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| question, can u buy drum/hub together, yes/no only other option is buying used drums or separating the drums from the hubs is anyone separating the swedged together drums and hubs, and then selling the hubs, my options, buying 8 drums and having the hubs seperated from the drums , cost of unusable drums and shipping could be to exspensive, or is there anyone with access to drums that would seperate the drums from the hubs and sell me the seperated hubs looking towards the future |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The studs can easily be pressed out and the hub separated from the drum. Hydraulic press is a must and the hub supported with a piece of sturdy tube that allows the stud to go through.
The drums are balanced together with the hub though....... |
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Location: Connecticut | 196061SAVOY - 2015-04-10 5:25 AM question, can u buy drum/hub together, yes/no only other option is buying used drums or separating the drums from the hubs is anyone separating the swedged together drums and hubs, and then selling the hubs, my options, buying 8 drums and having the hubs seperated from the drums , cost of unusable drums and shipping could be to exspensive, or is there anyone with access to drums that would seperate the drums from the hubs and sell me the seperated hubs looking towards the future I would try to find good, used drums rather than going this route. Try Big M. Also, are you sure your drums are too far gone to reuse ? Ron |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The most significant problem, with installing the 2-piece drums is finding two sets with good, round (turn-able) linings,
and with both sets having about the same amount of drum surface wear, on them.
The front brake drums can be the new, modern 1-piece items, since the front brakes, literally, fall-off of their
wheel spindles, so, it doesn't matter if they are 1 or 2 piece assemblies.
After the rear drum assemblies are pulled off of the rear axle, the drums can be turned-round, and, then,
can have their outer drum, and their inner hub, sections be separated, as above discussed.
This separation work requires the use of a heavy-duty press (as above mentioned, too).
After the drum assemblies are pulled away from the axles, the axles/seals/bearings should be well-serviced and lubed, so that
they won't need any servicing for many years.
Rear brake drum assemblies should be in better physical condition than the front brake assemblies, because the
front brakes work and wear a lot 'more' than do the rear brakes.
So, you are only, really, looking for two 'old-used' (2-piece) brake drums, which probably
will come off the rear axle of a donor car.
Edited by d500neil 2015-04-10 2:53 PM
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Location: NorCal |
Pressing out the lug studs without first removing the swaging risks enlarging the hole in the hub. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Perhaps "risks"...but does not necessarily cause problems to occur.
Been there; successfully done that, many years ago.
No problems ever subsequently encountered.
Edited by d500neil 2015-04-10 7:33 PM
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| okay, I understand, iv been reading about this subject , why buy a bunch of potential sight/unseen boat anchors , when u could separate the hub from the drum and buy brand new drums , that was kinda my point, |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Again, the primary reason to find, separate, and install 2-section (rear-only) drums is for their ease of service and maintenance,
in the future.
As far as :"boat anchors" are concerned, any good provider of the used rear drums should
be able to confirm and warrant that they have "mic'ed" the drum surface and that the
used drums can be successfully turned...or, possibly, used as-are.
But, you do want to try to get drums with an approximately equal amount of wear on them.
Edited by d500neil 2015-04-10 7:42 PM
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| very good, its not a problem for me to service the rears, I have proper tool, have done service a few times already,(just finish replacing a rear axel shaft, both seals, lubed the bearings, once the rears have been freed up a few times, there very easy to remove, the fronts, as stated receive over 60% more wear than the rears, they don't sell hub/drum set up for the fronts , maybe im too irish (is there such a thing), but u can separate the fronts and then buy new drums, or find a set of rears and separate the drum/hub and use those on the fronts correct, I got it I got it, my main reason for this post was,im looking for someone to do the dirty work, separating the drums/and hubs, save me the hassle of finding,buying,shipping drums to the east coast, trying to save a buck or 2 |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yes; used/wrecking yard drum-hub sets are available, in various sizes, which can be installed for the front (or rear-) brakes.
From the Evilpay examples, above, very nice looking drums are available for front or rear applications.
Any competent auto machine shop should be able to turn brake drums and to separate the drums'
two sections from each other.
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Location: NorCal | d500neil - 2015-04-10 2:16 PM
Perhaps "risks"...but does not necessarily cause problems to occur.
You mean other than loose studs.
Been there; successfully done that, many years ago.
No problems ever subsequently encountered.
Thus the value of anecdotal experience; my experience hasn't been so positive (found lots of studs welded in because of oversized holes)
The difference between doing it wrong and getting away with it versus doing it right. |
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Location: Arizona | As I recall on many cars I've had with factory "two-piece" rear brakes, that is, the studs were in the axle hub and the brake drum simply slipped over the studs, there was always clearance between the drum holes and the stud shafts. Sufficient that you could put the drums on over the studs and slightly rotate the drum back and forth due to the cleareance that existed. It's the center hole that forces it all into true, not the studs. Aafter the wheel is installed and torqued down that the drum would be locked in place agaisnt movement. If it moved at all it would be on the very first HARD stop when it would rotate, if it could, till it couldn't move any more. Unless you make REALLY hard stops when you back up I don't see it moving again. This is the only way I can see 2 piece working what with the need to allow suffient clearance to even get the drum to slip on and off over the studs. I'm not seeing a problem converting these FLs to a two piece setup, it seems like worrying about the studs not being swagged to the drums is worrying needlessly.
As to the balancing issue, sure the factory may have balanced the hub and drum as a unit since they could easily do it for pennies. And back in those days a whole lot of people never got their wheels balance at all unless it "shook TOO much" and then they often only balanced the front wheels. A factory balanced rear hub/drum would have just be a way to faciliate not having to bother balancing the tires and wheels. A lot of average drivers back then rarely went over 50 or 60 mph except on their once a year trip to disneyland where they kicked it up to 65 . |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | 57chizler - 2015-04-10 2:53 PM
Pressing out the lug studs without first removing the swaging risks enlarging the hole in the hub.
Is swaging and staking (sort of ) the same thing? How would you remove it? File it?
Greg |
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| special tool bit, cuts the meat off the stud, then press out the stud or cut the stud flush, then drill hole in center of remaining stud, should cave in on it self, search on line, couple good threads |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | Oh, so you cut the stud all the way down. Thank you. Of course you would --- the stud is junk right?
I couldn't figure out how to cut that "shoulder" that was tight to the drum face.
Back in the day, I tried to press studs out of a couple excellent drums because some stud threads were damaged. I pressed in my arbor press until it started to humm dirty songs! I gave up!
Greg |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Hold your horses - if you only need to replace the drum, there's no need to grind away (or off) the studs. Gently press down each stud approximately 1/8" and remove the drum.
Now you can examine each stud and see if it needs to be grinded round. Grind as little as possible - check with the new drum and when it finally fits, press the studs back again fully and then make your choice - to restake the studs, or to have a removable drum (suitible for the rear brakes).
I have found it difficult to find new studs (and nuts) in quality steel - normally they are yellow made and out of a very soft (we call it hillbillyiron) steel. |
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| Iv got this, if I can paste it on here
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 TaperedAxleBrakes[1].html (12KB - 302 downloads)
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Location: Connecticut | From the attached webpage: Why the conversion is doneThe real reason most people recommend trashing the tapered axle unit is because servicing (mainly brake jobs) can be a real pain. Well, its time someone shows how easy it is to covert the rear brakes from swedged drum/hub units to the later- and much easier to service- slip-on drums.According to him, this is the 'prevailing opinion' ??? Not if you understand how to correctly remove the rear drums. The only reason he gives for performing the difficult procedure of separating the drums from the hubs is that it is a 'pain' ? I've been able to remove rear drums in less than five minutes by correctly using the tapered axle puller. How much time/money is it going to take to remove the hub from the drums ? Also, how often do you do a brake job on your collector car ? Maybe once every 10-15 years ? In addition, the one piece hub/drum assemblies are balanced as a unit. Once you separate the two, all bets are off. Ron |
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Location: Massachusetts | OK, so I am a FWDLK newbie here. I just bought a '58 Plymouth. It's a running, driving car. The brakes are surprisingly good, so I don't have any immediate intentions of looking inside the drums, but I would like to do so once winter rolls around just to check things out.
I do have a factory service manual. I can't seem to find ANY information on rear brake drum removal, special tools, or anything related in either the 'Brakes' or 'Rear Axle' section. Front brake drum removal is mentioned in passing. Is it just me, or is this manual vague, poorly illustrated, and only partially helpful for most people?
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | The operation of separating the hubs from the drum is roundabout 1 hours work, that's ofcourse if you have an hydraulic press.
For to keep the units balanced, I usually drill a small hole through the drum and just countersinked in the hub (usually inbetween two studs) - a drop of red paint in the countersink and you have your reference point. I have drilled my reference holes without measuring, hence the left drum will not match the right hub if I do a full teardown.
I do a full brake checkup at least once a year, so for me the separation of the drums really speeds up the important maintenance work.
Then, of course, I drive my car and enjoy it all spring/summer/autumn in roadtrips in Sweden.
For a collector car, as Ron Points out, it will not be necessary with so tight maintenence and you would rather keep the car original state |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
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Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Hi Paul! I can't tell as for the '58 Plymouth manual, but Chrysler had a full manual in '57 and supplement for '58. Check the full 57 Chrysler manual here http://jholst.net/57-service-manual/index.php
You need to get yourself a 5-arm puller, or even better one like in the picture below.
Remove the cotter pins and remove the crown nuts - check the threads and the cotter pin holes for former abuses.
Clean up the threads and mount the crown nuts reversed, dont botton them, leave 1/8" of "moving space"
Mount the hub puller with all five nuts - it must be totally even.
Start to screw in the puller until contact and apply some force.
You are NEVER supposed to whack the puller screw with a sledge hammer - that can damage the differential trust block.
Just keep on applying force to the puller and the hub will pop away.
You can use a plastic/rubber hammer on the puller "T" arms for more force, if needed.
Edited by wizard 2015-04-12 11:01 AM
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p7190004.jpg (100KB - 184 downloads)
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Location: Massachusetts | Thanks, Wiz. I think Plymouth has a 'full manual,' too. I just don't think it is a good one. It seems to leave a lot out. Hopefully your description will make more sense when I get around to looking at my brakes this winter. Paul |
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Location: Connecticut | Chumley - Here's some good reading material: http://imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/125/Page01.htm You're right that there's not much on removing the rear drums in the shop manual. However there are lots of threads on this board that will steer you in the right direction. Here's the tool that you'll need. Ron
 (Brake Drum Remover.JPG)
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Brake Drum Remover.JPG (26KB - 139 downloads)
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Location: NorCal | LD3 Greg - 2015-04-11 6:01 PM
57chizler - 2015-04-10 2:53 PM
Pressing out the lug studs without first removing the swaging risks enlarging the hole in the hub.
Is swaging and staking (sort of ) the same thing? How would you remove it? File it?
Greg
Swaging (or swedging) is a process wherein the extended part of the lug stud knurl is "peened" down onto the drum to retain it. Pic below shows the stud before and after swaging. A special cutter is needed to properly cut away the swage. |
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Location: NorCal | LD3 Greg - 2015-04-11 6:01 PM
57chizler - 2015-04-10 2:53 PM
Pressing out the lug studs without first removing the swaging risks enlarging the hole in the hub.
Is swaging and staking (sort of ) the same thing? How would you remove it? File it?
Greg
Swaging (or swedging) is a process wherein the extended part of the lug stud knurl is "peened" down onto the drum to retain it. Pic below shows the stud before and after swaging. A special cutter is needed to properly cut away the swage.
 (Drumstuds_02.jpg)
 (Swedge_cutter.jpg)
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Drumstuds_02.jpg (67KB - 142 downloads)
Swedge_cutter.jpg (7KB - 137 downloads)
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| <p>its okay, we all understand the pros and cons, I love the tapered axel drum set up. no problems with removal. the problem is, if u need new drums, what does one do, this article give u a way out, other than nos drum/hubs, what's left, being at the mercy of some joe, selling u a potential boat anchor, plus a ton of work, I don't think back in 1957, they thought about, none of these cars we ever made to make it past the age of 40, its 2015</p>
Edited by 196061SAVOY 2015-04-12 4:59 PM
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Perth Australia | I wouldnt use that puller for drum/hub removal
You need one that goes on all 5 wheel studs, those hubs can be really really (cant emphasize really enough) really tight
A 3 legged puller will most likely damage something or just break
The noise they make when they pop off the axle can help you with your sore stomach  (if you know what I mean)
When I did mine, my wife ran outside to see if I was OK 
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Location: Connecticut | ttotired - 2015-04-12 7:02 PM I wouldnt use that puller for drum/hub removal You need one that goes on all 5 wheel studs, those hubs can be really really (cant emphasize really enough ) really tight A 3 legged puller will most likely damage something or just break The noise they make when they pop off the axle can help you with your sore stomach (if you know what I mean ) When I did mine, my wife ran outside to see if I was OK :laugh: I've used the three legged puller (shown in my previous post) for over 20 years on numerous cars, including one that sat outside in northern New England for over 25 years. I haven't met a drum I couldn't remove. Nothing's been damaged either, although the biggest problem seems to be shoes that have fused onto the drum surface. So liberal application of PB Blast, WD40, etc. is necessary. It's also what's recommended by Chrysler (see 1957 Chrysler shop manual, page 28). Ron |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Patrick (above-), if you need new drums (too much wear on them, or they're defective, etc.)
you go 'out' and buy new drums, as above discussed.
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Location: Connecticut | ...or find good used ones. Ron |
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Location: Ontario, Canada | 57chizler - 2015-04-12 3:57 PM
LD3 Greg - 2015-04-11 6:01 PM
57chizler - 2015-04-10 2:53 PM
Pressing out the lug studs without first removing the swaging risks enlarging the hole in the hub.
Is swaging and staking (sort of ) the same thing? How would you remove it? File it?
Greg
Swaging (or swedging ) is a process wherein the extended part of the lug stud knurl is "peened" down onto the drum to retain it. Pic below shows the stud before and after swaging. A special cutter is needed to properly cut away the swage.
Thank you for the explanation and pics.
Greg |
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Location: York County, PA | Ron is right. I bought a 60 dart that was in such bad shape that it could not be restored and I used it as a learning tool by systematically taking it apart. When I got to the Drums and Hubs it was as Ron says.
Catch ya later. |
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drums/hub seperation
