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Expert
Posts: 1488
  
Location: New Castle PA | OK. Many of you know about the typical issue that a lot of 1957 DeSotos (and maybe others) have -- the front brake (usually the left) drags after the car has been sitting for a while. Normally going forward, backward, forward, backward a few times clears things up. There have been many posts and possible solutions suggested.
I don't think that's my current problem, and my Firedome does sometimes do that. My issue now on my Adventurer (which has never done this before, so it's a "sudden" thing) is that the left front locks up tight after going in reverse. I can drive all day in forward with no issue, but once the car is put into reverse and braked, you can no longer move it forward. LF is locked up tight. I've had the wheel off and brakes torn apart more times than I'd like to admit, without solving the issue. I've tried tightening wheel bearings, loosening them, changing the mounting points for the shoe return springs from the web center to the outer edge (where they are NOT supposed to be) and even swapped the front shoe with the rear shoe. While up in the air, the wheel spins freely in both directions, but when the brake pedal is depressed while the wheel is rotating backwards, it locks up again and won't go forward.
Wheel cylinders are not more than 2 years old, and the brake hose is 20 years old. I know a collapsed brake hose can cause shoes to not return properly, but again, this only seems to be once the car goes into reverse. I'd think a collapsed hose would affect it in both directions.
While I'm not the greatest mechanic in the world, I can tell you that I absolutely know how to install and adjust these brakes and have done so many times, including on my 3 cars, without this issue. More puzzling is that the car never did this for years and now suddenly has this problem. I can't back out of my garage because I won't be able to drive forward to get the car in again.
Think it's a brake hose issue? Any other ideas? I'm leaning more toward something mechanical but don't see anything wrong with how I have the brakes set up. All parts and retainers are in place, shoes adjusted properly against drum, all contact points given a dab of brake lube. Return springs are very slightly stretched but seem strong enough that I don't suspect them. Thanks for any suggestions. |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | Not an answer but tiny bit of help getting you out of the garage. When backing up only use the emergency brake. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9911
 
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Ed: "Return springs are very slightly stretched but seem strong enough that I don't suspect them"
Suspect them.
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Expert
Posts: 3400
Location: Chestertown, NY ( near Lake George) | Crack the bleeders when this happens, see if the wheel turns, one at a time. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9681
Location: So. Cal | This sort of problem is usually due to the brake shoes getting coc-ked and jambed inside the drum. The usual cause for that is a missing or broken shoe retainer. Since you state that the retainers are still there, I would suspect that they no longer have enough spring force to them. Try bending them outward to create more retaining force. If they have lost some of their springyness, you can heat them up, bend them out, and re-heat treat them afterward by dousing them in oil once they are just under red-hot.
Another possibility is that the drums are unevenly worn, causing this to happen. The solution there would be to have your drums turned true again. But really, the best solution is to convert to discs.  |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9911
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
Wouldn't a non-Firesweep 57 Desoto have Total Contact/Center Plane brakes, and therefore, the only way that the shoes can get coc-ked is if the support plate pair got damaged (widened) somehow allowing the web of the shoe to twist in the support plate?
I don't know what the support plate spacing should be but it if was not consistent between front lead and rear following front shoes, there might be solution there.
Edited by 56D500boy 2023-06-15 6:21 PM
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Expert
Posts: 4043
Location: Connecticut | 56D500boy - 2023-06-15 1:45 PM . Ed: "Return springs are very slightly stretched but seem strong enough that I don't suspect them" Suspect them. :) I agree. Replace them. Also replace the brake hose. Be sure you get a name brand, like Raybestos. Easy repairs. Then bleed and dial everything in again. Now take it for a drive. Ron |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 9911
Location: Lower Mainland BC | .
One source of the 1409 970 four loop 12" total contact front shoe return springs:
Andy Bernbaum:
https://www.oldmoparts.com/parts/g_service_brakes/g-249-12f/
Raybestos Service Guide for Center Plane Brakes:
https://desoto.org/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/attachments/53/27802=35...
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Expert
Posts: 1488
Location: New Castle PA | Thanks for all the thoughts, guys. It will be a week or so until I get a chance to try anything, but will report back. |
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Veteran
Posts: 242
Location: 33844 | On a side note -- I wonder why the front return springs hook to the web of the shoes , while the rear return springs hook to the side loop !?!? The shoes are the same !! |
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Expert
Posts: 3967
Location: DFW, TX | Agree with looking into return spring tension. While you’re there, ensure the shoes have lubrication at all the touch points, so you know the aren’t binding up.
Any chance your brake linings have become contaminated with brake fluid or bearing grease? Are there any uneven spots on the shoe lining or drum? |
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Expert
Posts: 1488
Location: New Castle PA | Update as of today, June 24th. I installed new springs. There is lube at all touch points, no lining contamination, everything in place as it should be. First test drive out of the garage was a success, but car pulled to the left. That's an easy fix as I must have one side adjusted up tighter than the other. BUT, going into and out of reverse did NOT cause the lockup that it was having. I did not change out the brake hose, which was my next step, and will be if this occurs again. At least on this first attempt, all is well. I'll let the car sit a while, then try it in a few days again. I knew my original springs were very slightly stretched (I said that in the original post) but I emphasise very slightly. If that really is the problem and it's now solved, I'm amazed that the small amount of spring distortion can cause that much of a problem, I'll keep you posted as I drive a bit more, and thanks to everyone who offered suggestions. |
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weird brake problem 1957 DeSoto
