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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | Hey All,
I have been working on my 57 Windsor for quite some time now and just recently I started having problems with the Headlights/Running Lights cutting on and off every few seconds while driving. I can hear it tripping the breaker and then the breaker resetting itself so the lights come back on. Any ideas why? I have just rewired the entire car from the starter relay back thinking that that would fix the problem. It still persists. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Jacob |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The circuit breaker will cut out if you have a short Circuit in the first place, but it might also trip on too high resistance over the light switch.
My guess is that this happens on high beam mostly? |
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Veteran
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | Unfortunately no, I drive basically on only low beam and that is when it happens. I've checked everywhere I can think of for a short in the wiring but i haven't found anything yet.
Jacob |
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Veteran
Posts: 161
Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | The short circuit doesn't seem random, it seems like it has the same interval of time between cutouts usually.
Jacob |
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Did you mount the H4 lamps in the car? |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | Dimmer switch OK? |
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Location: Connecticut | Are you using standard headlights or high intensity lights ? When the headlights go out, do your dash lights go out as well ? Also, are you sure that you are hearing the circuit breaker and not just a loose wire arcing ? Ron |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | I'm using standard lights and yes I'm sure it's the circuit breaker clicking. It clicks and the lights come back on. When the lights go out it is both headlights and dash lights. I read into the problem and think it's pointing to a worn out circuit breaker. I'll replace it today and report back with the result.
Jacob |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | No, they are the sealed beams that the car came with.
Jacob |
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Location: Connecticut | J97_Imperial - 2016-04-15 2:05 PM I read into the problem and think it's pointing to a worn out circuit breaker. Highly unlikely. The reason a circuit breaker blows is that you have a short or that you've overloaded the circuit. When you drive to car with just the parking lights on, do the dash lights still cut out and do you still hear the clicking ? I think you have an exposed wire that is touching a ground. Or there is an issue with the headlight switch. I would trace the headlight circuit. Did you rewire anything on that circuit ? Ron |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | I think my problem is that nothing is even connected to the prior circuit breaker. I never messed with the lights because they always worked. Maybe someone can confirm.
Jacob |
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Veteran
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | Here's the picture.
Jacob
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Location: Connecticut | So the clicking you were hearing wasn't from the circuit breaker, unless there is another circuit breaker involved. Unfortunately, the 57 shop manual has no wiring schematics. Ron |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | I have a wiring schematic for my exact car, I'll put the wires in their right places and see if it fixes things. The wires are not correct according to the schematic. Maybe I should share the schematic on the forms...
Jacob |
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Veteran
Posts: 161
Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | Update,
I moved my primary wires (Red/white and Black/White) back to the left side of the circuit breaker. The Lights still functioned but were not in the right positions at all. Also, I have no idea what went on the auxiliary side of the circuit breaker because it does not tell me on the schematic. Any help is appreciated.
Jacob |
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Expert
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Location: Ontario, Canada | That circuit breaker is already connected to the switch by the rivets. No wires go to the terminals of it.
Greg |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | I've now replaced the circuit breaker and that wasn't it. However, while I was fixing my bright switch (bad connections at the terminal) I took the time to trace every single wire from under the firewall back to the switch and none are nicked or exposed in any way. I then drove the car around for a healthy amount of time with the regular lights on but no interior lights and there was no cutouts whatsoever. That narrows it down to some wire inside the car. Back under the dash I go tomorrow!
Jacob |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | have you changed the switch------------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | 60 dart - 2016-04-18 3:33 AM
have you changed the switch------------------------------------------------------later
I have not. Is there even a place to find replacement switches?
Jacob |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | it shouldn't be too hard to find a good used one but you might try below -----------------------------------------------------later
http://www.atlaschrys.com/Early/Electrical/EarlyHeadlightSwitches.h... |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | So the car only trips the circuit breaker when both the interior and exterior lights are on. No shorts but I have figured it down to it is drawing too much amperage through the 20A circuit breaker after a medium period of time (A couple minutes). Any ideas as to what it would be?
Jacob |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Normally it'scaused by a voltage drop due to too small wire gauge and/or bad contacts in the circuit. If you measure the voltage directly on the headlights I think you'll find something like 8-9 volts. A headlight relay will fix this permanetly.
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Location: Connecticut | Since this problem is unique to your car, and not on other 57 Chryslers, I would diagnose where the problem is before wiring in any additional relays. Ron |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | ronbo97 - 2016-04-20 8:13 AM
Since this problem is unique to your car, and not on other 57 Chryslers, I would diagnose where the problem is before wiring in any additional relays. Ron
Well my entire firewall mounted terminal block is just covered in paint from the previous owner. Wires and all. It also looks like it has its share of surface rust/corrosion. I'm going to try to clean it all up and see if that fixes the problem before running any new relays. Could that be an issue?
Jacob |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | I mean the terminal mounted on the radiator core support. Noth the firewall. Sorry
Jacob |
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Location: Connecticut | J97_Imperial - 2016-04-20 7:41 PM Well my entire firewall mounted terminal block is just covered in paint from the previous owner. Wires and all. It also looks like it has its share of surface rust/corrosion. I'm going to try to clean it all up and see if that fixes the problem before running any new relays. Could that be an issue? Jacob Possibly. Again, if everything is set up correctly then relays are not necessary. I'm still thinking that it's a loose wire somewhere. Trace the circuit. Use a continuity tester. Ron |
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Location: Jamaica Plain, MA | I think Ron is right. Also, increasingly, terminology has become a point of confusion on this board. An auto-resetting circuit breaker is called a fusible link. A circuit breaker needs to be reset manually. Forget original service manuals about this. Language has changed. Eg: pound feet vs foot-pounds vs joules. So, I'm guessing the thing shorts out, gets hot, pops, and the the bi-metal contacts reset and it works again. I think the only fusible link on a FL car is in the headlight switch. You've got a minor short, me thinks. I would absolutely advise against re-wiring with relays and so forth. The problem needs to be repaired, not rigged. Check the wires to the dome lights. On coupes, they can short if someone bumps the bezel getting into the car. An easy way to isolate this issue is to disconnect your dome lights. That is it is a coupe. The sedan dome light wouldn't be prone to shorting. Good luck. I hate electrical problems.
Edited by JT Vincent 2016-04-22 12:15 AM
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | JT Vincent - 2016-04-21 11:13 PM
I think Ron is right. Also, increasingly, terminology has become a point of confusion on this board. An auto-resetting circuit breaker is called a fusible link. A circuit breaker needs to be reset manually. Forget original service manuals about this. Language has changed. Eg: pound feet vs foot-pounds vs joules. So, I'm guessing the thing shorts out, gets hot, pops, and the the bi-metal contacts reset and it works again. I think the only fusible link on a FL car is in the headlight switch. You've got a minor short, me thinks. I would absolutely advise against re-wiring with relays and so forth. The problem needs to be repaired, not rigged. Check the wires to the dome lights. On coupes, they can short if someone bumps the bezel getting into the car. An easy way to isolate this issue is to disconnect your dome lights. That is it is a coupe. The sedan dome light wouldn't be prone to shorting. Good luck. I hate electrical problems.
Firstly my car is a 4 door sedan. And You are correct about the breaker tripping and then coming back together to work again. Once the breaker gets hot once and resets, it is always the exact same amount of time between shorts. And remember, if i keep my interior lights off the breaker WILL NOT trip. This is what makes me positive it is a problem with interior lights (orange wires behind the dash). My dome light has never worked, nor do i think there is even a light in there. (One of the next things on my list to fix before the headliner is put in) All of my door jamb switches are frozen up in the off position. When you talk about disconnecting dome lights, do you mean from the switch in the door to the wires going to the light in the roof?
Jacob
Edited by J97_Imperial 2016-04-22 1:27 AM
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Check if the bulb in the dome light is correct type - if it's single Contact bulb it might make a short Circuit. |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | the easiest way might be to remove wires from the switch one by one to isolate the problem ----------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | wizard - 2016-04-22 1:23 AM
Check if the bulb in the dome light is correct type - if it's single Contact bulb it might make a short Circuit.
How many bulbs in the car are supposed to be single contact? I'm pretty sure every light I've seen in the instrument cluster (clock, gauges, speedo) has been single contact.
Jacob |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The domelight should have double contacts - trunk light also if mounted.
The cluster bulbs are single contacts.
The double contacts is due to that the ground (-) is switched (doors and eventually dash switch) and the plus is always present.
If a single contact bulb is mounted, there's a risk that the single contact reach both contacts in the receptacle |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | wizard - 2016-04-22 7:30 AM
The domelight should have double contacts - trunk light also if mounted.
The cluster bulbs are single contacts.
The double contacts is due to that the ground (-) is switched (doors and eventually dash switch) and the plus is always present.
If a single contact bulb is mounted, there's a risk that the single contact reach both contacts in the receptacle
I need to check the light I put into my trunk. I think I may have accidentally put a single contact in that. None of these problems started happening until after I connected my light in the trunk.
Jacob |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | If original, the trunk light should be a single contact. There will be a Mercury switch in the socket.
Greg |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | The instrument lights are powered by the Orange wires. Disconnect it at the switch and try that. The pink wires power things like dome light, stop lights, map and glovebox lights and trunk light. Disconnect all the pink ones at the switch and try that.
Your terminal block and connections will certainly need cleaning.
Greg |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | JT Vincent - 2016-04-22 12:13 AM
I think Ron is right. Also, increasingly, terminology has become a point of confusion on this board. An auto-resetting circuit breaker is called a fusible link. A circuit breaker needs to be reset manually. Forget original service manuals about this. Language has changed. Eg: pound feet vs foot-pounds vs joules. So, I'm guessing the thing shorts out, gets hot, pops, and the the bi-metal contacts reset and it works again. I think the only fusible link on a FL car is in the headlight switch. You've got a minor short, me thinks. I would absolutely advise against re-wiring with relays and so forth. The problem needs to be repaired, not rigged. Check the wires to the dome lights. On coupes, they can short if someone bumps the bezel getting into the car. An easy way to isolate this issue is to disconnect your dome lights. That is it is a coupe. The sedan dome light wouldn't be prone to shorting. Good luck. I hate electrical problems.
Circuit breakers have been and still are available today in two styles. Manual reset and auto reset. Auto reset are the only ones used in our cars. Auto reset have been used for more than 60 years, and still are today, and are legally mandated for use in headlight and windshield wiper circuits. The reason is obvious! Intermittent use of headlights and wipers in a dead short situation will likely give the driver enough visibility to pilot the car safely to the side of the road.
Chrysler started using fusible links in very late 1964 and for all 65 models. Fusible lines do exactly what the name implies! In catastrophic overload ( dead short ) situations, it simply melts and disconnects the battery. There is nothing to " reset"!! A visit to the dealership for a new part is the only "reset"!! No FL cars were originally equipped with fusible links!
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | there's an oem fuse link in my dart's heater wiring -------------------------------------------------later |
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| i had a brand x vehicle do this and it about drove me nuts!! I was driving on a dark road and the headlights went out and I stopped and popped the hood. to make a long story short it turned out to be the ground strap from the engine to firewall had lost a rivet but not come apart and I could see it sparking-replaced it and all was fine. check your grounds!!!!!
jp
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Location: Netherlands | The headlight switch cutting out is a very common occurance in cars that have old wiring or connectors.
The interior lights might just be enough to put enough current and heat in the HL-switch to cut off the power.
You mention at first you rewired a lot of things, but reading along the topic you show a pic of old wiring and mention paint on the radiator-frame wiring-block.
This makes me think there are still plenty of old/oxidized connections along the way to the headlights.
I would at the headlights. Check and clean the terminal connectors. Heck, maybe even through away those vintage sealed beam lights and upgrade to H4 in one go.
Next would be the bulkhead-connector. A lot of dirt and grime can accumulate there and cause quite a resistance.
Still, every car will benefit (and be safer) from a relay switched headlight-setup.
With a relay the current-load will be taken off the headlight switch.
Additional plus will be that the headlights will be much brighter by this.
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | BigBlockMopar - 2016-04-24 3:04 PM
The headlight switch cutting out is a very common occurance in cars that have old wiring or connectors.
The interior lights might just be enough to put enough current and heat in the HL-switch to cut off the power.
You mention at first you rewired a lot of things, but reading along the topic you show a pic of old wiring and mention paint on the radiator-frame wiring-block.
This makes me think there are still plenty of old/oxidized connections along the way to the headlights.
I would at the headlights. Check and clean the terminal connectors. Heck, maybe even through away those vintage sealed beam lights and upgrade to H4 in one go.
Next would be the bulkhead-connector. A lot of dirt and grime can accumulate there and cause quite a resistance.
Still, every car will benefit (and be safer) from a relay switched headlight-setup.
With a relay the current-load will be taken off the headlight switch.
Additional plus will be that the headlights will be much brighter by this.
Glad you just posted. I was about to add some pictures of just how bad everything on the terminal and even the ground cable is. I just haven't had a chance to clean it but it's baaaaaad! Take a look.
Jacob
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | Everything is now clean at the terminal block and also protected by a relay. Hopefully this has fixed all my lighting issues for good!
Jacob
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | The other picture
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | It will for sure give you a good driving light - the difference in voltage between battery and the headlights gives the sealed beams a bad reputation.
Now with relays, you'll have the same voltage at the headlights as in the battery - you'll appriciate that.
As earlier discussed, cleaning up all Contacts and terminals would have solved the cutout problem, but not enhanced your driving lights |
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Location: Connecticut | So did the new wiring solve the problem ? Ron |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | ronbo97 - 2016-04-26 8:31 AM
So did the new wiring solve the problem ? Ron
There was bad weather last night so I didn't drive. I'll probably find out tonight!
Jacob |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | Lights have now been confirmed fixed. Thank you all for your help
Jacob |
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Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | did you pin point it to one location----------------------------------------------------later |
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Location: Pearland, Texas, McPherson, Kansas | Yes, the terminal block was covered in paint which was causing voltage and conductivity issues.
Jacob |
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New User
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| Though this was not the issue in this case, I have seen many people pull their hair out trying to trace an electrical gremlin that is really easy to diagnose if you know how. I have been an aircraft electrician for many years, and here is a ridiculously simple way of electrical troubleshooting. Many times with our older cars the issue is a simple bad ground (i.e., high resistance in a ground circuit). Get a simple cheapo set of jumper cables-the shorter the better. Dash lights dim or flicker? Use the cables as a temporary ground strap from the engine to the firewall. Did the lights get brighter? If so, there's your problem-replace or clean the connections of the engine to firewall ground strap, or add one if it is missing completely. Engine slow to crank or hard to start? Use one half of the cables to augment the negative battery cable. Simply clamp one end to the negative terminal of the battery and clamp the other end to a good, clean, hard ground on the engine block. Does it crank faster? LIghts brighter? If so, there is a problem in the path to ground-dirt, paint overspray, corrosion, internal breakdown of the battery cable conductor, something. Most important thing to remember? ALWAYS keep the cables well clear of the fan, belts, pulleys, and other moving parts of the engine, and NEVER drive the car with this setup hooked up-the cables can pop loose and cause major drama under the hood. I have used this trick hundreds of times, and it is the easiest thing in the world to do. |
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Lights cutting off intermittently. No idea why.
