;

http://www.qa1.net/suspension/street-performance-racing-shocks-stru...

Not your average $20,- "bicycle pump" shock

Edited by BigBlockMopar 2015-09-15 4:05 PM
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wizard
Posted 2015-09-15 4:33 PM (#489759 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Thanks' Herman!
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-09-15 4:44 PM (#489761 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Some further info, I've got the Single Adjustable shocks.
You can also get these in Double Adjustable, and Non-Adjustable.

With the Single adjustable shocks you can adjust the shock's rebound-settings, or upwards motion.
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60 dart
Posted 2015-09-16 12:14 AM (#489786 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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i've got more beefy adjustable shackles but only because i hate level riding cars . you put two people in the back and its nose up ----------------------------------------------later
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wizard
Posted 2015-09-16 4:57 AM (#489795 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Thanks' for all input guys, really appreciate it!

Let's imagine that I change the rear shocks to the QA1 type, must I also change the front ones to the same type?

I need to balance the costs, so new KYB's in all corners is perhaps my best option?
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-09-16 6:08 AM (#489798 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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The QA1 shocks are in a different league than the KYB's.
If you only change the rear shocks, you will start noticing the 'lousy' front shocks more

But you could also look into the costs of a set of (adj.) Koni shocks perhaps. Or the Bilstein RCD 'Classics', which are all a good improvement over the 'cheaper' shocks.
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1960fury
Posted 2015-09-17 5:08 PM (#489907 - in reply to #489753)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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wizard - 2015-09-15 3:38 PM


Sid, are you satisfied with the KYB shocks? Do you have a part number?



yes i am, but i have no real comparison. they are so cheap that i believe herman that the bilsteins are better.

in the rear i use the regular "fl" kyb's. a direct bolt in. don't have the # but these have been posted here before, same as mid 60s c body shocks i believe. in front i use the mopar shocks that have a bayonet end on both sides and welded a shock eye from an old oriflow (with poly bushings) to the rod (light) side.

Edited by 1960fury 2015-09-17 5:14 PM
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wizard
Posted 2015-09-18 2:00 AM (#489934 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Thanks' Sid! I have contacted RCD, Bilstein and Koni and asked for a quotation for a direct fit - no answer from them yet............
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wizard
Posted 2015-09-23 2:27 AM (#490389 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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So far Koni claims that they don't have any shocks for my car and I just got the same answer from Bilstein. That seems totally strange to me??

From RCD; total silence......

Herman, do you have any part numbers?
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jimntempe
Posted 2015-09-23 1:30 PM (#490435 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Read the below which I got from an Imperial Owners website. You'll see part numbers for KYB and Gabriel. The Gabriel are what I put on my 60 Dodge. The info below was for Imperial but it seems that the same shocks fit a whole lot of different FLs. Using the KYB and Gabriel part numbers you should be able ask anyone else to cross reference them to a different brand. Also attached is a screen shot I saved showing how the dimensions between the Gabriel and KYB compare. A lot of companies don't show these FL applications because the dimensions are not an exact match to the original shocks and they don't want people complaining. Also you sometimes have to grind something slightly to make it fit or get it installed.

Notice the difference in lengths.  The compressed length of the KYB is longer so if you hit a really hard bump you concievealby could mash the KYB whereas the gabrial might not get mashed.  If someone has a set of original factory shocks they could measure it would be interesting to see what their dimensions actually were for length, full extension and full compression.

 

================ Shock Absorbers - These are now available from Gabriel and KYB for the 1964-66 Imperial. Personal experience with Gabriels on 3 cars have shown that they give out quickly and thus must be frequently replaced. I recently discovered that KYB makes shocks that fits these cars (57-66). KYB’s are twice as expensive, but are 10 times better shock absorbers. They absolutely transform the ride and handling. I strongly recommend them. Front - # KG4507 (trim lower sleeve to 1.25" long) Rear - # KG5511 Update, April 2000. It has been my experience that 82072 Gabriel shock turns to mush pretty quickly. I took them off my Imperial after about 5K miles and one was so limp there was ZERO resistance left in it! I put KYB's on and they transformed the car. The 300 club recently gave the following info. (Note: 1957-61 300's shared the all the same front suspension components.) "Use KYB model KG 4507's in the front. KG5511 in the rear. Front shock, lower mounting tube will have to be trimmed a little to fit in its intended holder on the lower control arm. Remove one of the old shocks, measure the lower tube thru which the mounting bolt goes through, and, using a grinder, trim the KYB's tube to match. Make sure to have a bucket of water next to you, and dip the portion of the shock being ground off repeatedly in the water during grinding, to avoid damage from heat to the rubber bushing around the tube. The KYB's are 200% better than other normal, gas-charged shocks. Well worth the little extra effort in obtaining them and modifying the fronts to install." KYB has a website that can refer you to a local distributor. http://www.kyb.com The KYB shocks I mentioned also fit 1957-66 Imperials. It is possible they fit earlier and later Imperials, but one should verify with KYB first. Note: because of the modification necessary for installing the front shocks, the Imperial application is not listed in any of the KYB catalogs. Thus, be sure you have the part numbers when you go to your KYB dealer. Installation tip, from Jay Mc Kee: I just stepped in from finishing up putting four new KYB Gas-A-Just shock absorbers on our '62 Crown. Here's a tip for installing the front shocks that the gentleman at the parts counter taught me. Some Imperials owners have struggled to compress the gas-charged shock and race to get it into the shock tower before the gas charge fully extends them. Full extension happens within seconds, giving you little time to get the shock into position for mounting before it is too long to fit. It could and often does) take several attempts before you win this race with the shock. Save yourself the frustration by getting the shock into the proper position *before* you begin to extend it. "What?!?" you say. "How can you get the shock into position before extending it?" It's really simple. So simple, I would have never thought of it unless someone else told me about it! Most gas-charged shocks are shipped in their boxes in the "compressed" state. A nylon "strap" holds the shock closed. You will notice that the strap does not go through the shock's bottom mounting hole, it actually goes around it. DO NOT CUT THIS STRAP! You can use it as an installation tool! Compress the shock a little bit further and carefully remove the strap. Install the bottom hardware (dish-shaped washer and rubber doughnut) on the shock's upper mounting pin. Now compress the shock fully and reinstall the strap. The shock now stays compressed, ready for installation! Get the shock into position in the shock tower. Fasten the shock's bottom mount to the control arm. Leave the nut a little loose so the shock will pivot a little bit (this will make pin alignment in the top of the tower easier). Now get a pair or scissors, hobby knife, wire cutters or whatever you like to cut things with. You will need two hands to perform this next amazing trick. The idea is to cut the strap, and at the same time remove it before it get pinched between the mounting hardware and the top of the shock tower. Give it a try... The shock quickly and smoothly extends itself. If the top mounting pin pops through the mounting hole in the top of the tower, you are lucky. If the end of the pin is stopped inside the top of the tower, you are not as lucky, but still in real good shape! nonetheless! If the pin does not pop through the hole, you will need a screwdriver to reach in there to move the pin a little. Eventually it will find its way through the hole in the top of the tower. You're almost home... Install your top mounting hardware, then tighten the lower mounting nut to factory specs. You are done! Piece of cake, huh? =========================



Edited by jimntempe 2015-09-23 1:35 PM




(kyb v gabriel shock dimensions.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments kyb v gabriel shock dimensions.jpg (174KB - 267 downloads)
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wizard
Posted 2015-09-23 2:39 PM (#490444 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Thanks' Jim, I copied the text and pasted it in a Word document - will read it through and check the availability for cross reference shocks from Koni and Bilstein.

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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-09-23 2:47 PM (#490446 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Sven, the RCD Bilstein partnr I have on my daily Dart is 55-R092 for the rear shocks.
They are listed as Mopar A-body shocks, but that may also relate to the bushing size or maybe internal valving.
I haven't used the Bilstein's on one a my fullsizers before, but the rear of my '73 Dodge Dart, with 2 propane tanks in the trunk and 7 leafsprings per side, is pretty much at fullsize Chrysler weight imo.

Here are more Bilstein shocks listed for other models;
https://www.performanceonline.com/Rear-Shock-Absorbers-Mopar/





Edited by BigBlockMopar 2015-09-23 2:49 PM
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wizard
Posted 2015-10-21 9:17 AM (#492809 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Thanks' Herman, I have just demounted my rear shocks and found out that they are Gabriel 733697 # now replaced by 81164 - these ones fits a large number of GM Pickups, Suburbans and such.
With this info I have re-asked both Bilstein and Koni - now I Think they will find the right # easier.

Oh, and by the way, the Gabriels was not actually bicycle pumps, but not far from it either I can easily press them together with my hands.
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58coupe
Posted 2015-10-21 10:53 AM (#492816 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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BigBlockMopar, why do you have propane tanks in the trunk, is that what you are running it on?
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BigBlockMopar
Posted 2015-10-21 12:41 PM (#492823 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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Yes my daily driver runs on propane fuel.
Very popular to convert (big / v8) cars to propane since it costs about half the price of gasoline.

Personally I find propane to be a better fuel since it's already a gas when it enters the engine. Which is very nice in winter.
But I don't want to stray off topic too much
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58coupe
Posted 2015-10-22 10:49 AM (#492893 - in reply to #489614)
Subject: Re: Reinforced rear shackles anyone?



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How about opening a new thread about your Dart, I would be very interested.
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