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Expert
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Location: Lemoore CA | I think that it is great that there seems to be so many Forward look enthusiasts in Sweden and other Scandinavian countries, in many cases the pictures of the cars I see from this part of the world put a lot of domestic restoration jobs to shame. My question is, why are these cars so popular in this part of the world? You don't see the same demand for old American Chrysler products in other countries like say Spain, just an example, I am not saying that there are no enthusiasts in other countries, but it seems like there are a large ammount in Scandinavia. Mabeye per capita even more than in the US. There are also things other than cars that I am interested in that have the same type of styling that are extremely popular in this part of the world, late 50's AMI and Rockola jukeboxes, and Japanese transistor radios from the late 50's to name just a few. Mabeye some of our Swedish friends can shed some light on the subject. |
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Expert
Posts: 2596
Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | I try to explain at my poor english:
We in Sweden has love this old US classic car then they was new. But in Sweden in 40´and 50´century it was a dream to buy a new US car. So some people has bikecykel / smal Europe car. But over middle class has money to bought this US cars and management firm own this. But after some year when US car being use, then working class has advice to buy them. In 1957-58 started youthful revolt against society/parents and the RockenRoll music come to Sweden and many youth started cars clubs (like in US) But many believe it was only fashion craze But they has wrong. in begining at 70´ we has not many US car left meny off them was rusty and over. They has runing as like Raggarcar (member of a gang of people who ride about in big American cars). So in 1973 started the big import at Muscel cars from US. Lots off Hemi and ather muscel cars come over to Sweden from US. and at 1980 we stardet import many fins car from 1957-61 (before US colecter buy them) and now is many 60´-70´full size as being import from US. Last year we import 4000 (record year) off old classic car from US. In Sweden lives only 9 miljon peoplel and I guess we have abouth 100000 of US classic car here. And many in Sweden like to renovait this classic to very good conditions and many off us do it himself.
And I think it same histori in Finland at US cars.
We have abouth 5-6 US classic car magazine in Sweden
But we has export some off the top at the line cars back to US, like 300/Hemi/Boneville....
Edited by Windsor59 2006-05-24 10:06 AM
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Expert
Posts: 2596
Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | You have right spinout at Finland US car history. I remember when I growing upp, I has lots off freind ho imigrant from Finland at 70´ (for work in sweden) Many off my Finland freinds big brother, many off them buy/own old US classic cars. Some time we younger boys got with the older brothers. I remember in the car: good Rocken Roll music + (Hurricans a band from Finland) they pick upp fine girls and has lots off Beer with us. Like many Sweden boys ho own cars. In my litle town Motala there I live before, It was 40-50 off US-Classic car on every week at square And now we have more intresting neighbors here Norway and Danmark but they comes many year after us for colecting US-Clasic car, but now they have many fine cars. I wish you as live in US can come over to see what lives car stile we have here at summer. Some say Raggare or ather say we are car collecter. All small meeting to Big meeting it is funny to bee on. I think it is the best people here and I trust them.
And I has not being in US but I wish some year go over to see your cars.
Maby if any els from ather country Switzerland Australien New Zeland or England (Have many US cars) can tell us how it is in your country?
Edited by Windsor59 2006-05-24 3:08 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 689
Location: Santa Barbara, California | Honestly, no matter how it hurts sometimes to think of all these cars leaving the country, It warms my heart to hear SO MANY people in Sweden, Norway, Finland, etc that LOVE these cars and who give them fitting, proper, well respected homes. So many of the cars here in the US met their fates being customized, dropped and lowered, chopped, frenched, and parted out that it is wonderful to hear of so many being saved and preserved...
Honestly, when it comes time for me to sell my all original Pearl, I will probably try to find a buyer who is OUT of the US...simply because I feel certain that someone out of the country will give my car the good home, respect, and preservation that she deserves as she continues to age...
Keep those fins flying!!!!
Bryan
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Location: Bjorneborg, Finland | Well said Joakim - Finland is not really part of Scandinavia as OT pointed other Scandinavian countries, but I think he meant Finland as well. We had always tried to imitate what our western neighbor (Sweden) had.. Succesfully or not! =) U.S.-made cars have been a long tradition in Finland. Prior the World War II, about 90% our cars were American-made, although density of cars were not great at that period. In one time in the '50s/60s, Finland was the only country in the world were they sold more Chrysler products than GM products! New finned-era American cars in the late '50s and early '60s were not usually owned by ordinary people. They were too expensive and too hard to obtain for some known factors, thus importing was limited. Usually they were cars for representative purposes or for taxicab drivers. Ordinary people could not afford them when they were new, but few years later they were almost worthless and not many wanted these difficult-to-maintain out-of-style finned cars in the late '60s, except wanna-be 'raggares' ... Buying new widely available moderate-priced compacts in the '60s - like Darts, Valiants and Ramblers relieved the shortage for new American car demand.
Swedes imitated American car culture first. We tried to imitate same, but years later, when these cars were old enough for car hobbyists.. Driving an old American iron meant freedom, way of American living - just like rock'n'roll and this was the opposite to narrow-minded poor communists who drove Moskvitshs!! These finned U.S. cars were already HOT collectible old cars in the late '70s here, although they were just 20 years old then.. but the demand was greater than the supply. Then we tried to rescue everything, most were usually 4-doors, even if the only fins were left and all other body parts totally rusted out.. :LOL: If the car was 2-dr hardtop or convertible, it was well-known car all over the country among experts! They made importing possible for old cars from abroad in the mid-1980s, when the government of Finland finally reduced importing taxes. The rest is history..
(OOPS! This newly edited message was originally meant to replace my no. #2 message on this thread, but Joakim was already replied it and now I just notice it, sorry)
Edited by spinout 2006-05-24 4:35 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2596
Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | And peopel here (Sweden Finland Norway Danmark) ho have this intrest/hobby/live stile is from young to old and we has got at last year many girls ho has bought himself a US-Classic car.
I think this with US-Classic car is perfect to meet ather people and learn ather freind from differens country.
It is like populair in big town like small towns.
and
It is very intrest to read Finland was "Finland was the only country in the world were they sold more Chrysler products than GM products!" I trust you I remember many times I was in vacations in Finland and read Finland V8 magazine it was most Mopars car.
In Sweden we has before one fabric ho "built" Plymouth/Dodge not Chrysler/Imperial they comes finnish from USA. and one fabric ho built US-Car to bee limos. I own before a Chrysler NY 1963 ho was built in Sweden one off (4).
I hope this with old car is like now is populair at forward to next....
Bryan maby we can buy your car, Joke. I think at this site people take care off the finest fins cars at the world.
Edited by Windsor59 2006-05-24 4:39 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2478
Location: Dalveen, Queensland, Australia | The 'finest' cars? Maybe...
The 'finnest' cars? Definitely! |
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Location: Surrey, UK | Being UK located I get tovisit Sweden yearly and go to some of the many car shows they have over there, and the turn out is HUGE ! One show in VASTEROS can put up 3000,YES 3000+ plus cars,think about that!! The standard can be better than new, and ALL completed to standard manufactuer specs., to rat rods. I even saw 12 Cadillac ElDorado convertibles one year in a row, ALL AS NEW, 9 Buick Limited Convertibles, and 100's of Mopars ,which seems,as ours, to be their favourite cars, especially Dodge in all forms. As they have a long, 6month winter, there is always plenty of time for restoration, and there is a thriving NORS parts business there too,especially in glass,made in Finland.I was told that the interest was created by the AMERICAN influence over there, but I was unaware of any bases situated there,lower down in Europe for sure but Sweden etc.? Even modern Chrysler are big news there, and also getting around Europe and the Uk now too, with a PKD plant in Austria supplying most models including the 300C and coming soon the new Dodge range. At last I get to own and drive a RHD 300C, probably thanks to the Mercedes influence and they are postioning the brand directly behind/equivalent to Mercedes, with Dodge second, how about that ! CJ. 56 Imperial/ 60 Imperial/ 59 Dodge Sierra/ and soon a 60 Dodge wagon/still looking for my 55 Imperial. |
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Expert
Posts: 3069
Location: Scotland | Ciaran,that's just about a ForwardLook car-show you've got going on your own .According to the organisers at Vasteras,they reckon 10,000 cars at the Power Big Meet.Going by the sheer amount of cars cruising the streets of the city at night,I wouldn't be surprised.It's like being in the USA circa 1962.
http://www.bigmeet.com/# |
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Expert
Posts: 3069
Location: Scotland | So who is going to the Big Meet this year?,I think more of you Yanks should make an effort to go and see what it's like to be in "real" America(50s/60s).It's as if they buried the whole of Tulsa in 1957 and dig it back up every year.
http://www.bigmeet.com/# |
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Veteran
Posts: 101
Location: Walhalla, ND | The Swede's love the Yank Tanks. Had an e-mail last week from a friend over there--he was thrilled to see his first Superbird; but he was telling me that of the 839 1958 Buick Limited convertibles built, 72 are registered in Sweden. And of the 7,436 '58 Buick Limiteds built of all models, 318 are registered there. If you have questions as to "how many" of a particular model may be over there, let me know and I'll see if Marten can find out.... |
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Expert
Posts: 3069
Location: Scotland | Jim,you're right,they only love Proper Full-Size American cars there, the ones with real road presence and bold styling like Forward Lookers,57-59 Mercurys,58 Buick Limiteds etc.I'm just back from the Meet and must've seen dozens of 58 Limiteds,but here's a couple I seen in 2004.
 (1958 Buick Limited conv black.jpg)
 (1958 Buick Limited conv white.jpg)
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 1958 Buick Limited conv black.jpg (65KB - 969 downloads)
1958 Buick Limited conv white.jpg (69KB - 289 downloads)
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Location: The Bat Cave, Fairborn, OH | Amazing! I would not have guessed the 1958 Buick was so loved. Even in the land of its birth most of them disappeared long ago because (I think) they were too big and too ornate. You'd have a better chance of seeing a 1958 Cadillac, Chebby, Oldsmoble or Pontiac than a Buick at a show today in the USA. The black one (from the 2004 Swedish show) with the optional continental spare tire kit must be the longest 1958 Detroit automobile in captivity. The continental spare tire makes this car's butt look too big!  :)
Edited by 58 DESOTOS RULE 2006-07-10 11:01 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3069
Location: Scotland | here's another model that's popular over there,and one of my favourite non-FL cars and they're pretty huge too.
 (59 Mercury Park Lane convertible.jpg)
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59 Mercury Park Lane convertible.jpg (69KB - 476 downloads)
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Posts: 2102
Location: Idaho - where men are men and spuds are spuds | GAWDY would be the word for those Buicks (although I really liked the '53 Skylark convertibles). |
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Posts: 708
Location: Fredrikstad, Norway. (Europe) | Hmmmm - I thought this was a Forwardlook MOPAR site ?!! Don't mean to be fuzzy, like most American made cars of course, but...........
As for me, I personally own just a litle over 3 dozen MOPARs. 10 (ten) of them satisfying this 1955 - 1961 Forward Lokk MOPAR site: '57 CHRYSLER Saratoga 4 door Hard-Top, 1958 DODGE Coronet 4 door Hard-Top, 1959 DESOTO Diplomat Custom 4 door Hard-Top, 3 each 1960 DESOTO Adventurer 2 door Hard-Top, 1960 DODGE Dart Phoenix (D 500 ?) 4 door Sedan, 2 each 1961 DODGE Dart Seneca 4 door Sedan and a 1961 DODGE Polara 4 door Sedan. So please don't leave out little ("unknown ?) NORWAY.
For me the interest in American cars started at age 2 1/2 years, always riding in the cars my father drove. Lumber trucks, gravel trucks, brewery trucks, taxis, limos, personal private cars, and you name it. When he applied for a drivers job, he would always ask if the company owned American made cars. If they didn't, my father didn't care much about working for that company.
As a 15 year old back in January 1963, I entered the U.S. for the first time. If any of you American guys out there reading this is old enough to remember the new and 5 - 10 year old cars back then, I guess you can amagine what an impression this made on a 15 year old, that was allready interested in American cars. It was HEAVEN for me. Just 16 year old I bought my first car, a 1956 STUDEBAKER Golden Hawk 2 door Hard-Top with the big 352 cid Packard V8 engine. Another creation by Virgil Exner by the way, who created ALL the Chrysler Corporation "Forward Look" cars. My next car, 18 years old in 1965, I bought a 1957 DODGE Coronet convertible, customized in Hollywood. And in 1966 my absolete most wanted car, a 1957 DESOTO Golden Adventurer 2 door Hard-Top with the 2X4 barrel 345 cid HEMI V8 engine. This car had ALL possible options, and I paid U.S. $ 86,70 for it to a Bar-lady across the street from where I workwd in San Pedro, California. Unfortunately I had to leave the U.S. shorly after because I was drafted to be sendt to 'nam to kill innocent people I never even new, and that never had done anythig cruel or bad to me or my country.
So in 1975 I became a member of the U.S. Walter P. Chrysler Club, Inc. In 1976 I founded the very first REGION of this very fine club OUTSIDE the U.S., namely the NORWAY REGION (30th anniversary this year and still exsisting "in a way") I also was a "heping hand" in forming the SWEDEN REGION of this same very fine club.
In my opinion, the many car clubs here in Scandinavia (as well as in the U.S. and perhaps even other countries), should be given the full HONOR of the enormous interest in American automobiles among regular people. And I am telling you guys 'n gals, if you are still not a member of a car club, JOIN NOW !!! It is so much fun to go to meets and gatherings, cruise nights and more and meet other people with the same interest.
And the story could go on and on, but I guess I have to save some for later. Thanks for your time.
Very Best from Einar in NORWAY.
European Membership Coordinator, WPC Club, Inc., Kalamazoo, Michigan, U.S.A. |
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Member
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden | Some pictures from SWEDEN.
Mixed MoPar: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/teddyfreddy2000/album?.dir=78bd&.src=...
Imps: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/teddyfreddy2000/album?.dir=3599&.src=...
From Classic Car Week in Rättvik.
2005: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/teddyfreddy2000/album?.dir=be67&.src=...
2006: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/teddyfreddy2000/album?.dir=edf5re2&.s...
/ Teddy |
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Expert
Posts: 2596
Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | Thanks Teddy for the pics, many FL cars I never see before at Sweden road/car meetings. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 988
Location: Kansas City, Kansas | Why have forwardlook-era Ch**ys or Fords been so much more popular (therefore often worth more) in the U.S? The average 'Joe' collects on what his/her vision of the good ol days is. Grandpa owned a Ch**y....it was cool....so I want a Ch**y. Few DeSotos are desired in this same way across the general U.S. population. It was also apparent that mopar just wasn't as successful creating the image of greatness through advertising (or else sales would have been equal to the big 2. The memories and the relics of that GM/Ford built image is what has been driving up demand of older fords and Ch**ys all these years while mopars (as well as Stude's and all the rest) have languished, worth less despite lower numbers available. The typical U.S. classic car buyer buys on image, as opposed to value or style.
In Scandinavia, on the other hand, there is very little history in their culture about finned detriot iron. Their granddaddy probably didn't own an american car (or any car at all, perhaps) and the advertising image put on by the big-2 back then is almost non-existent in europe. I doubt you saw billboards, magazine ads or TV commercials crammed in the eyes and ears of the typical 1958 Swede for a '58 Impala.
The stigma of a 4-door does not seem as bad there either, unlike in the U.S. I assume this also dates back to U.S. advertising culture. Grandpa drove sedans while the young handsome, successful man drove a coupe. That is what you saw in most advertising. Coupes or convertibles are still preferred everywhere, but that goes back to the pureness of the styling, not the old-man image that was portrayed in U.S. culture of a 4-door.
Today, they buy on looks and value. Our mopars look great and they don't have all that cultural history blinding them to tell differently. The sleeker, the better. The most outlandish, the better. The best styling, wins hearts, and that's it.
I am honored that they love the forwardlook so much. To me, it is redemption. These are some of the best looking cars ever built. The typical U.S. collector will never know that because we have too many cultural memories fogging our minds.
Edited by slimwhitman 2006-08-16 8:49 AM
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Forward look in Sweden
