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Posts: 1384
  
Location: Ocala, Florida | WOW! Anyone have about $150,000 I can borrow?
http://www.auctionsamerica.com/events/feature-lots.cfm?SaleCode=AF1...
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Posts: 1728
Location: Fleetwood, Pa | Why would the spring special trims be on the trunk....... better yet, why weren't they installed level on the passenger side?? I assume this is Tom Gerrard's car?? Beautiful car though.......wish it was mine so I could put some miles on that odometer!!!
Edited by sidesho_bob1961 2014-07-31 6:37 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3480
Location: Montreal, Canada | Oh my! I love it, colour and everything! What a beauty!   
Still, i wonder why such a beautiful restoration ended up putting the rearview mirror in the 1957 location?
Edited by soiouz 2014-07-31 7:27 AM
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Location: Sweden | How about this one Doc?
Edited by henricthornsund 2014-07-31 1:05 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Here's the listing information:
Offered Without Reserve
Estimate: $140,000 - $160,000
The DeSoto Firedome was one of a glittering array of glamorous convertibles that are easily admired to this day. This finely presented two-door convertible coupe is attractively presented in Spruce Green Metallic and Willow Green with a white power-operated soft-top, complementary green top boot and a Green vinyl with white accent and gray cloth interior that was available as factory code 632.
The power unit for this ‘50s cruiser is the 361-cid, 295-hp V-8 with 10.0:1 compression, dual exhaust, TorqueFlite three-speed pushbutton automatic transmission and a 3.54:1 rear end axle ratio. The car is appropriately large with a 126-inch wheelbase and has an overall length of over 18-feet. Among the features are Electro-Touch Tuner AM radio, dual rear antennas, tinted glass, windshield washers, factory wheel covers, tastefully sized whitewall tires; power steering and brakes.
This lovely DeSoto was professionally and thoroughly restored by Greg Groom at Chrysler Works in California in 2003. The car continues to be striking in all ways. As one of only 519 produced by the factory during the course of the1958 model year, this is a very rare example. The DeSoto has been awarded AACA recognition in the form of AACA National First Place, Junior Division at Greenville, South Carolina in April 2003, backed by a AACA Senior Division First Place Award in the Senior Division at Hershey, Pennsylvania in October 2003. To best illustrate the continuing quality nature of this vehicle, the DeSoto received the AACA Grand National First Place Award in Lebanon, Tennessee in 2014; a very strong statement indeed.
----Greg Groom is a very well respected MoPar restorer---
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1958-DESOTO-FIR...
This one just sold for 70k |
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh |
I would say the two cars are apples and oranges. The one that sold at B-J is a Firesweep, and a look under the hood shows a lot about the quality of the restoration. It needs some work to be brought up to spec and then after all the time and money you've got a nice example of a bottom of the line car. On the other hand, the green Firedome is EXTREMELY nice. I saw it a few months ago and while there were a few details I would change on it, the overall quality is there. As someone else mentioned, Greg Groom knows what he's doing on these cars and it looks like a nut and bolt restoration. It also just won an AACA Grand National which is no small feat in itself, especially with about 10 years on the restoration. It will bring more than the B-J Firesweep, no question. |
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Expert
Posts: 1886
| I don't disagree at all. was just showing it as a reference. |
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | Hey Mike - I know. You guys are familiar with these cars, more than most people, and the stuff you turn out is always done to a high standard. It will be interesting to see how much more the Firedome sells for compared to the Firesweep. It's a better car as far as rarity, workmanship and correct choices when it comes to colors and components (except for that 57 mirror and a few other details). But it all comes down to who's in the room that day… |
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Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | It's such a tough car for me.....
Any given car looks good in certain colors. Very few year model Corvettes look good painted black, for instance.
This car, nice as it is is just yucky in those greens. They just don't do the body lines justice. If that car were white, or yellow/white, or any one of several other colors, it would be a screamer. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | I feel the same way about the colors of my car. The blue is OK, but with white accent color
and a grey interior ???
BORING ! Looks like an iceberg on an overcast day !
Might as well paint the whole car BROWN, wheels, tires, bumpers, and windows included ! 
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | GregCon - 2014-08-07 2:49 PM
It's such a tough car for me.....
Any given car looks good in certain colors. Very few year model Corvettes look good painted black, for instance.
This car, nice as it is is just yucky in those greens. They just don't do the body lines justice. If that car were white, or yellow/white, or any one of several other colors, it would be a screamer.
I think the pictures don't do the car justice. Having looked it over in person, the green is much more intense than it seems in the pics and looks a shade darker. It's gorgeous.
Same thing with green cars from the 60's and 70's - seems like every Fury was like my grandfather's car; dark avocado green. You tend to turn up your nose because there are so many in junkyards that are faded out. Then you see a car restored in that color and it really looks good. There is a 70 R/T Challenger nearby done in that shade of green and it works very well. If you told me 20 years ago that I would be complementing a green Mopar, I would say you were crazy. But times change, and my tastes have certainly changed. |
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | Here's another pic - looks darker, but maybe that's the storm clouds on the horizon… |
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | try that again -
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Expert
Posts: 2312
Location: Arizona | uploads need to use the jpg file extension... It's a really nice looking car.
Edited by jimntempe 2014-08-08 4:25 PM
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Location: San Francisco | Nice car, i really like the spring ribs  |
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Location: The Mile High City | Wow! First Alan Faltus', then Max sold two of his, now Gerrard's! All in the space of a year or so - you would think these cars are plentiful. I have only seen mere glimpse images of this car until recently, when Brad posted a few photos from a recent show. It looks wonderful. There are a few nit-picks with practically every car, but I think this car is outstanding, and (obviously) others do too! Brad's other thread: http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=53195&posts=22&start=1
Edited by Lancer Mike 2014-08-11 4:13 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 537
Location: Upstate NY | the market is where it is on these cars. I like the car a lot but $150- 170K? I hope they get it but we all know the amount of work that goes into these cars if it is a Plymouth or a Chrysler is the same. Ok, so 500 or so were built, convertibles command the price by demand and availability like other cars and other things for that matter. Unless you have that kind of money laying around, I find it too high for me. In my world (an older one) I would put the value around 100K and yes I think the Firesweep convertible at Barrett-Jackson went for maybe a little more than it was worth. I was waiting for the hood insulation to fall out on the motor. I thought it wasn't ready for that kind of auction.
All said I love the car, color too! |
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Location: Parts Unknown | You can have my nicely loaded (albeit needing restoration) Fireflite for 1/3 their "estimate". |
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Location: The Mile High City | I asked the auction company for the high-resolution images and they sent me to this web page: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l84qsfp1p4q08yx/AADANgHbOw3VKLkJXq00xtTEa
After studying the images, it definitely looks like a 1957 De Soto was used to help restore this car. In addition to the 1957 dashboard, there is a 1957 hood emblem, 1957 trunk block letters, and a 1957 steering wheel and horn ring? The fender mounted rear-view mirror is aftermarket. Perhaps that right-most rib in the rack-o-ribs just slipped down a wee bit? It does have the local and distance radio option! I asked for an image of the firewall data plate, but they did not have one. It is a gorgeous car, I will be curious to see the auction results.
So would these "Electro Touch Tuner" radios have an additional floor button to jump to the next station? I only saw the one headlight dimmer floor switch on this car.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2014-08-13 7:02 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | 57 and 58 dashboards are identical. Only the instrument cluster changed, and that was in
the background panel only.
57-58 steering wheels and horn rings are also the same.
Trunk letters are different from 57 to 58 ?
Foot pedal actuator for the seeker radio was additional cost.
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Expert
Posts: 2490
Location: Kansas City, KS | My Imperials have the floor button for the radios hidden under the carpet. The headlight dimmer gets a hole to protrude through but not the radio button. May be different on non-Imperials? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 500
Location: Upper East Tennessee | I think the dash mirror is in a different location from '57 to '58 (at least it is on my '58 firesweep). This convertible does appear to have a '57 dash mirror. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | You are correct, the mirror was moved from 57 to 58, so I guess one could argue the hole for the
58 mirror might make it different. I am surprised the hole was not drilled if they used a 57 dash, given
the level of restoration some are saying this car got. Same for the hood wings. Maybe the owner just
liked those 57 features better ???
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | KcImperial - 2014-08-13 10:14 PM
My Imperials have the floor button for the radios hidden under the carpet. The headlight dimmer gets a hole to protrude through but not the radio button. May be different on non-Imperials?
Something tells me that MAYBE only?? Imperials had the foot button control.
Greg |
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Expert
Posts: 1906
Location: Ontario, Canada | Doctor DeSoto - 2014-08-14 12:05 Maybe the owner just
liked those 57 features better ???
NOBODY could like the 57 rear view mirror placement!! It is illegal in our area to drive while using distracting things. NOTHING today could possibly be more distracting than mirrors in the 57 location!! That has to be the dumbest thing Chrysler ever did. It sure didn't take long for the aftermarket to step in and take advantage of that mistake!! Way back when I started junkyarding, the vast majority of 57 cars had aftermarket mirror brackets in them. These brackets replaced the upper w/s moulding central junction piece and curved downward to provide a base for any current mirror to screw to. I installed one of these brackets in EVERY 57 car I ever drove for any distance or time.
Greg
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | The green/green convertible does have the '57 dash Mike mentioned - mirror toward the front, and a different radio grille/vent setup from a '58. You're also correct about the 57 hood emblem, the outer mirror and the steering wheel/horn ring. When I talked to TG about the outside mirror he said it was correct for a single rear outer mirror car. I've got the twin post version on both sides, so I didn't say anything but I'm pretty sure the one on the green car is an aftermarket. We took a while talking about the differences between our cars as far as OEM equipment and the choices you make when it's restored. There are some other things we compared notes on but I don't want to come off like I'm bashing his car - he's a very nice guy and has an amazing collection with lots of fin cars. I wish him lots of success with the sale. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | LD3 Greg - 2014-08-14 9:46 PM
Something tells me that MAYBE only Imperials had the foot button control ??
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I rarely saw them on "lesser" models, but did find them from time-to-time on
NY'ers and Fireflites. Hard to say if they weren't dealer installed. I have one
on my DeSoto.
Edited by Doctor DeSoto 2014-08-14 10:26 AM
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Location: The Mile High City | BSoto - 2014-08-14 1:52 AM
... but I don't want to come off like I'm bashing his car - he's a very nice guy and has an amazing collection with lots of fin cars. I wish him lots of success with the sale.
Right you are, Brad. I don't want to come across that way either. Those were just an observation and I think the restorer made good use of the 1957 parts on-hand. It looks like everything they did was very high quality and this car has been scrutinized and judged worthy of very high awards. If I were buying the car, I wouldn't loose a moment's sleep over the restoration and the way the car is right now. This one is ready for fun.
If this sells overseas, how many 1958 Firedome convertibles will remain in the U.S.A.? I have no idea where Alan Faltus' went, so maybe as few as three (known)? We are getting down to 1958 Fireflite convertible numbers here!  |
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | The list is shrinking… |
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Location: The Mile High City | Here is the 1958 trunk script for comparison, Doc. I think the 1958 script is a one-piece unit, whereas the 1957 block letters are just that. Probably a decent "value engineering" move to save a pretty penny on the production run - especially considering the trunk drilling process. The 1958 horn ring is a wrap-around affair whereas the 1957 ring sits atop the steering wheel. I do not think the steering wheels are interchangeable with the rings. Also the hub cover for the 1958 is ribbed while the 1957 is a smoothie. The second image shows the 1958 steering wheel setup and the 1958 one-piece radio grille / heater vent (another cost savings).
Edited by Lancer Mike 2014-08-14 2:44 PM
 (1958 De Soto 11 reduced.jpg)
 (Washington craigslist Firedome 071414 05.jpg)
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Washington craigslist Firedome 071414 05.jpg (40KB - 195 downloads)
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Mike, you do not want to "bash" this car, even though it appears to be a 1957 (what-ever-it-was) that is now is being advertised as being
a 1958 DeSoto?
Does anyone know what VIN tag it is wearing, or what its P/T plate may have to say about its provenance?
Greg; I happen to LIKE the 1957 rear view mirror position.
Its only drawbacks are that the middle passengers (who?) block its view, and, at above 90 MPH the mirror vibrates.
But, its eye-level positioning is much more convenient to me, than is the re-positioned 58+ position, which I find to be too close to
my face, for convenient focusing back and forth to the roadway ahead.
(Ironically, the late 57 Dodges got 1958 dashboards on them, because the factory ran out of the 57 dashes, and they
were churning-out the 57's like mad, right to the end of its production...and having to use the new 58-style dashes on them,
and: the 1958 Dodge prototypes have 1957 dashes on them).
Edited by d500neil 2014-08-14 3:04 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | I wondered about that too, Neil. Unfortunately, the auction company did not have an image of the cowl plate. I would be a lot more suspicious if this car had a hemispherical head engine under hood! My guess is it is truly a 1958 and they happened to combine it with a 1957 parts car during restoration. Like Doc said, they may have even consciously picked those parts because they liked them better that the 1958 stuff! Brad saw it in person, he will know.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2014-08-14 2:52 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | It's a 58 car - no doubt about that. I would say GG probably used the 57 trunk and hood when it was restored. It was done a while back - sold at Barrett-Jackson in 2003 and who knows, he might have been in a hurry to get it done for the auction and had to use what was available. |
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Expert
Posts: 2524
Location: Houston | I'm not bashing the car, I just think the colors do not do the body justice. That's a fact (IMO) that exists regardless of the quality of work.
IMO, also, they went to one piece lettering to avoid misalignment issues. Plus it's a lot faster to assemble a one-piece emblem that uses 4 pins and push nuts than individual letters that might use two pins/nuts each. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Once a car is 'finished', it's kinda hard to figure out what it all-was, before the work was done.
Unless Brad happens to have pre-restoration photos of it?
Greg, it is not Auction/Re-Sale Red, but I truly LOVE this car's (present) colors.
NOW, if 'all' cars were shades of green, like the red-cars are, now; then its color(s) would be boring; but IMHO
this car's green colors are very attractive and attention-getting.
Yes-But, B. Jones, the dash panel is something which is about the LAST OEM item that would ever need to be replaced,
in a restoration procedure.
In other words, if a "car" needs to have a replacement dashboard be put into it, what condition must the remainder
of the OEM car have had to be in...if even its dashboard was bad???
Edited by d500neil 2014-08-14 4:26 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 500
Location: Upper East Tennessee | My 58 Firesweep has a steering wheel just like this car and I'm pretty sure it's original...so it is possible the steering wheel/horn ring is original to this car. I think the colors of this car are GREAT! |
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | Neil - you're right, once a car is done it's usually difficult to find out what it was like pre-resto. And I don't have any pics or knowledge of what it started out as, I had only seen a few pics of the car prior to this June when I got an up close look at it. As far as the steering wheel - is it a Firesweep wheel that's painted in 2 tone instead of the Deluxe wheel? It doesn't have the same pattern as the Deluxe, so maybe that's it. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Sheesh ... you guys are making me think I've lost my mind. Are the 57 trunk letters used on the
58 hoods ??? Why do I have a jar of gold letters that I KNOW came mostly off 57's ?
The steering wheel and ring are the same for Chrysler AND DeSoto for BOTH 57 and 58. The differences
are in the deluxe wheel vs. the plain one. Check the parts book. The centers changed, but the basic frame
was the same.
I'm not crazy about the green, but it is refreshingly NOT red. As I said to Mikey, I would be bummed
to find an OEM red car, as the latter day auction flippers and erstwhile macho types have so over used
the color, that it isn't special anymore.
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | Doc - the 57 trunk letters are not quite the same size as the 58 hood letters. I bought a set thinking they were and found out differently. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Good intel ! Thanks.
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Location: The Mile High City | Is anyone from the site going to this auction in Auburn Indiana on Saturday, August 30, 2014? |
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | Sold for $175,000 - with bidder fees $192,500 out the door. Plus tax if the buyer didn't have a tax ID number. Pretty good price I would say - congrats to the seller. |
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Member
Posts: 30
Location: Mystic, Connecticut | Wow. This 1958 DeSoto Firedome Convertible is an outstanding car.
But a selling price of $192,500 out the door? More than I paid for my first house ... and more than I paid for my second house too.
I think this is a good sale for the seller in a sluggish vintage car market.
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Location: The Mile High City | Brad, did you end up going? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | WDJ40 - 2014-09-02 11:02 AM
Wow. This 1958 DeSoto Firedome Convertible is an outstanding car. But a selling price of $192,500 out the door?
More than I paid for my first house ... and more than I paid for my second house too.
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More than I've paid for the first three or four houses I owned ... COMBINED !
That's my point here, ... I have been doing this so long it seems my "hobby" has morphed
into something I barely recognize anymore. I often look at my car and wonder why I own it.
I hate car shows and judging and all the competitive/politics that come with car clubs and shows.
What is the point ? I guess, for me, the point is a super rare car just gathering dust in a barn
has an ambiance all its own and all the polish and pretty of the organized car scene is far less
exciting than the thrill of a "barn fresh" vision, even if I see it every day. I could never replace
it, so why not just enjoy it sitting there ?
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Veteran
Posts: 118
Location: Nawth Kerolinuh | Mike - I did not go to Auburn this year, had another event to attend. Would have liked to make the trip though - it looked like a lot of nice cars and all the prices weren't through the roof. There seemed to be some bargains on both ends of the sale. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1155
Location: somerville mass | you dont drive a car worth that kind of money. |
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Expert
Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | Beautiful color combo imo, one you just don't see. Crazy price, but as was said, it depends on the bidders that particular day, next week it might bring half. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 769
Location: Oley, PA | A beautiful car for sure, yet I am still stunned that anyone would pay that price.
Here in PA, I think the sales tax on that car would be $10,500. That is more than I paid as a sales price for any of the FL cars that I have owned over the years. |
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1958 DeSoto Firedome convertible No Reserve!
