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Forward Look NON-Technical Discussions -> 1955-1961 Forward Look MoPar General Discussion | Message format |
d500neil |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil! Posts: 19146 Location: bishop, ca | Heh, heh: HEATERS were optional (because they were pricey, and PLY/Others could advertise a lower base price without them, and SOME cars were sold without heaters in them)...but 'hubcaps' (doggies) were STANDARD items because EVERYBODY expected to get a car with something installed over the wheels----at least until 1969.5..... Edited by d500neil 2010-05-10 2:35 PM | ||
Administrator |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 967 Location: Pittsburgh, PA | My unrestored '59 DeSoto has two-tone rims. Here's a pic of the spare showing the two colors (white and "trunk gray") | ||
d500neil |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil! Posts: 19146 Location: bishop, ca | Hiya, David! Yeah, this motif is just about the Corporate-Standard wheel finishment. Take a look at yours, though; doesn't it look like the gray was applied on TOP of the white??? That makes NO sense to me---white on top of gray primer; sure, but 'primer' on top of "paint" ???? | ||
1960DesotoAdventurer |
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Expert Posts: 3588 Location: Plymouth Spaceport | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-04-29 12:00 AM slimwhitman - 2010-04-26 6:44 PM This is a great thread. I hope we come to some conclusions with it. I seem to see a lot of contradictions. For the record, my original '60 Adventurer with full wheel covers has satin black wheels. I know a VERY few '60 Fireflites were built with dogdish caps. Does anyone know if all of those cars also came with satin black wheels? ************************************************ My 60 Fireflite coupe was a special order car, owned by the dealer's son. It had dog dish hubcaps on 15" wheels that were P&A black. I SO wish I still had this car. Had I only realized how crazy-weird it was ! Given our ability to decode these cars now, it would be very interesting to learn how the car left the factory and what gear it picked up in the dealer service dept. It was (and remains) the only 60 DeSoto I have ever seen with back-up light delete block-off plates. DoctorDeSoto, Any chance you have a photo of the 60 Fireflite you could post here? I'd love to see what the block off plates for the back up lights looked like! I didnt know you could order them without back up lights! Now I am curious,didnt every 1957 Plymouth leave the factory with backup lenses? If they were standard on the plymouth,a low price vehicle,why would they be an extra cost option on the DeSoto? What about the '58's? I know the moved the back up light to the lower bumper panel that year,but did they all get one,or was it an option? Edited by 1960DesotoAdventurer 2010-05-10 5:51 PM | ||
1960DesotoAdventurer |
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Expert Posts: 3588 Location: Plymouth Spaceport | d500neil - 2010-05-10 2:33 PM Heh, heh: HEATERS were optional (because they were pricey, and PLY/Others could advertise a lower base price without them, and SOME cars were sold without heaters in them)...but 'hubcaps' (doggies) were STANDARD items because EVERYBODY expected to get a car with something installed over the wheels----at least until 1969.5..... If you didnt buy a heater,how would you defrost your winshield on cold or rainy days? didnt it eventually become a standard that all cars had to have a heater? | ||
Lancer Mike |
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Location: The Mile High City | d500neil - 2010-05-10 12:29 PM Mike, you're saying that only the 58 Belvie and the Sport Suburban had standard (full-width) wheel covers on them. The other models came OEM with the dog-dishes. I am assuming the Fury had standard wheel covers too, but yes - in 1958, the Belvedere, Sport Suburban, and Fury would have come from the factory with wheel covers. A Savoy or Plaza could have either hub caps (standard) or wheel covers (optional). The exceptions are probably out there somewhere, but from what I read of the factory literature - this is what I would expect. In 1958 Dodge passenger car land, Royals and Custom Royals came from the factory with wheel covers. Coronets could have either hub caps (standard) or wheel covers (optional). | ||
1960DesotoAdventurer |
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Expert Posts: 3588 Location: Plymouth Spaceport | Doctor DeSoto - 2010-05-01 12:59 PM Thanks Ed. I was thinking the 57's were not Argent, but my brain is getting fuzzy. So, out of curiosity, did Argent prevail with DeSoto in 59-60-61 ? 20 years after dealing with cars that were intended only for parts and were largely swapped around, as far as wheels go, have left me unsure. I kept the dog dishies from my 60 when I sold it ... the buyer did not want them. I later found an extra in a wrecking yard in Omak. I would love to build a super el cheapo 57 Firedome someday in those colors of Danny's recent post. I dropped the ball and let a wasted rusty convertible in those colors get away from me in PA years ago that was bare bones. Ed, you wouldn't happen to know what happened to that car, would you ? I have never see a 61 with dog dishies, but I assume they kept using the new-for-57 hubcaps through to the end, as they were definitely used through 60. What do 1960 DeSoto dog dish hubcaps look like? | ||
d500neil |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil! Posts: 19146 Location: bishop, ca | 60DeSAdv, if you lived anywhere but in the Desert SoWest, you'd probably opt for the heater/defroster option. We've seen several cars on these here 'boards', that did/do-not have the optional heaters in them. In the "Plymouth/DeSoto Story" (-book), I'll bet that there might be a photo or two of a Doggied-up Soto. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I will dig out one of my dog dishies and take a photo. DeSoto used the same cap from 57 to 60 (and likely 61 too, ... but I have never seen an original 61 wearing them). It is unmarked, but has a distinctive shape and painted black rings. Come to thinkof it, look back in this thread at the 57 FireSweep ad showing the seafoam green sedan with body colored wheels and dog dishies ..... those are them ! The back up light block-offs were simple sheetmetal "plugs" that were spot welded in place and sealed with Au-Vee-Co (sic?) before painting. I do have plenty of photos of this car, but none are digital and I am in the Dark Ages for all this fancy-pants scanner jazz to copy them. Just as an aside, somewhere above in this thread it was mentioned that the black wheels were "satin" in finish. Likely this was P&A (parts and accessories) Black, ... a special paint for underhood components and such .... generators, brakets, inner fenders, grille blackout, etc. | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | My 60 Fireflite had no heater. Bought new in Bellingham, Washington, just a few miles from the Canadian border ! It also had clear glass, rubber floor mats, no radio, no back up lights, or wheelcovers. It did have a crossram 383 and a 3-onda-floor, 3.23 posi, 15" wheels, and 12" brakes. I suspect this was no ordinary commuter. | ||
Administrator |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 967 Location: Pittsburgh, PA | d500neil - 2010-05-10 5:43 PM Hiya, David! Yeah, this motif is just about the Corporate-Standard wheel finishment. Take a look at yours, though; doesn't it look like the gray was applied on TOP of the white??? That makes NO sense to me---white on top of gray primer; sure, but 'primer' on top of "paint" ???? Vice versa. The center and all of the rear are gray. The rim has a hastily applied white section. | ||
d500neil |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil! Posts: 19146 Location: bishop, ca | Thanks, Dave; white-over gray(primer) would certainly seem to be the logical protocol, but some cars, like Robert B's wheel-pic, on page-1 of this thread, appear to show the 'gray' being applied over the white.... Hopefully, Brent can dig-up his OEM dog-dish wheel, and can determine if the body color was applied over all-gray(primer) or whether the body color was applied over a mass-bulk-painted Corporate-white outer wheel area. So, the questions remain: 1) Was the factory provided with pre-painted (White-over-gray) wheels, by the subcontrator? 2) Was the factory provided with ANY paint, or primer, applied onto the wheels that it received from the subcontractor? 3) Was the body-color applied over the Corp-White paint, or was it applied over the gray primer? 4) Was there a special dedicated wheel-painting booth (with its own stash of wheels on-hand, or, were the wheels-to-be-painted shipped individually to that booth) ? The body-colored wheels were sent away to be mounted and balanced, before they joined up with the bare chassis assembly station, at absolutely the correct moment when the subject chassis arrived at that station. There were way too many variables, regarding the tire-type(Rayon/Nylon) and size-style, to have any pre-made-up wheels be lying around, waiting for a random chassis to arrive, at the chassis assembly station. Edited by d500neil 2010-05-11 3:53 PM | ||
1960DesotoAdventurer |
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Expert Posts: 3588 Location: Plymouth Spaceport | Jim Hoek - 2010-04-25 4:15 PM
The following on behalf of Neil.
How do 'you' prove a negative-condition or situation WoW! Women sure were beautiful back then! That lady in picture 0093 (too bad the photo cropped off her face) and the one in 0099................ to qoute the great Art Carney "VaVaVaVoom!" Edited by 1960DesotoAdventurer 2010-05-11 6:51 PM | ||
Doctor DeSoto |
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Location: Parts Unknown | d500neil - 2010-05-12 12:51 PM Hopefully, Brent can dig-up his OEM dog-dish wheel, and can determine if the body color was applied over all-gray(primer) or whether the body color was applied over a mass-bulk-painted Corporate-white outer wheel area. ************************************** I am going to be no help at all on the WHEELS. I saved the hubcaps, but the wheels are 20 years gone now ! I question whether my wheels were factory installed, or dealer installed. They were 15" and the four on the car were P&A black and looked to be well done ..... meaning as crusty and awful as they were after sitting in a holly hedge for many years, they were rusty, but not peeling to show another color underneath. I noticed this because the spare in the trunk was beige ! Go figger ! | ||
horace |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 471 Location: MN | Thanks but, until I see bettrer doc I'll stick w Ross Roy! | ||
56royaldodge |
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Account deactivated by owner's request Location: On this barrel | d500neil - 2010-05-11 1:51 PM Thanks, Dave; white-over gray(primer) would certainly seem to be the logical protocol, but some cars, like Robert B's wheel-pic, on page-1 of this thread, appear to show the 'gray' being applied over the white.... I took a closer look at mine .... like Dave says, the whole wheel was painted grey primer and then the white paint was applied (over the primer) to the outer section. | ||
Kenny J. |
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Inactive by user's request Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | Administrator - 2010-05-11 6:44 AM Vice versa. The center and all of the rear are gray. The rim has a hastily applied white section. That is exactly how the one rim I have is painted. K. | ||
d500neil |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil! Posts: 19146 Location: bishop, ca | Well, thank you, guys---that certainly makes sense; the paint was applied over the (gray) primer. | ||
Rebels-59 |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | POSTED FOR NEIL D500 (232.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 232.jpg (34KB - 226 downloads) | ||
imopar380 |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 7207 Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Neil asked me to post this, the 1960 Polara Wagon from Mr. Hobbs Vacation with painted body color rims. (652.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 652.jpg (33KB - 228 downloads) | ||
Sartana |
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Veteran Posts: 210 Location: San Diego, CA | Here is a picture of my 57 Chrysler being picked up, brand new, from the Detroit factory. The wheels are all black and looking at them today, yup, they are all black. James (Factory Door-post.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Factory Door-post.jpg (76KB - 217 downloads) | ||
Rebels-59 |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+ Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | POSTED on BEHALF of NEIL D500 (322.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 322.jpg (56KB - 224 downloads) | ||
57plymouth |
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Expert Posts: 3577 Location: Blythewood, SC | Neil, seriously, open a photobucket account FOR FREE and load the photos yourself. It is not that hard. In fact, it is easier that translating your posts into English. | ||
d500neil |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil! Posts: 19146 Location: bishop, ca | Be careful what you ask for..... Sir Clive is my filter. The wheel is from a 1956 Dodge D500, and its suspension, brakes, and wheels are being sold for only $100.00, as listed elsewhere on our website. Edited by d500neil 2010-05-26 2:56 PM | ||
56D500boy |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 9915 Location: Lower Mainland BC | Very late to the party but I offer this, from the trunk of a very minty low mileage 56 CR | ||
horace |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 471 Location: MN | Your spare is an excellent time capsule | ||
eScore |
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Regular Posts: 56 Location: Washington, PA | Here is one in a 57 that is probably original. I have the same thing in my 57 which I believe is original, but mine could of come from a 58 Desoto that was in the same collection, I will never be able to know for sure. We have a 56 in the family that was bought new as well as my 57. I plan to check it when I can. It is a plain jane coronet. Just wanted to give what info I can. (57Dodge-Trunk - Copy.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 57Dodge-Trunk - Copy.jpg (205KB - 213 downloads) | ||
eScore |
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Regular Posts: 56 Location: Washington, PA | Here is the original spare I have that could have came from my 57 or a 58 Desoto. (each where in the same collection so I can not be 100% sure. I find it very odd that the grey seems to be clearly painted over the white not the other way around. I also am putting an picture of the owners manual showing a white wheel. I realize it could be airbrushed over, but seems odd that they would go to that extent in the owners manual to show a white wheel in a black and white image. But still that doesn't mean cars from different date did not get different colored wheels. I also have a couple of old pictures of the car when it was more in its prime and probably had the original wheels on it. Of course to throw a wrench it it, it does not have the original spinner hubcaps on it. They where stolen and for a short while the car had the standard ones. I am not sure of this end short of the wheel like the spinners, or go to the edge, but if they end short like the spinners I think the car may have had white wheels originally. (D500 Lincoln Memorial copy.jpg) (D500 Parking lot copy.jpg) (IMG_20170424_180523405 copy.jpg) (IMG_20170424_180538286 copy.jpg) (IMG_20170425_134316661 copy.jpg) Attachments ---------------- D500 Lincoln Memorial copy.jpg (385KB - 209 downloads) D500 Parking lot copy.jpg (436KB - 199 downloads) IMG_20170424_180523405 copy.jpg (244KB - 191 downloads) IMG_20170424_180538286 copy.jpg (301KB - 189 downloads) IMG_20170425_134316661 copy.jpg (447KB - 195 downloads) | ||
mikes2nd |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 5006 | Painted they are! white... so they match the white walls... case closed | ||
horace |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 471 Location: MN | REREAD the wheels thread AGAIN, as a Dodge dealers son around the "garage" a lot w/ full wheel covers had white/gray wheels hubcap cars were main body color. Dealers dared to change tires from car to car, take off or add wheel covers, yes, even change seats to get the sale!! Even in the 50's technology had advanced far enough to spray bomb wheels which many of us did when buying a used car. D500 Jim showed ample pics of iin the flesh in time photos. MOVE ON!!!! | ||
eScore |
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Regular Posts: 56 Location: Washington, PA | Horace, when you say hub cap cars you mean dog dish style right? I am sure mine didnt come with body color, it was either black, or white and grey. It came with spinners originally. | ||
horace |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 471 Location: MN | The proper term is hub cap but it has been bas***dized to dish. You're lucky to have a spinner car, they were regularly stolen. A guy who worked@ the garage owned a 58 CR station wagon white w/ red fins/top w/ spinners. He played in a band @ night so they were stolen. he replaced them but again they were stolen so onto full wheel cover for him.. What is you car & color I had a Black D500 Coronet Lancer 2dr stick then an all red C/R lancer which had been all charcoa before I bought my Pheonix D500 | ||
mstrug |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 6503 Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | some on this Dodge: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parting-Out-1957-Dodge-Royal-Sedan-Hood-Onl... | ||
eScore |
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Regular Posts: 56 Location: Washington, PA | Funny you say that, my uncle was at a local garage or gas station with this car shortly after it was bought and a guy said he liked those hub caps. So apparently my uncle told him where it would be at some point and told him to help himself to them and got them covered by insurance. That is why in some of the pictures on here they where not on the car because he ran the regular ones for a while until he got new spinners. I think in all my parts I have another set and a half or two of them. Its odd because some are painted black on the inner circle and some are not. And I cant remember if all of the Knight heads are gold but I am thinking only some are. Here is a picture of the car. Here is a picture of it I took today. I really wish I had painted the wheels white now. I think it would looks so much better with out the black ring between the spinner and the white wall. Can any one tell me why sometimes this page lets me post pictures 500kb and others its 250? Edited by eScore 2017-04-27 10:36 PM (IMG_20170427_173450734_HDR copy.jpg) Attachments ---------------- IMG_20170427_173450734_HDR copy.jpg (470KB - 199 downloads) | ||
horace |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 471 Location: MN | Black center 58 stainless center 57 I always wondered about the bumper guards nice looking but worthless | ||
LD3 Greg |
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Expert Posts: 1906 Location: Ontario, Canada | mstrug - 2017-04-27 9:12 PM some on this Dodge: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Parting-Out-1957-Dodge-Royal-Sedan-Hood-Onl... Some on this one too!! Greg (image.jpg) Attachments ---------------- image.jpg (199KB - 191 downloads) | ||
eScore |
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Regular Posts: 56 Location: Washington, PA | I think the wheels in the eBay action are probably what mine had new. I messaged the guy to try to get those wheels if the are correct date codes. The red looks awesome but I am trying to keep my car 100% original, and it seems so rare that any of them came with the sadle color wheels. I am going to put an standard cover on a wheel today or tomorrow, if it is the same diameter as a spinner I think I know based on the picture of the car in DC in black and white above that my car came with white wheels just like the eBay car. | ||
Space Trukin Wagon |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 428 Location: Ohio | Original wheel and spare wheel from a 1960 Dodge (IMG_1731.JPG) (IMG_1732.JPG) Attachments ---------------- IMG_1731.JPG (44KB - 187 downloads) IMG_1732.JPG (50KB - 187 downloads) | ||
Space Trukin Wagon |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 428 Location: Ohio | Another original spare wheel painted with color by factory. This one from a 1961 Dodge (IMG_1736.JPG) Attachments ---------------- IMG_1736.JPG (44KB - 199 downloads) | ||
horace |
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Extreme Veteran Posts: 471 Location: MN | In 60 the game changed black wheels for full wheel covers & spinners but colored on hub caps. Keep in mind a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then so new & used car dealers changed wheels & tires to "get the deal done". Car dealers were aggressive & accommodating back in the day compared to present time. Case in point when we were buying a used Challenger last year getting a stripe or replacing mufflers & resonators was tiring, however those 2 dealers received a pass on the sale! | ||
mstrug |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 6503 Location: Newark, Texas (Fort Worth) | 57 dodge in an ad for Texaco: . (57dodgetexaco.jpg) (57dodgead.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 57dodgetexaco.jpg (364KB - 185 downloads) 57dodgead.jpg (331KB - 193 downloads) | ||
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