|
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
  
Location: Parts Unknown |
Uh-oh . . . Looks like the T85 I have is NOT gonna "fit" 
Shaft too short - need MoPar specific T-85 . . .
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
 
Location: bishop, ca | That's a Fart T85, you got, to work with, Mike?
Good to know.
NO-way to adapt/adjust/modify it, to fit/work????
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1742
Location: Alaska | My Hollander interchange book shows the BW part #s for the proper gears for the Mopar T-85 but you would prpbably have a hard time finding them. At the very least you would need the input shaft and the right cluster( maybe all the internal gears) to get the proper ratios. Sorry, I'm at work and don't have my book in front of me.
Rolland |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
Yea, came out of a Galaxie - No way it's gonna fit up . . . Trans bolts to the Bellhousing just fine, prob is the shaft
is about 5-6" too short - so close but yet so far away . . .
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | What is/are the WRONG P/N's for that trannie???---not at all MoPar-like?
'Point is: no apparent interchangeability between the Corporations' trannies.
Good to know, altho at your unfortunate expense...
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1060
Location: Building incorrect cars since 2000!! | d500neil - 2010-09-03 6:35 PM
What is/are the WRONG P/N's for that trannie???---not at all MoPar-like?
'Point is: no apparent interchangeability between the Corporations' trannies.
Good to know, altho at your unfortunate expense...
 |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1742
Location: Alaska | To clarify what I said earlier, the Hollander interchange book lists the internal gears for the mopar specific T-85 and they are somewhat different than the ford gears, even the gears for the early 60s 426 are called out as different numbers. I am sure that with the right input shaft and maybe cluster, it would fit. I ran this transmission in my Furys and it was a tough one, originally out of a 60 Plymouth with GC 361.
Rolland |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 8948
Location: WHEELING,WV.>>>HOME OF WWVA | if you can find the right bell you can use the fffffffffffd T85 , mopar to fffffffffffd . the bay might have one on now--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------later |
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The T85(??) 426 gears might have different P/N's but I wonder if they would interchange/fit into another model of
the MoPar T85 ?
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Just run an A-833 and be done with it all....Simple.... |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
Could do that, but my whole plan for this car for over 25 years has been exactly as it sits now
(only running )
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | but, Chaney, if 'we' did things the simple-way, it we wouldn't be driving and restoring Forwardlookers,
would we?
I would like to be able (or, to know-how) to overhaul one of the 3-speed FWDLK-and-beyond trannies, to dial it in as best as
possible, and/or, at least, to find out which of them was the sturdiest-built.
Souping-up a 3-speed, for the sake of souping-up a 3-speed, rather than dropping-in a 833, for example.
No fun in doing things the "easy way", in a hobby environment!
|
|
| |
|
FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA | that and i prefer my manual electronic over-drive...  |
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' |
Good luck with it Mike...Call me when you need a real HD Mopar straight drive...
 |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
Some people could have a movie car clone or a t.v. car clone or BOTH . . .
Others can have something a little more unique . . . .
HEY DUKE ! ! ! ! NO FAIR - YOU DELETED YOUR POST THIS WAS IN RESPONSE TOO ! ! ! ! NO FAIR ! ! ! !
Edited by B/G 61 2010-09-07 8:03 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Mike, Ain't that T-85 trans the same one that came in the '58 Fury's, with the 350 GC engine? If so, I know of one that is still in the guys car and he's having all kindsa trouble with the sliders in the synchro's shearing the pins off...I would think with that front end in the air like that, you'd want to bang/screech a few shifts... |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
I honestly don't know if thats the T-85 in the '58 or not ? I thought (big mistake a lot of the time ) the T-85 was
only used by Ma Mopar in '60 and '62 cars - '61 was Ma Mopars weak attempt at replacing the T-85 (and that is the one
famous for bending/shearing pins)
In '63 Ma Mopar used the T-10 . . . In '64 she came up with the A833 - which I agree is WAY TOUGH and would/could
handle some abuse . . . I may be a dreamer, but Ima sink or swim with the T-85 (maybe hard-headed is more like it )
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 5139
Location: cornpatch county, Southwest IOA | B/G... just use an A833 and never put it in low gear-- block the shifter so it can't go into 1st gear. Then the shift pattern will be the same. Use low rear gears to handle the 2nd gear take offs. No one will know the difference...................I am just jokeing--or am I?  ..................................MO |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1742
Location: Alaska | I don't believe that the T-85 was used in mopars until 59 0r 60. I had a 60 Plymouth with the 361 GC and the factory 3-speed column shift and I am sure it came from the factory with the T-85. You are correct Mopar did not put a 4-speed in their cars (except for the unobtainable 62 300H) until the BW t-10 in 63 but it was only available on the 383 and smaller cars. If you ordered the 426 wedge, it only came with the 727 or the T-85 3-speed. The reason was the BW T-10 could not handle the torque of the big blocks. Remember, it was originally designed to go behind a ch**y 283. That is why mopar built the 833.
Rolland
BTW, The BW T-85 does not have pin type synchros, it looks like a BW T-10 inside except for only 3 gears, non synchro on first.
Edited by 58coupe 2010-09-07 11:20 PM
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119
Location: STL, MO | I had a 64 Belv. with a warmed up poly and a 3spd. stick, I got my butt kicked a few times by brand X cars cause I couldn't grab first quickly because we were already rolling. As you know, if your shifter comes up thru the floor the 833 is the way to row. leave granma's tranny in granma's car B/G. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
Granny didn't buy cars with a T-85 - She might have bought a car like you had T-85's didn't go with the Poly . . .
 (62gran.jpg)
 (62gran1.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 62gran.jpg (111KB - 254 downloads)
62gran1.jpg (223KB - 229 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | I bet a bushel of apples that is a stroker 500 Wedge under all that 413 Ramcharger crap....
Edited by dukeboy 2010-09-08 5:55 PM
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | So, the T85 may have been first available in 59/60, and it is strong enough to handle a 426 Wedge's torque?
But it doesn't have a synchronized 1st gear.
Was the T85 upgraded between 1959 and 1963?
Can't some bright-guy (-Swede) reconfigure the T85 to synchronize its 1st gear?
The Nordic winters are long.
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119
Location: STL, MO | B/G 61 - 2010-09-08 5:13 PM
Granny didn't buy cars with a T-85 - She might have bought a car like you had T-85's didn't go with the Poly . . .
Ok you got me, valid point. But I did own the Plymouth version of your pic and wouldnt want to stand them eight blades on end at low revs locked in second with all that plenum volume, could make for a costly backfire. better have some slippery tires. Mine had a typewriter.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown | Hey, don't get me wrong - 99% of people I talk to say I'm nuts for wanting to use the T-85
I just want to use it - it's been in my mind for a long time and I'm gonna get this thing done
one way or another 
Once it breaks or I blow somethin up you all can tell me you told me so !!!
I think they are strong enough - we shall see . . .
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
Doin a little research and I am told that all T-85's were model specific . . . That means aside from the
input shaft being too short, the 'guts' are also (in my case) Furd specific . . . That doesn't make sense
to me. Not very cost effective to make 3-6 different versions of the 'same' trans . . .
Am I gettin the run-a-round or is this true ??? BTW, gots me a lead on a MoPar T-85 . . . Now I just gotta
take out a second mortage and sell my plasma for a few yrs . . .
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | You wouldn't have to take out but one mortgage for one of my A-833's....Hee,Hee... |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown | dukeboy - 2010-09-24 12:28 PM
You wouldn't have to take out but one mortgage for one of my A-833's....Hee,Hee...
Does that come with a 440, or it that xtra !!!
You gonna let it slide if I end up with an A-833 ?
|
|
| |
|
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | B/G 61 - 2010-09-24 2:00 PM
dukeboy - 2010-09-24 12:28 PM
You wouldn't have to take out but one mortgage for one of my A-833's....Hee,Hee...
Does that come with a 440, or it that xtra !!!
You gonna let it slide if I end up with an A-833 ?
Then, I'd have to have the second mortgage as well...See, I was trying to cut you's a deal here...
Edited by dukeboy 2010-09-24 6:32 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
I'm pricing pieces parts for a MoPar specific T-85 that I hunted down, but needs a re-build. My question now is,
do I have to keep the ball and trunnion set up ? I found a new rear housing bearing (for the ball and trunnion)
and it's making me wonder if that is gonna be my only option (b/t) ?
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119
Location: STL, MO | If it has the drum on the back would the "modern U-joint" thread thats on the site now adapter work for you? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown | Handygun - 2010-10-21 1:01 AM
If it has the drum on the back would the "modern U-joint" thread thats on the site now adapter work for you?
No drum on the back - I believe it's a '62 unit . . . I'm workin on getting pics. So far I'm just goin on the word
of the seller . . . |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
The T-85 showed up today - FINALLY !!! I'm sick as a dog (never gettin a flu shot again) and I havent
even uncrated it . . . Pics to follow soon (if I don't die first) . . .
Now I guess the real probs will start - I think this is right . . . ?
|
|
| |
|
FwdLk56's Third Account
Posts: 738
Location: Midwest USA |
lookin' forward to pics...
(oh, and agreed on the flu shot bit...)
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
Well, I'm not dead - I will NEVER get a flu shot again - just gettin on my feet now - here
are some bad cell phone pics of the T-85 (still in the crate to boot)
Looks good to me, but then again so did the ford T-85 (that don't fit !!!)
 (T85d.jpg)
 (T85d1.jpg)
 (T85d2.jpg)
 (T85d3.jpg)
 (T85d4jpg.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
T85d.jpg (71KB - 218 downloads)
T85d1.jpg (53KB - 228 downloads)
T85d2.jpg (56KB - 239 downloads)
T85d3.jpg (87KB - 277 downloads)
T85d4jpg.jpg (63KB - 266 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
Oh yea, the first pic above is a box of parts that had to be replaced (rebuilt) . . .
Once I'm back to 100% (or prob 85% ! ! !) I'll dig it out of the crate and crack it
open and snap some more pics . . .
|
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119
Location: STL, MO | I wonder if that is a MW trans with that casting date? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1742
Location: Alaska | The casting # T-85J identifies it as a MW trans.,also it has cast in bosses on the tailhousing for a shifter that my 60 T-85 did not have. The difference internally is the gear ratios unless the later trans. uses heat treated gears for strength. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
Yes, it is a Max Wedge transmission - the reason the '60 didn't look like this one with
the provisions for the shifter is in 1960 they were column shifted ? (thats what my brain says)
The guy I bought it from said it was fully operational as is (was) but not as new - now
it is supposed to be as new . . .
Does the "E" mean it was cast in May ?
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1742
Location: Alaska | The casting date E 14 62 was put there by Borg Warner and probably stands for May. I wouldn't be surprised that the 413 Max wedge option was not available until midway through the model year. Many years ago, I worked in a Chebby dealership and a coworker had a 64 409 Z11 with BW T-10 4 speed. He kept breaking the trans. and He went to special heat treated gears for added strength. I wonder if the MW T-85 had something similar? |
|
| |
|
Location: Parts Unknown | The 60-61 floor shift unit was actually mounted to the floor pan and not the tranny.
It caused metal fatigue in the floor pan from the constant rowing / flexing. Kits were
available after the fact that bolted up to the pre-existing case bolts that moved the
shifter to the tranny and it just stuck freely through a widened hole cut in the floor.
I have one of these in my parts pile that I took out of a retrofitted 58 Plaza. It had
been my plan to put it in my 60 DeSoto if the reweld job I did on the floor around the
shifter failed again, but that never happened.
|
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 3
| The tailhousing is for sure a MW part, but the main case is not. Here is an original MW T85. Does anyone have a book listing all of the BW codes?
 (T85transmission3.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
T85transmission3.jpg (30KB - 254 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
What year trans is that ? '63 ?
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1742
Location: Alaska | The only book I have is an older Hollander interchange book through 1966 that calls out BW part #s for each shaft, gear, or cluster and also the main case and tailhousing. What it doesn't tell you are the differences such as number of teeth on each gear or cluster. The part #s starting with T-85J are specific to the max wedge trans. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2612
Location: Parts Unknown |
So . . . Does anyone know what the T85-D stands for ?
(I hope not "dummy")
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1742
Location: Alaska | In my interchange book Borg Warner apparently used T-85B,C,D,J etc to designate each series but these are not complete part#s. For example; the T-85 used in the 60 Dodge and Plymouth behind the 361 and 383 has some of the following part #s.
T85D-2D mainshaft
T85D-16C main drive gear
T85C-8B cluster gear
2124271 case
T85B-3 countershaft
Hope this makes things clear as mud! |
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 3
| B/G 61 - 2012-01-26 7:39 AM
What year trans is that ? '63 ?
Correct, it is a late '62 dated T85. The one for my '63 Savoy is roughly the same date code as the blue one pictured (was for sale on E-bay last year, selling price of $1,951.00!). |
|
| |
|
New User
Posts: 3
| Interestingly enough, I had this pic in my MW folder and realized it is the same as the one you bought. It was sold at the Spring Fling show in California a couple of years ago (sold for $500.!) It has the same main case. Now I am really curious what the deal is here...
Edited by Maxsavoy 2012-01-30 3:27 PM
 (T85$500.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
T85$500.jpg (107KB - 438 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Ok; try this one out: can the MW T85's be adapted to accept a column shift linkage?
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1742
Location: Alaska | The only external difference that I know of between theT-85 used in the 60 Dodge and Plymouth (with factory column shift) and the MW T-85 was the talihousing with provision for a floor shift (also the e-brake) so it should work fine with factory column shift. I went the opposite way, when I pulled the engine and trans. from my 60 Plymouth and put them in my 57 Fury I bought a Hurst floor shift setup.
Edited by 58coupe 2012-03-15 5:35 PM
|
|
| |
|
Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I've got records on the 60-61 T85 gear ratios, but I wonder what the ratios are for the MW T85's?
|
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 5
| Sorry to raise the dead here, but does anyone in this T-85 thread have a T-85J (Max Wedge) tail housing that they are looking to sell or trade. I'm working on putting a T-85 into my '62 300. I already have a '60 T-85 in a parts car, but would like to have the floor shifter attached to the tail instead of a conversion kit bracket. Let me know. I have greenbacks or parts to trade. Thanks. |
|
| |
Borg-Warner T-85
