Posted 2010-11-11 4:02 PM (#249179 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
Duke's right. I started out , designing with Jon (I told what I wanted, "performance wise) and He told me what I needed.
That was "Plan A" and we could have done it (Installed for around 4 grand), and probably still done around 450HP & 500 FT/lbs or torque.
As this is probably the last engine I will need, I decided to "Kick it up a notch" not necessairly power wise.
As I drive the car every day, and owe to the fact of the 272 gears, factory AC and a lotta "street driving"
as well as driving in parades 3 to 5 mph and a lotta stops; We decided to go with "Plan B".
From everything that I have read, (and a lot), The aluminum heads have a much lesser tendency to detonate,
given a set CR, cam spec's etc etc.
I've read a ton of info on the BK pistons, You can set them up for a tigher fit than conventional pistons as the
thermal expansions is less than a conventional piston. They should be very quiet, and as long as we watch
the top ring gap , and we don't invite detonation by too agressive timing or bad curve, they should last a
long time. As the top of the piston stays hotter, this results in better combustion
(some of the charge is not wasted heating the piston top.) Many other advantages but there are many sites
(Including Mopar sites) where you can read about this.)
I decided to go "Upscale" with the ignition---again because of the amount of super low speed driving I do, soooo
we are going with MSD.
We decided since we were spending the money on the heads, etc, we might as well "Exaust the engine Right",
so we will be adding some "Non Intrusive" headers, I still want the engine to look "Reasonable stock", not like
I have a "Killer Motor" in there.
We also decided to replace the intake manifold, not positive the old one would fit without some "Kludeging" and
that manifold was made to run the dual 4 barrels simultaneously, had heat crossover (Which I did block) and
I do run the carbs sequentially now, but i'm sure the new intake manifold which is set up for dual 4's
should do a lot better, don't you?
We will send out the AC compressor to be resealed, as long as it is out of the car anyway.
So This is where we are at now, and needless to say, it will cost more than "Plan A" but
I think it will be worth it? How bout you?
Again thanks for all the posts here, and I hope what we are doing is something that fits your post
Duke----at least we can compare modified stock heads to the aluminum ones.
Posted 2010-11-11 5:02 PM (#249188 - in reply to #249087) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 3782 Location: NorCal
RacerRick - 2010-11-10 7:53 PM
And hypereutectic pistons are the biggest sham in the performance market - a cheaper material than straight cast pistons, that come out of the mold much closer to final dimentions so less machine work is needed, with next to zero ductility. Give them a fancy heat treat and tell everyone they are the greatest thing going. In my opinion, they have to place in a performance motor.
Nobody is claiming they're "the greatest thing going", everything has it's proper place.
Did you read the OP? He's not interested in building a world-beating motor, just a nice street loper. Calling anything "junk" without taking into consideration it's end use isn't serving any good purpose.
Posted 2010-11-12 7:34 AM (#249259 - in reply to #249188) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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IMO, the whole purpose of the Eddy performer heads is so there's an out of the box head that flows as good or better than the best iron head fully race ported and larger valves installed...
This is for ease of buying/building heads and making good power...Of course, there's always someone like myself and others that will always try to do the impossible and make that 750 HP with iron heads no matter how mnay say it can't be done...
For the $700.00 I spent on the iron heads that were already worked, I couldn't go wrong...However, I use to think things like Turbo's, Strokers, Aluminum heads, etc. was considered "race car" stuff...Today however, these things are becoming more and more cost effective to purchase by the typical street guy....
Please post the numbers if you have 'em Gary, As I'd be curious to know what your build makes power wise..I may just be in the market to build a replica of your motor for my own car....
Posted 2010-11-12 9:09 AM (#249264 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
The engine block should be back from the machine shop today (Friday), Duke
Here's a few detail of what we did to it.
(1) Bore .030 over an hone block with plate.
(2) Install cam bearings.
(3) Turn the crankshaft (The 77 cast iron one).
(4) Heat treat crankshaft.
(5) Hang and align pistons.
(6) Balance rotating assembly.
(7) Re-size Rod ends
(8) Deck block (Sorry I don't know how much).
(9) Line Hone Block.
(Course there will be more as the engine goes together.
Here's some of the parts:
(1) 77 440 Truck Block
(2) Edelbrock Performer RPM Aluminum Heads (Complete with Valves, springs, etc) 2.14 intake, 1.81 exaust (60929).
(3) Edelbrock Dual Quad Progressive Intake Manifold.
(4) Cloyes True Roller Timing Set.
(5) K.B. Hyper Piston Set.
(6) ARP Rod Bolt Set.
(7) Bearings, (Rod, Main, Cam etc).
(8) Special Grind Cam with 112 center , not sure about final duration or lift yet, but we went with 112 for "Good low end".
(9) High Volume Oil Pump.
(10) We will be running the Edelbrock 1405 & 1406 Carbs from the 400 I have now.
(11) MSD Ignition
(12) Hi Torque starter from the 400 (IDI)
(13) Headers (Not sure of final design yet) Jon check for clearances yesterday, for the headers.
(14) 7 blade Mopar fan with clutch.
(15) We will use the (almost new) 3 core radiator in the car now (Copper).
More Details as they become available.
Non Engine items.
I will remove the clock (I will keep it) but we will install a tach where the clock is now (I found a "Nifty" one that pretty well matches the other gauges).
I will replace the dash light bulbs with LED's probably white, cept for the turn signal indicators (Probably use green there). High beam indicator will be a red LED.
(I did this to my 64 many years ago, cept I used blue, with yellow led's for turn signals (Maybe 10 years ago and I have never had an led burn out).
Anyway, that's it for now. We will invite ya all to the Dyno shop (Courtesy my Hi-def video camera and Utube) when The motor is ready to run, the first time!!!!!!
Posted 2010-11-15 1:04 PM (#249618 - in reply to #249188) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 23
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
57chizler - 2010-11-11 5:02 PM
Nobody is claiming they're "the greatest thing going", everything has it's proper place.
Did you read the OP? He's not interested in building a world-beating motor, just a nice street loper. Calling anything "junk" without taking into consideration it's end use isn't serving any good purpose.
I did read the original poster. Did you even read my post? You seem to have missed where I explained why I believe hypereutectic pistons have no place in a performance motor. It seems with aluminum heads, high compression, MSD ignition, etc - the OP is building a performance motor. The proper place for these pistons are stock applications where detonation can be easily dispelled (computer controlled ignition via a knock sensor) - where they work fine. This is not one of those applications.
The failure mode for these pistons is they shatter because they have zero ductility. Now the original poster was saying to put them into a relatively high compression motor with short cam timing in a heavy car with highway gears. This is a recipe for detonation - which is exactly what hypereutectic pistons have no tolerance for. All it would take is one bad tank of gas, or one bad tuning day and he is replacing the motor. For an extra few hundred dollars for a decent set of forged pistons, he has much stronger shortblock that shrug off detonation, and if we wants to step it up in the future powerwise, the bottom end will not be a limiting factor.
I already made my arguments on why I feel these pistons are inferior to standard cast piston, and why they OEM's like them so much (cost). You don't even seem to have an argument...
Posted 2010-11-15 1:18 PM (#249620 - in reply to #249264) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 23
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
1959Dodge - 2010-11-12 9:09 AM
The engine block should be back from the machine shop today (Friday), Duke
Here's a few detail of what we did to it.
(4) Heat treat crankshaft.
(8) Deck block (Sorry I don't know how much).
(9) Line Hone Block.
You can skip the head treat on the crank (its probably meloniting) at this power level. Plus the heat treat can cost almost as much as just picking a factory forged crank that needs turning. Also be aware that a lot of heat treats warp the crankshaft and it should be at least checked for straightless after the head treat. If they have to straighten the crank, its always fun to watch them do it.
When you get the block decked - make sure they square deck the block which equalizes the deck height across the block, and set it to blueprint height. Mopar blocks are usually taller than blueprint by quite a bit and always need decking for a well designed quench motor.
You only need to line hone the block if you are studding the mains, or if there has been cap movement previously due to load (heavy detonation, or high RPM). The studs can locate the caps slightly differently and might need a touch up.
Are you getting a custom grind cam from one of the big cam grinders or a local guy. Be aware that most smaller shops use chevy lobes on their masters since they can be used in any engine.
Posted 2010-11-15 4:33 PM (#249637 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
Thanks for the inputs, Rick. I myself, am not an engine builder, (that's what I got Jon for), but I do wanna be involved in this one, as I haven't the "Foggiest Notion" what cam, pistons (except I didn't want forged) are in my
64 Dodge's 413 that I had built. It does run great on 89 @34 degrees advance (not the slightest hint of pinging) and one time I "screwed up" and put 87 in it (as I'm used to filling the 59). It had maybe half a tank of 89 in it and still it did not ping. Soooo even thou I wasn't involved in the rebuild of that one, (and except for a cam going flat), it has been trouble free, uses no oil and is nice and quiet. I , as I mentioned, had TRW forged racing pistons in the 64's original 426, and I always hated the sound they made(even when warmed up). A friend of mine is building a
"Monster Engine" for street use, the builder put in forged pistons, a Mack truck sounded "quiet" by comparison, so my friend had to spend more money getting rid of the forged pistons, as again the car will be a "Nasty Street Machine" and seen at car shows, so "at least to us", part of "Our definition" of quality is not only an engine that performs well, but is relatively quiet too---(Just our preferences).
I spent days (literally) reading every article I could find on the Hyper pistons and most are very positive.
Yes the top ring has to be gapped right, and yes, you want to avoid detonation---I always had to do that with the
original 426 as even with 9.3 CR (or so the builder said), it didn't like 91 octane gas, but I know enough to back off
the pedal if I heard pinging---Apparently the guy in the Ferd, did not????
Anyway, Jon has built about 200 engines, and half of those have the Hyper pistons, and none have been a problem.
Jon knows a cam grinder, so Jon drew up the specs on the cam, and we will see how She runs.
Again thanks for the inputs, We just have different goals for our engines, Yours sounds like a great and econ build!
Posted 2010-11-15 6:42 PM (#249648 - in reply to #249618) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 3782 Location: NorCal
RacerRick - 2010-11-15 10:04 AM
I did read the original poster. Did you even read my post? You seem to have missed where I explained why I believe hypereutectic pistons have no place in a performance motor. It seems with aluminum heads, high compression, MSD ignition, etc - the OP is building a performance motor. The proper place for these pistons are stock applications where detonation can be easily dispelled (computer controlled ignition via a knock sensor) - where they work fine. This is not one of those applications.
Your opinion, not shared by all. The intended motor is pretty tame by comparison and you seem to think that the combo is doomed to suffer from detonation...not necessarily so. High mechanical compression ratios with aluminum heads aren't the same as high mechanical ratios with iron heads but, of course, you know that....it's all about quench and heat dissipation.
I already made my arguments on why I feel these pistons are inferior to standard cast piston, and why they OEM's like them so much (cost). You don't even seem to have an argument...
My argument is simple, you have set yourself as the all-knowing guru by calling a popular product "junk", your sole argument being a failure is possible "IF" a certain set of circumstances occur....kinda like saying a light bulb will break "IF" you drop it. Ever seen a high-buck custom forged piston with a hole burned in the top or sagged ring lands "WHEN" things go awry?
It's up to the engine builder to make sure the parts in the build are compatible with the intended use.
Posted 2010-11-15 9:50 PM (#249676 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 36 Location: O.C. CALIFORNIA
57chizler. I like your thought process. I used to build the bottom end on a funny car team a couple years ago. I know how to make a car run under 5 seconds in the quarter and not blow up. I also know how to make an engine tow trailers for 1 million miles...and I know the difference between the two. Never say never, and never say always.
Posted 2010-11-15 11:55 PM (#249690 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 23
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
ok, so you still have not made one valid argument based in facts about what I have said, and instead am attacking me personally. Your own argument can just as easily be used against you - detonation is pretty easy to get, especially when you are wanting to run 87 octane fuel as the OP said.
Just look of any one of a number of engineering papers, or look at a casting materials sheet where A390 (KB's preferred alloy) is common.
Want to have a bit of a chuckle? Do you know what the alloy 390 was developed for? The Vega's aluminum engine block.
Posted 2010-11-16 12:24 AM (#249691 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 36 Location: O.C. CALIFORNIA
Ok,valid argument... I choose to base my opinion on real life experience. In that, I've used this combo in many similar situations to this. several of wich, have already gone over 200,000mi. Don't forget, the hemi head was designed by a couple different european car companies for their three and four cylinders,for fuel economy. does that make the hemi head a bad design? chuckle,chuckle. Don't worry, we dont send cars out the door that ping...even on "bad"gas. I've seen oil pans full of forged pistons from pinging. That is like basing your bearing choice on how long they last with no oil in the engine, or will my pistons hold up with a gas tank full of sugar, or if gravity ceases to exist. Detonation is not all that easy to achieve,If you tune it right. I dont want any engine I build pinging, i know your with me on that.
Posted 2010-11-17 5:10 PM (#249930 - in reply to #249691) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 3782 Location: NorCal
JMCPERFORMANCE - 2010-11-15 9:24 PM
Ok,valid argument... I choose to base my opinion on real life experience.
So do I but our opponent wants to argue Physics 101 theory. Like so many other products that are labled "junk" by naysayers, the simple fact that the highways aren't littered with hypereutectic pieces doesn't matter to them, they pick a couple of isolated instancesand run with it.
Posted 2010-11-17 6:28 PM (#249938 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
Things are "Moving along", parts coming in, etc. Next thing in line is the exaust system. I've been doing a lotta "Boning up" on factory manifolds, shortie headers and long headers.
Keeping in mind the goal of a "Street driver with attitude" (IE instant gratification when ya mash the pedal)
what has been your experiences with this "Exausting Situation".
Do you have a fav manufacturer, what headers would be easiest to install and still do the job?
(Obviously one can not look up "recommended headers for a 59 Dodge with a 440 in it".
Posted 2010-11-17 7:42 PM (#249946 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
Boy Do they WORK!!!! What rear end ratio you running in that?
Impressive to say the Least.
I read where shortie headers suppossedly not great for low RPM, but sooooo much for that "Theory"
Posted 2010-11-18 5:13 AM (#249987 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 3575 Location: Netherlands
Well, I must admit the 500cubic inches and a set of longram intakes under the hood might help a bit aswell here...
The longrams aren't really designed for high rpm operation so the shortie headers work ok for me I guess. Next to that the 2.5" dual exhaust system has conventional 'pushed in' bends, which means the pipes are only about 2" in the bends. There's still plenty of room for improvement on my complete setup and I'm sure the car will smoke the tires even better/longer through the gears if I were to address these 'bottlenecks'.
The gears in de the rear are stock 3.23:1 with a suregrip unit. With enough cubic inches you don't need more gear to get going.
Torque is what you want in a streetmotor, not HP.
Posted 2010-11-18 7:00 AM (#249991 - in reply to #249987) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Shortie headers on a basic 450-500 HP 440....Yeah, they seem to work pretty good..This was with a 3.23 Sure Grip and a 727 torquelfilte.
like I said before, you won't be disappointed with the 440...Now if we's messin' with a poly? well, you might have some regrets about spending money to gain HP, but with the 440, you could simply swap the cam,intake,heads and see 450 HP EASY...
Posted 2010-11-18 9:55 AM (#250016 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
That car runs great, Dukeboy, thanks for the "Inspiration"
I am leaning towards the TTI long ceramic coated headers.
They are Mopar guys and they are in the next city East of me
so If we run into problems, they are close by.
I doubt we will with Jon working on the car , so we will
take pictures of the assembled engine to make sure we
wont have starter clearance problems , or other nasty "Surprises"
The headers are expensive, but I guess no "cents" in "cuttin' corners" Here
Posted 2010-11-18 9:38 PM (#250087 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Gary, I think you'll find the long tube headers WILL NOT FIT your cars chassis....This is why we all are running the shorties...I made a set of long tube headers for Christine, but they weren't practical when it came time to install in the car. The T-Bars are in the way big time....There are currently NO MANUFACTURERS making long tube headers for these cars with a big Block Chrysler...
Posted 2010-11-18 10:13 PM (#250092 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
Thanks for that Dukeboy, We will either take a lotta pictures of the car as the engine and exaust sits in it now, or since the Company, TTI is only about 10 miles away from Yorba Linda, (Corona), I might drive the car over there, one suspects if they want the sale, they might find a way, if they do, I will certainly pass on the info to you.
I'm surprised they are able to get them in cars like my 64 as well as some of the "B Bodies" as those have tortion bars too.
Well if they don't fit, that will save me some money!!!!
Posted 2010-11-19 5:32 AM (#250120 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 3575 Location: Netherlands
On all the 'Junior'-Mopars (A-B-E bodies ) the exhaust exits 'inside' the torsion-bars. On fullsize and earlier Mopars, the exhaust needs to exit 'outside' the T-bars, between the frame-rails.
That's the biggest problem when it comes to headers.
I'm sure TTI would like to make/sell you a pair of headers, as long as you pay for it, preferably through the nose!
Posted 2010-11-19 9:13 PM (#250229 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
We will pass on that for $1500, that's for sure.
Any of you guys have opinions of hydraulic Roller rockers
using a non roller cam. I finds all kind of conflicting data,
seems like a little extra insurance to make sure a cam doesn't
go flat, but I have read some horror stories about them too,
where they lost their retainers and turned sideways and ate
up a cam.
Just Curious
Posted 2010-11-20 5:54 AM (#250251 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 3575 Location: Netherlands
There are adjustable, and non-adjustable rockers. The non-adjustables always go on 'hydraulic' cams. The adjustable rockers can go on both 'solid/mechanical' and hydraulic cams.
Then there's the lifters, which are either flattappet or with a roller-wheel.
Flattappet lifters come in the hydraulic and solid-variety. Roller lifters also come as hydraulic and solids.
You cannot put roller lifters on a 'normal' hydraulic or solid, flatttappet designed cam, as the lobes on these cams have a slight taper to aid in flattappet lifter rotation. This taper would load a roller-lifter wheel more on one side than the other which would shorten it's life considerably.
You need an actual 'roller' cam before you can use roller-lifters.
Posted 2010-11-20 8:00 AM (#250253 - in reply to #250251) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Roller cams offer huge power gains over their flat tappet counterparts, but at the expense of the valve train, and your wallet...Solid Roller being the most agressive. Most are wearing out the "Axle" for the roller wheel under extreme pressure of the valve springs that are used on these type cams...Hydraulic roller cams are better, but limit the rpm of the engine due to the heavy nature of the lifter...Valve spring pressures when running a roller cam are Very high..
Posted 2010-11-20 8:54 AM (#250259 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
Sorry guys, I really messed that question up>
What I meant was "Roller Hydraulic Lifters"
You can run those with about any cam (Or some say).
Well you answered "that one" about using, "any cam"
Thanks, Big Block!!
The lifters do have to have guides to keep them from
turning sideways .
(I hope I did a better job with my question, this time)¿
Posted 2010-12-17 10:38 PM (#253663 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
She did great, Jon, exceeded your goal and on 89 gas, no less.
Goal was 500 Clb-ft Torque, we hit 526.4 @ 3600 RPM
and that was one of my goals, --low rpm torque ,
even at the lowest rpm,(the dyno test printed out) (3300 rpm) torque was 492.1
Horsepower goal was 450HP, Jon "overshot" that number too.
Max HP was hit at 5400 RPM,----476HP
We only ran the engine to 5600 RPM but it was still making 474 HP there.
Even at 3300 RPM (again low level of dyno test) we were doing 309HP
and she rose pretty kwik from there.
So the car should be a great "Street Machine" and a "Blast" to Drive.
Thanks!! Jon
Gary
PS
I shot some of it with my video camera and I will hafta edit it
but if someone is interested or would like to hear some
"Exotic" sounds, I can post the video on Utube.
It's always fun to see them "Come to Life"---Ya Thinks?
Posted 2010-12-18 1:23 AM (#253678 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119 Location: STL, MO
Gary I am sure you should be happy with that engine and it should push your car down the road in a rush, If the drop at 5500 is nosing over and not a dip it sounds like the cam is well suited to your cars wt., heads, intake and gearing. Good job to the both of you on sorting out the parts to build a nice pumpgas low rpm street motor.
Posted 2010-12-18 12:08 PM (#253710 - in reply to #253678) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Told ya'll dem 440's make some good power even on 89 Pump gas...you can't beat those numbers...There's a reason those engines were king-o-the street back in the day, and why they are as "Common" as they are today....
Posted 2010-12-19 12:55 PM (#253824 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
OK , Here is the Dyno Run on the 440 Engine
Test was done on 89 Octane.
Ignor the Sony monitor display and look at the printouts
for the engine HP and Torque.
After the car is all back together we will take you guys for a
ride in it. AC has been rebuilt, Will have new exaust, New MSD
new torque converter New gauges (tach added where clock was)
No worries, all the original gauges are there and still hooked up!!
Enjoys the "Sweet Sounds"
Posted 2010-12-20 6:16 PM (#253970 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
OK today was header day. They fit right in EXCEPT, for the IDI starter, (which I suspected)--I had to have the old exaust modified and still had to remove a plate from the starter to get the IDI starter in. Fortunately on Headman's site is a suggestion ( A strong one in fact) to use "151 - Must use TCI-type mini starter" which turns out to be a
McLeod #810158 starter. Fortunately, McLeod is only a mile or two from Jon's (JMC Performance) shop. They brought the starter over and it fit perfectly. John says the headers will not have to be removed, should the starter ever require replacement alto the exaust pipe to the header might.
Things are moving along, I can't wait to drive it------Thanks for the inspiration Dukeboy!!!!!!
For all you purist out there that think the car may be worth less, now that it has a 440 in it????
Maybe????? But guess who gives a Rat's @ss-----nope not me!!!!
Posted 2010-12-20 6:57 PM (#253979 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
Should be soon, next week Jon is taking the car to an exaust shop where it will get all new exaust, maybe Jon will "Chime in" with the details as I can't even recalls the name of the freakin mufflers He gonna use--Thinks
"Turbo-----something or other.
Should have car back last week of December.
No worries, we will have our video camera ready!!!!
The new black top looks great on the car and I had the AC Compressor rebuilt and a new clutch for it so everything will be working on the car.
Posted 2010-12-24 10:03 AM (#254389 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
Here's a few of the "Progress" pictures. Jon redid the "Mickey Mouse Job" I did on the fuel lines.
He put in all new progressive linkage for the carbs as well as for the tranny kickdown
(Again doing away with my "Designed in Disneyland" linkage.
The AC compressor was totally rebuilt and a new clutch installed.
We Installed a Chrome Alternator and bracket.
A new Fan with thermotatically controlled clutch has been installed, (The Horrie Version).
The Tach was installed where the clock was, in the AC vents are a temp guage and a voltmeter.
Between them is a clock. All are prosport gauges and either white lighting or red lighting
can be selected as can the rest of the dash, including Speedo (White--well actually a lite green--stock)
or Red.
The steering wheel has been "rebuilt" then painted
That's it for now!
Gary
(440 Engine Rockers Detailed.jpg)
(440 Engine Right side.JPG)
(New 440 Engine in 59 Dodge.jpg)
(Refinished Steering Wheel for 59 Dodge modified.jpg)
Posted 2010-12-25 2:18 PM (#254521 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 449 Location: jersey
Do you have and under car shots of the headers? Or pics of where they are in relation to the steering/suspension?
My suburban is on a dodge chassis, so i'm thinking that these headers should fit the same on my car as they do yours.
Posted 2010-12-25 3:02 PM (#254523 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Expert
Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
I will take pictures this week, (Dec 27-31). The car will be at the exaust shop and soon as the new exaust is installed, I will take a lot
of detailed pictures of headers, etc. The headers cleared everything, power steering linkage, Torsions bars, etc etc, The only thing
that had to be changed was the starter (which Headman warns you about)---even thou I had a "Mini Starter" (IDI) in car, the headers
would not clear it, the new starter clears the headers by a lot, so heat soaking the starter should not be problem.
Have a Merry Christmas!
Posted 2010-12-25 3:06 PM (#254524 - in reply to #254523) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203 Location: Big pimpin'
I take it your running the LATER model ALUMINUM 727 trans "59Dodge"? I don't know and haven't tried the Mini starter on an old CAST IRON trans' bellhousing to see if it will fit or not...This Mini starter just might not fit the early Torqueflite..I'd hate to see someone buy one, only to find out it won't fit...
Posted 2010-12-25 3:25 PM (#254526 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Expert
Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
As usual, You are correct, Dukeboy. The Tranny is a 1962 727 aluminum Torqueflite. The seller had put it in ,so He could run the 400 engine.
1962 was the first year for the aluminum TQFlte, course it is not correct for the car (Please try to keep that info outta Bishop LOL).
The 1962 tranny was a one year only---it still had the parking brake drum at the rear, which at least for me was a real PITA. I had it rebuilt , etc etc etc, but still I never knew where the car would be after I parked it-----soooo------ since I already had a later rear end
in the car, 1969 Road Runner, 8 & 3/4, I bought the cables needed to hook up the rear drums, and car shop hooked it all up.
The 62 tranny has been rebuilt and a shift kit added and shifts very positively-----as I usually used the pushbuttons--cause the tranny shifted at far lower rpm's than what that old 400 liked!
When you push the 2 button, it goes into 2nd gear straightaway.
Jon has since built adjustable kickdown linkage----soooo--maybe the push buttons will get a "Break"
I can't wait for next week!!!!!
I have a question for You, Dukeboy, being as I'm running a 276 Rear Axle (Limited slip) would this put a tremendous strain on that rear end , or U-joints or????? If I "NAILED IT" from a standing start? Course I wont do that all the time, but I'm curious to know if that engine has the "Balls" to kick the tires loose---even running a 276 Rear End??? Thanks!!!!!!
Posted 2010-12-25 4:29 PM (#254541 - in reply to #254526) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203 Location: Big pimpin'
1959Dodge - 2010-12-25 3:25 PM
I have a question for You, Dukeboy, being as I'm running a 276 Rear Axle (Limited slip) would this put a tremendous strain on that rear end , or U-joints or????? If I "NAILED IT" from a standing start? Course I wont do that all the time, but I'm curious to know if that engine has the "Balls" to kick the tires loose---even running a 276 Rear End??? Thanks!!!!!!
Merry Christmas Dukeboy!!!
Gary
Well, I wouldn't look for that thing to be knockin' down any super quick elasped times or anything, but I would think with over 550 Ft. Lbs. of torque, you should be able to get up and get moving..Whether or not it blows the tires off or not is another story..ESPECIALLY, if you are running a Sure Grip unit...VERY hard on a stock Torque converter, with 2.76 Rear gear....It might, then again, it might not...I didn't hear mention of a stall converter and 2.76 gear ain't the best for doing big 'ol smokey burnouts...BTW: You REALLY need to have a kickdown linkage on that tranny before you unleash that 440...You WILL burn it up if not...
Posted 2010-12-25 5:25 PM (#254552 - in reply to #253970) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Expert
Posts: 3575 Location: Netherlands
1959Dodge - 2010-12-20 6:16 PM
For all you purist out there that think the car may be worth less, now that it has a 440 in it????
Maybe????? But guess who gives a Rat's @ss-----nope not me!!!!
Gary
Sorry to hear your car is 'worthless' now Gary, but you can always push it on a boat and ship it to me if you like...!
Nice work on the engine.
Posted 2010-12-27 9:00 AM (#254697 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Expert
Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
Question for Sermey, or maybe Kent has this trim piece????
I had a new top put on the 59. If you look closely (See the little arrow), you will see
there is a little piece of metal trim that is missing for the SS Trim---It has been missing
since I bought the car 6 years ago.
I'm wondering if you could do one of your drawings on that trim piece, Sermey or do
any of you other guys know where I can get that piece or any suggestions on how to
have one made up?
I have thought about making a fabric trim strip that would snap on and cover that up too,
possibly even building in a "Stop Light" in the trim?????
The car should be in the exaust shop today (Monday, Dec 27). I will try to get over there
and takes pictures of exaust , headers, etc etc.
Posted 2010-12-27 1:31 PM (#254708 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119 Location: STL, MO
I wouldn't be too concerned with the 8 3/4 w/street tires and long wheelbase but as Chaney said the trans/conv could stand upgrading ie deep pan,extra cooler,upgraded converter.
Definitly run a snubber. Blowing the tires off should be just a matter of how long you stand on it, that big car will eat up alot of real estate fish tailing at 40+ mph.
Posted 2010-12-28 9:13 PM (#254856 - in reply to #254697) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1119 Location: CA
1959Dodge - 2010-12-27 6:00 AM
Question for Sermey, or maybe Kent has this trim piece????
I had a new top put on the 59. If you look closely (See the little arrow), you will see
there is a little piece of metal trim that is missing for the SS Trim---It has been missing
since I bought the car 6 years ago.
I'm wondering if you could do one of your drawings on that trim piece, Sermey or do
any of you other guys know where I can get that piece or any suggestions on how to
have one made up?
I have thought about making a fabric trim strip that would snap on and cover that up too,
possibly even building in a "Stop Light" in the trim?????
The car should be in the exaust shop today (Monday, Dec 27). I will try to get over there
and takes pictures of exaust , headers, etc etc.
Thanks for your help Sermey, Kent, and others!
Later
Gary
Here is a photo of the piece you are missing. I haven't got a spare and mine isn't for sale but I'd bet it would be easier to have someone fab one up using a metal brake than trying to find one. You'll have to get a snap button for it too!
Posted 2010-12-28 10:12 PM (#254881 - in reply to #248389) Subject: Re: Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
Expert
Posts: 2244 Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
Thanks for the pic, Fins in the mirror. John said He will try to make somthing up.
I shudda thought to take a pic of that on Börje's car, He is only 3 miles from me
New exaust just got finished (6pm PST Tuesday Dec 28). I will try go get over to shop tomorrow
and gets pictures of headers and the whole exaust system (If it isn't pouring buckets here).
Gary
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Building a 440 for my 59 Dodge
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