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Bolt in Headers for FL cars: Jump to page : 1 Now viewing page 1 [50 messages per page] | View previous thread :: View next thread |
Forward Look Technical Discussions -> The Exhaust Pipe - Modification & Performance | Message format |
DieselJeep |
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Regular Posts: 86 | GREAT NEWS, Everyone! | ||
60 dart |
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Expert 5K+ Posts: 8947 Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | you might want to try shorties from epay . about the only choice even IF they fit @ 135$-----------------------------------------------later | ||
longram60 |
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Veteran Posts: 255 Location: Dunnellon, FL | I use Sanderson block hugger shorties on my '60 Plymouth. | ||
DieselJeep |
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Regular Posts: 86 | No way I am paying $600 for a shorty, mild steel header. :wince: If I have to beat on it or other persuasion methods, I try the epays. But all of them despite "brand" have necked down primaries...Has anyone actually tried to bolt on one a FL car? Edited by DieselJeep 2016-11-08 8:10 AM | ||
wayfarer |
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Elite Veteran Posts: 888 Location: Peoples Republic of Oregon | Age old question...how bad do you want to solve the problem? It looks like you get to do all of the investigative work and then report back...... | ||
57chizler |
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Expert Posts: 3778 Location: NorCal | If the only reason you're looking for headers is a cracked manifold, why not look for a replacement manifold? Maybe a later/better factory manifold would work. | ||
DieselJeep |
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Regular Posts: 86 | wayfarer - 2016-11-08 11:58 AM Age old question...how bad do you want to solve the problem? It looks like you get to do all of the investigative work and then report back...... Haha. Ain't it the truth? But I am willing and love solving problems. I highly doubt the ebay ones will clear the oil stick tube, starter, motor mount, torsion bar. And for $150, I am not willing to arbitrarily buy a chinese made SST header that *MAY* fit. SOOO done pissing away money on this car for nothing but only more hope and a prayer it will work... If I can't find one that another has used, and can recommend, I will make one. And if 600 bucks in mild steel is my only option for a guaranteed fit, I can build something MUCH better, AND buy the scarebird kit, AND calipers, AND rotors, AND brake pads... And perhaps save this community some money. As far as a stock manifold, if I am spending the time to remove an exhaust manifold that has been on a motor for 60 years, I sure am not wasting the money and time to put another choke collar back on, when I can increase both power AND efficiency. And as my entire front end(fenders, hood, radiator and support) is coming off , and engine/trans out for a degrease and respray this winter, I might as well make a set of bolt in headers while I have plenty of room to work between the engine and frame. If I make one, I can make more. Making the first one is the hard part. Copying the first will take a tenth of the time, so if even one guy is willing to buy another set at a fair price for my research, time, and effort, I will make another. So as I want to share my capabilities, and contribute back to this community: What would a quality, mathmatically engineered(helmholtz principal, ect), bolt in, exhaust header be worth to individuals of this community? If I have to make one anyways, again, the second one is near cake in comparison. It's is the fabbing of the radii lengths and rotation of the bends, ect., that is that is intensely time comsuming. My design would be for a 361 in a 1958 Desoto Fireflite. Direct bolt in for this car. Other than that, your year, make, or model, I do not know. I am a MOPAR newb greenhorn yet, I admit. Will not be full length primaries, and the collector will possibly be primaries parallel, similair to a modern vette factory header, given constraints of the engine compartment. Although perhaps I will pray for a tri y, if research says that is good for a mopar B firing order, and space restraints allow. I haven't decided on T304 or ceramic coat mild steel. Will use a heavy gauge tubing in any regards. Primary size will be based on a stock/mild engine(for now). Perhaps 1 5/8", perhaps as big as 1.75, (I will be doing CFM calculations, ect.) into 2.5". And before ANYONE spouts ANYTHING negative, about me, about veering away from factory original, WAIT. If you are a factory original only FL purist, and don't like the thought of quality, bolt on headers specifically designed for a 361 (or other "B" v8) FL car, WHY are you still reading this, anyways? Make your call when I share the first pics of the completed headers sometime this winter. And please recall, my quality of engineering can be seen by a Google search of "4FB1". That Cat themed isuzu is MY doing. I even overhauled and modified the VE design Injection Pump. Most Diesel Techs and shops won't touch them. Haha I love solving problems, and helping others out, if I can. Let me know, anyone, everyone. | ||
Rodger |
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Expert Posts: 1506 Location: Colo Spgs | Hola We are reading that you want a better Exhaust Manifold and System than what you presently have. Look at any 1978 - 1972 set of Exhaust Manifolds for any size of Dodge Truck or Van with either a 440 or 400 Engine. They flow equal to the best HP Exhaust Manifold from any GTX or the like. They also will bolt to your engine --- with no "mod's" and clear every thing that you now find "in the wrong location". https://www.1aauto.com/exhaust-manifold-and-gasket-kit-dorman-674-17... The other part is --- what was the highest Power Rating of any 361 or 383 engine and how was it equipped to do this with a era 500'ish CFM 4 bbl Carb - Dual Snorkel Air Cleaner and the Exhaust System that you want to quickly replace ? Rodger & Gabby Colo Spgs Edited by Rodger 2016-11-09 12:10 AM | ||
DieselJeep |
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Regular Posts: 86 | I appreciate your effort to help. But I rarely do things easy, OR do I do what everyone else does. I am much more inclined to calculate, engineer and produce, especially when improvements and efficiency are easily obtainable(at least for me). That is why I have a Jeep CJ5, with an old school, non computer controlled, mechanically injected diesel, that gets twice the economy(@43MPG city) of a modern ECU controlled, gasoline 4 cyl Wrangler(@ 22 MPG city). And a #1 Google search result for it, too. Can't generally live with mediocre, and generally waaay overpriced options, so I create. Edited by DieselJeep 2016-11-09 10:18 AM | ||
Rodger |
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Expert Posts: 1506 Location: Colo Spgs | Hola You say that you have the 4 bbl 305 HP engine that is rated at 4600 RPM's ( Full Throttle - No Generator - No Cooling Fan Assembly and etc's ) and the max Torque is at 2800 RPM's ( which happens to be slightly higher that a legal Hwy Speed ). Just think what would happen to your performance ( MPG is part of this ) if the engine Was Never Consuming 15 plus HP - just to spin The Cooling Fan. This is what happens when you re-move the solid bolted unit and start using The Silicone Drive Unit. Rodger & Gabby COS | ||
longram60 |
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Veteran Posts: 255 Location: Dunnellon, FL | If you make some fenderwell headers, I'd be interested. | ||
DieselJeep |
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Regular Posts: 86 | Drop your race car off at my shop. I'll get more out of her. EFI/carb/turbo/SC/diesel. Doesn't matter. Edited by DieselJeep 2016-11-10 12:48 PM | ||
target |
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Member Posts: 10 | 1-5/8" primaries? The stock head exhaust port is 1-3/4inĀ². I'm looking into options for exhaust for my car, too. I don't see the use in block huggers, since they are so short, and I don't see any bigger than 1-3/4". I'm going to try B-Body HP manifolds for my car. There is the F.A.S.T. drag race series, factory appearing stock tire, and cars are running 9 and 10 second quarter miles @140mph through exhaust manifolds and skinny original size bias ply tires. Are manifolds really that much of a cork? | ||
5wndwcpe |
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Veteran Posts: 131 | target - 2016-11-12 5:15 PM 1-5/8" primaries? The stock head exhaust port is 1-3/4in². I'm looking into options for exhaust for my car, too. I don't see the use in block huggers, since they are so short, and I don't see any bigger than 1-3/4". I'm going to try B-Body HP manifolds for my car. There is the F.A.S.T. drag race series, factory appearing stock tire, and cars are running 9 and 10 second quarter miles @140mph through exhaust manifolds and skinny original size bias ply tires. Are manifolds really that much of a cork?
Some of them guys spend big bucks getting those manifolds extrude honed too, just FYI. | ||
Rodger |
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Expert Posts: 1506 Location: Colo Spgs | Hola Peter and All Ever "Senior" MoPar of the mentioned era that uses The Big Block or Raised Big Block has a "Center Dump" Exhaust Manifold on the left Side. The Exhaust Manifolds that you have written about --- will bolt to the heads ---- but will never fit the engine and the car. Rodger and Gabby COS | ||
longram60 |
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Veteran Posts: 255 Location: Dunnellon, FL | DieselJeep - 2016-11-08 5:14 PM The Sanderson headers are actually $385 in mild steel. The $600 (actually $575) is for silver ceramic coated. The primaries are 1-7/8" dia. into 3" collector. | ||
target |
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Member Posts: 10 | 5wndwcpe - 2016-11-12 5:19 AM Some of them guys spend big bucks getting those manifolds extrude honed too, just FYI. That's $675 a pair, and worth around 10HP. | ||
DieselJeep |
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Regular Posts: 86 | Awesome some people are starting a conversation about this. Edited by DieselJeep 2016-11-13 9:57 AM | ||
KcImperial |
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Expert Posts: 2490 Location: Kansas City, KS | DieselJeep - 2016-11-13 6:23 AM Hey, that's my pic! It's the stock manifold Vs. Hedman 78030 full length header on my 1967 New Yorker. They work great on a later 60's C body (even keeping the OEM starter) but the Forwardlook chassis is a complete different animal. And the car those headers are in (1967_New_Yorker.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 1967_New_Yorker.jpg (171KB - 396 downloads) | ||
target |
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Member Posts: 10 | Do you bend your own tubes? | ||
DieselJeep |
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Regular Posts: 86 | EVEN BETTER! haha That's AWESOME! Full credit to KCImperial, owner of said picture I borrowed from the interwebs!! Edited by DieselJeep 2016-11-15 10:13 AM | ||
BigBlockMopar |
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Expert Posts: 3575 Location: Netherlands | I made a full length header set for my '64 Chrysler NY once, which has pretty much the same frame and steeringbox layout as the older Chryslers. Used 2 sets headers, cut them up and rewelded most of the pieces together again. One set was a Summit header marked as 'big Chrysler', which turned out later they ment 'Motorhome'. The other set was a used header set for a B-body Mopar. My main plan was to make a header that ended up between Tbars and frame, where they should be on a fullsize Chrysler. But in the end I didn't get to use it because the car never got driven, but I also had great concerns about the driverside tubes running too close along the steeringbox. Also, space was very tight between the Tbars and frame, which pretty much ment you'd have to run solid motormounts to prevent stuff hitting each other. A better option would have been to route a couple of the tubes along the inside of the Tbars, to give the other tubes a bit more room. | ||
DieselJeep |
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Regular Posts: 86 | WHEW that was a tight fit! Nice job though, ESPECIALLY FOR THE LENGTH!!! That looks great!! Edited by DieselJeep 2016-11-15 6:38 PM | ||
Fury 58 |
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Member Posts: 13 | I'm replying to this thread, and hope people in the know can respond. I, too, want headers in my 58 Fury. It is non-stock, but the mods are sensible and easily reversible. I installed a 451 ci stroked 400 B Wedge block mated to a 62 TF trans. It has the small Nippondenso starter, so there's extra room there. I NEED headers, bad. The stock 350 log manifolds are a joke. Has anybody here dealt with a similar setup? I'd like 2.5" outlets and 1.75" primary pipes. Thanks! | ||
Fury 58 |
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Member Posts: 13 | What about Sanderson headers.? Anybody install their DD2 headers in a forward look car 58? | ||
ColoradoFiredome |
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Veteran Posts: 111 Location: Aurora, Co | DieselJeep: I am TRYING to help, contribute, and give options, and the "I know better than you with zero experience" idiocy and disrespect is EXHAUSTING. No wonder there is very little progress or creativity in this community. Anyone tries to do anything with good intent, decades of experience, and god given skill, and a thousand inexperienced, internet savvy "experts" who soil themselves about that ashtray mopar made 3 of(I probably know where one is), find an excuse to diarreah everywhere. I have a 56 Desoto Firedome with the stock 331 CU & Sanderson Block Huggers, a slightly modified CI 4 BBL Intake & a Carter 600 CFM Carb. Since 56 was the last year for Coil Springs, not T bars, they bolted on with no issues. Starter, Steering Box & Trans Support all cleared with no problems. They did not cost $575. While I appreaciate your offer to develop T-bar Headers for the rest of the community, inspite of our lack of progress or creativity, I reject your self appointed Expert Status & condescending attitude. I'm here for the information & support from this community of people with far greater experience & skill than I currently possess. Your superior tone & snotty comments offend me & are contrary to the whole point of this Forum. We can't help & provide information to each other with that kind of atmosphere. Build your headers, document it & post it here. I'm sure we will all benifit from your work & heap on you the praise you so greatly desire without your drum beating & self agrandizing. My 2 bits. Later.
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DieselJeep |
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Regular Posts: 86 | Reject all ya want. I own the #1 Google picture search result for the Isuzu 4FB1 diesel. Meaning, Google "4fb1" and that is MY engine I built for my CJ5. Because #1 google results happen to everyone, right? Ya know a BUNCH of folks with that kinda skill. LOL My snotty comments come from the disgusting greeting I got after buying a Fireflite after a 20 year hiatus. From 80% of the FL community being "more money that skill or sense" jerk-offs that pretend if you spend enough money, it MUST be "cool". Claiming absurd garbage like tapered axles and dangerous single circuit, overpriced ebay only brakes MUST be kept, 'cause "factory original". Implying that anything done for safety and serviceability is SOMEHOW "less that MY car" because they spend absurd amounts of money on overpriced crap bought from hoarders raping each other, "cause factory original". | ||
DieselJeep |
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Regular Posts: 86 | and a freebie, despite whatever, the $100 ebay Stainless Chinese block hugger headers bolt right in, after moving the power steering line. and removing the plug heat shields. Shorty plugs, new wires, welding, fabrication, and SKILL required. And that 361 sounds AMAZING uncorked, and able to BREATH. Edited by DieselJeep 2017-10-27 9:48 AM | ||
ColoradoFiredome |
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Veteran Posts: 111 Location: Aurora, Co | Well, you've been on this thread since 11/16. Have you actually done anything yet? Love to see it if you have. Don't care bout Diesels or Jeeps. I suppose that the reason there's only been 1 log in since July reflects the poisonous atmosphere you've stirred up. All the chin music about folx who are so original Stock only seems hugely misplaced. You do realize you're in the Tail Pipe Modified cars section right. Few if any Stock Only folx on these threads? So, look man. If you have something to contribute in the way of performance &/or Headers for FL cars with T Bars, Love to see it. If you only have Troll comments to contribute, maybe you should do that someplace else. | ||
ColoradoFiredome |
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Veteran Posts: 111 Location: Aurora, Co | <p>Well, you've been on this thread since 11/16. Have you actually done anything yet? Love to see it if you have. Don't care bout Diesels or Jeeps. I suppose that the reason there's only been 1 log in since July reflects the poisonous atmosphere you've stirred up. All the chin music about folx who are so original Stock only seems hugely misplaced. You do realize you're in the Tail Pipe Modified cars section right. Few if any Stock Only folx on these threads? So, look man. If you have something to contribute in the way of performance &/or Headers for FL cars with T Bars, Love to see it. If you only have Troll comments to contribute, maybe you should do that someplace else.</p> | ||
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