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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Rushford Minnesota | Well, Here goes, Fed ex just dropped off the Brake conversion kit i purchased from TUCKYMAN on Ebay, First impression is that he definately has his stuff together, The packaging is awesome, will keep to reuse if i ned to ship something heavy out, the guy pre assembles everything. probably to make it fit in smaller crates but the nice thing is that I know going in that everything will bolt together, everything appears to be new parts. Even though he said in the aucthion that the spindles are reconditioned, I don't see any of the typical marks on them from disassembly and the tapers for the ball joints are perfect. I will start this install tomorrow and will post pictures as I go along. The other great thing is he includes all the part numbers for all the parts except the spindles so when I need to replace pads down the road no issues on getting the correct ones.
 (brake1.jpg)
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 brake1.jpg (47KB - 153 downloads)
brake2.jpg (41KB - 143 downloads)
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | Thanks for the info Colin. I'll be watching your progress. I wonder if he has kits for the '56 Dodge? |
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Posts: 1812
Location: Slidell La. | You should ask him for the application of the spindle , in case of an accident or whatever it may be and you need to replace one of them . Is that the kit where you need to make modifications for your turning radius ? You pais d the price , there should be no secrects on parts used . |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 474
Location: Rushford Minnesota | he said 78 aspen, there are part numbers on the spindles i'll write down and post, so far I have the spindles installed and tomorrow the rotors will go on, i had to shorten the tie rod end and adjusting sleeve to get toe to look right and i did have to remove part of the spindle stop to get the turning radius to look right, but a sawzall with a good blade can take care of that in minutes, one other thing i have found is that the bracket for the brake line needs to be moved to prevent the line rubbing on the upper control arm all i did was bend down the prong and flip it over and bolt back to the same spot and got all the clearance i need, the kit also included detailed part numbers of the rotors, calipers and all the other small parts, when i get time to take the photos out of my camera i'll get them posted, if all goes well the car will be back on the ground tomorrow and i can start in to going through the rear brakes. Also for anyone planning to do this be prepared to drill out all the cotter pins, this car appears to never have been apart and all the cotter pins just fell off when i touched them with a pliers, will be going with 15" rims as i have the set from the 50 plymouth that weas totaled in the flood but so far looks like the 14" will clewar with no issues, |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Rushford Minnesota | Well here are the photos and my final observations, you can see in the photos how much I took off the tie rodd ends and adjuster sleeve, If i was doing it again i would have trimmed the other side of the adjuster and another .25 inch off of the tie rod end, after i got all installed did a tape measure toe set and looks like it will come in just fine, thought i was going to have camber issues but using a plumb line and a measure (got out the 50 year old alignment manual to convert inches to degrees) seem to be within a degree or two of correct and still have some adjustment there, since this is a shorter spindle from upper to lower ball joint does shorten your suspension travel some but I jumped up and down on the bumper and couln't get it to bottom out so ok there, the master cylinder is from a 74 dart with manual brakes and disc/drum setup. i chose to plumb in the hydraulic brake switch instead of mounting one on the pedal so I don't have to reroute the wires, anyone want part numbers just pm me and I can send them to you. Just had to trim 1/4 to 3/8 off the end of the rod to the pedal, could have shimmed the master cylinder but decided to go this way so I didn't have to install longer bolts. All in all a positive experience and if i had had all the misc hardware I needed on hand would have been a one day job(Forgot to buy grease and needed to replace a few nuts) I'm sure the AAJ Setup is nice but for me with my budget i prefered to save the 300 or 350 over going their route. If you have a car with solid suspension and no alignment issues I would probably recommend spending more money to have a bolt and go setup but this one I am very happy with and would recommend to anyone. Just remember you'll probably need to plan on drilling out all the cotter pins and If you need to replace any of the castle nuts I had to run them on a belt sander to shorten them up just a hair.
 (tie rod end.jpg)
 (trimmed stop.jpg)
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tie rod end.jpg (93KB - 155 downloads)
trimmed stop.jpg (65KB - 143 downloads)
spindle 1.jpg (90KB - 155 downloads)
assembled 1.jpg (86KB - 145 downloads)
master cylinder.jpg (106KB - 145 downloads)
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Location: N.W. Fla. | How much shorter is the distance between ball joint mounts? It's 61/2" on my '60 Plym. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 474
Location: Rushford Minnesota | from what i recall approx 3/4 inch, Ill measure them up tonight and let you know |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | I did mine WITHOUT cutting the suspension...Don't you guys realize you are buyin' STOCK junkyard parts for an Aspen/Volare?
If you can "Machine" that steering linkage, then you could machine the parts needed to "Copy AAJ'S kit? On aNY typical auto shops brake lathe...
It just amazes me that here I am flat broke, workin' man with disabled wife, and I'm not out here sellin' stock parts with a huge mark-up...
Mabe I need to get in on the market too, then I wouldn't be broke either. But, then I wouldn't be tryin' to HELP the Foward Lookers, I'd be makin' money off the less knowlegable folks....
When you cut the steering tie rod ends, you have in effect limited the amount of alignment that the cars steering has now...NOT to mention the steering stops need to be ground off....You would need a fifty acre feild to turn the car around if the stops are left stock...I tried this LONG before there was AAJ...
I QUICKLY figured out that the SAFEST way would be to MAKE the parts fit the '58 Plymouth, rather than MAKE the '58 fit the parts.....
These folks are gettin' paid for selling something that anybody can get from a junkyard...This is NOT a "Kit" gesigned for the car, it's a car designed for the "Kit"...............
Edited by dukeboy 2007-11-10 8:15 PM
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7411
Location: northern germany | cutting original suspension parts, messing up original suspension geometrie, running compact car suspension components on a full size car (dangerous!) and gaining turning radius just to save (?) a few bucks?!!!! not for me. imo dukeboys way is the way to go. or, if you drive fast, with larger wheels, WILWOOD. to me, when it comes to brakes the best is just good enough. the $400, or less, i payed more for my 4 piston wilwoods is cheaper than a new front clip, face surgery, or a funeral.
Edited by 1960fury 2007-11-10 8:21 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Rushford Minnesota | Funny that everyone is bitching about the fact that this is the wrong way to go, lets see more suppliers with a reasonably priced solution, another thing to consider is that people have been shoving mustang II front suspension/steering parts in to street rods for the last 30 years and if compact car/full size car issue was gonna be a problem I don't think it would have had the staying power. Also does the 400.00 4 piston wilwood setup include everything i need to bolt it up and spindles/rotors/bearings/caliper brackets or is it gonna be 800.00 to 1000.00 by the time i have to buy all the other parts? people keep talking about being able to make the needed parts on a brake lathe. Well, thats a very expensive tool I don't have access to. maybe the folks who have managed to make these parts so easily can turn out a quantity and sell at a reasonable price that will still turn a proffit for them. Remember the only "machining" i did was with a sawzall and a thread file. I don't mind people telling me they think this was the wrong way to go but at least be willing to consider the fact that not all of us have acess to the tools/skills/references that some of the rest of you have. also if you look at the spindles that i did install and measure them up against the factory originals you'll fing that they are just as beefy in diameter and fewer failure points as the steering arm is now part of the spindle instead of being bolted on to the back. again, look at the mustang two setup. The last posts are making a big deal about quote "junkyard parts", everything I bought was new parts, even the spindles appear to be new or at least professionally reconditioned/inspected. are people upset that the guy I bought from got the markup on the parts instead of the local NAPA/pep boys etc.? also as far as getting the parts myself from a salvage yard, around here all you find is late model cars only or the "Vintage" cars are so rusted up that the suspension parts are crap to begin with. I suppose I could have taken the caprice frame I have and grafted that on to the front of the plymouth and then changed the factory column to a collapsible column and then put a late model Ch**y small block and newer tranny so i could get better mileage and cheaper parts, then I could install 5 point harnesses and then modern latches in the doors, the list of safety upgrades goes on and on, then again I could have just bought a new car and let another piece of classic iron go to the crusher. |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: northern germany | SCHROEDC - 2007-11-12 11:13 AM
Also does the 400.00 4 piston wilwood setup include everything i need to bolt it up and spindles/rotors/bearings/caliper brackets or is it gonna be 800.00 to 1000.00 by the time i have to buy all the other parts?
i think payed around $600-650 for all the parts needed including braided stainless steel teflon brake hose. however that's a about 8-9 years ago. no need to buy the $$$ wilwood kit. i converted to wilwood long before their 2 57-61 kits were available. their parts bolt directly to the original spindles/hubs no need to modifie/cut original suspension parts in any way (except slightly longer wheel studs are needed) and very easy to install, no special tools needed.
Edited by 1960fury 2007-11-12 1:42 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Northern North Carolina | I've been wondering about this issue, as brakes are the next item for my Plymouth (have owned the car since 1983 and *always* had brake problems, even when she was my daily driver). How many of you made the decision to connvert to disc brakes, and what system or kit, etc did you use? For those of you who chose NOT to switch, what was your reasoning? |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | SCHROEDC - 2007-11-12 11:13 AM
Funny that everyone is bitching about the fact that this is the wrong way to go, lets see more suppliers with a reasonably priced solution, another thing to consider is that people have been shoving mustang II front suspension/steering parts in to street rods for the last 30 years and if compact car/full size car issue was gonna be a problem I don't think it would have had the staying power. Also does the 400.00 4 piston wilwood setup include everything i need to bolt it up and spindles/rotors/bearings/caliper brackets or is it gonna be 800.00 to 1000.00 by the time i have to buy all the other parts? people keep talking about being able to make the needed parts on a brake lathe. Well, thats a very expensive tool I don't have access to. maybe the folks who have managed to make these parts so easily can turn out a quantity and sell at a reasonable price that will still turn a proffit for them. Remember the only "machining" i did was with a sawzall and a thread file. I don't mind people telling me they think this was the wrong way to go but at least be willing to consider the fact that not all of us have acess to the tools/skills/references that some of the rest of you have. also if you look at the spindles that i did install and measure them up against the factory originals you'll fing that they are just as beefy in diameter and fewer failure points as the steering arm is now part of the spindle instead of being bolted on to the back. again, look at the mustang two setup. The last posts are making a big deal about quote "junkyard parts", everything I bought was new parts, even the spindles appear to be new or at least professionally reconditioned/inspected. are people upset that the guy I bought from got the markup on the parts instead of the local NAPA/pep boys etc.? also as far as getting the parts myself from a salvage yard, around here all you find is late model cars only or the "Vintage" cars are so rusted up that the suspension parts are crap to begin with. I suppose I could have taken the caprice frame I have and grafted that on to the front of the plymouth and then changed the factory column to a collapsible column and then put a late model Ch**y small block and newer tranny so i could get better mileage and cheaper parts, then I could install 5 point harnesses and then modern latches in the doors, the list of safety upgrades goes on and on, then again I could have just bought a new car and let another piece of classic iron go to the crusher.
SCHROEDC, In no way was I sayin' you did the wrong thing, just I guess I'm a poor workin' man, and if I had the chance to get the disc brakes for my car for $300, instead of $1000, then I'd kinda be askin' the guy who told me AFTER I bought them for a $1000, "Where were you before I committed myself?"
I was just tryin' to save some money...AAJ has the BEST kit out right now, as it allows the use of the factory spindles...(Although, I can't afford the parts)..
I tried the route that you went long before AAJ was selling his kit, and found out that the set-up you purchased will fit, but there was alot of stuff I had to change before it was workin' properly...I just assumed that everyone's kinda in the same boat as me, just tryin' to survive much less building a car.
I also assumed that if one was into these types of cars, they could work on them also, I have since found this not to be the case.
You also got to realize that some, not all, but some folks will find out what fit's these cars and start pulling junkyard parts and sell to the unsuspecting person what they claim is Custom disc brakes for their car, when in fact, their just junkyard stuff cleaned up...I don't and won't do this, because I feel that the people that have these cars may one day have something or some info. that I could use, and why screw over the very people that are your "Peers" in these cars.....Please understand that I was really tryin' to help, but now I realize I was wrong...
This will be the last post on disc brakes I will post, as it seems to create more hardship than good........
Just remeber, when the rest of the world is tryin' to get in your wallet, at least I was tryin' to save you some money.... 
Edited by dukeboy 2007-11-13 9:11 PM
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Regular
Posts: 91
Location: Sebastian, Fla. | Yes I did! 59 Plymouth leaky right front cylinder got tired of it hanging up, forward and backwards. Read many posts on this sight and it seems like a comon problem! Replaced only the front, turned down pressure on back brakes, fronts have plenty to stop car. Forgot to mention I used AAJ brake kit, a little pricey, but well worth it. Kept old brakes in case I ever sell car. I did the hole job in less than 10 hours. A good tip is to let the front calipers gravity feed, simple! |
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Location: Northen Virginia | This is an old story, some people have access to junkyard, others no, most of the time those with access don’t have the money.. Personally every time that i go over one, the prices are far expansive than a new part, for example last time i went the junkyard owner collect $100 for a used and abused greasy Ac compressor for 95 ford.. So i didn’t ask for nothing i just walk away. In my case is the space, I cant have my car in the air for 5 days until I sand blast, paint and put all the parts together, even the only sand blaster in my area is almost an hour drive in one way. I have to do it in one day.
That because I go with the Kit, because is something that you just install, doesn’t mean new NOS or beautiful.
Ill be grateful to buy a set of spindles ready to bolt on, ill not buy the whole thing because shipping price issues, but definitely ill buy form this new ebay seller, as Duke boy said, the main component is just a junkyard part, same that as AJJ always sold.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 690
Location: BELTSVILLE, MARYLAND 20705 | DENNIS. AAJ DOESNT SELL USED PARTS THEY ARE ALL NEW, THE NEXT TIME YOU COME OVER I WILL SHOW YOU A AAJ DISC BRAKE CONVERSION. THIS WOULD BE WHAT YOU WOULD USE FOR YOUR 61 NEW YORKER..
SEE YOU SOON,,,, SMITTY |
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Expert
Posts: 2244
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | I sure your info was a lot of help to some ppl.
I can't say that I blame you , for "Keeping Your Head Low Now" (IE Low profile)
I have been a lot quieter than I usta be with posts on this site.
Have won awards at the last 4 shows I attended but except for mentioning it here,
I will not post it elsewhere-----Nuff turkeys losts their necks in Nov---so why add one more, (Me) to that list?
Neil asked me if I was going to Vegas-----well, at my age , I like to hand around with friendly folks, ie, ones
that will not go into attack mode is car has wrong battery cable or whatever.
Anyway, Thanks again for your post. |
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Inactive by user's request
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada | 1959Dodge - 2007-12-04 4:43 PM
............ I like to hand around with friendly folks, ie, ones
that will not go into attack mode is car has wrong battery cable or whatever.
Anyway, Thanks again for your post.
I never understood that mentality. If I was building a factory spec show car, I'd be grateful for people modifying their cars, as it would leave more original parts for my restoration.
And since my '59 is a driver, I would rather not use up original components a restorer needs.
I like the AAJ kit because it is easy to install and the steering linkage is left alone.
My only problem with the AAJ kit was needing to find the adjustable master cylinder push rod from a '57 or '58, as the '59's one piece rod was not the correct length to use with the dual master cylinder.
K.
Edited by Kenny J. 2007-12-19 11:47 PM
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Location: Warren, Michigan | Kenny,
Mopar Performance parts sells an adjustable pushrod that works but it was pricey.
I used a non adjustable pushrod and shimmed it out off the firewall and did some grinding on the tip of the rod.
Aside from saving money, the big thing for me was time. I was putting the brakes together before hitting Woodward.
I can't wait to get the AAJ kit to change over my front to drums, but at least I have the dual res MC.
--Joey M
Edited by Fanbladeus 2007-12-20 8:09 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 273
Location: Los Angeles, Ca | SCHROEDC - 2007-11-12 8:13 AM
I suppose I could have taken the caprice frame I have and grafted that on to the front of the plymouth and then changed the factory column to a collapsible column and then put a late model Ch**y small block and newer tranny so i could get better mileage and cheaper parts, then I could install 5 point harnesses and then modern latches in the doors, the list of safety upgrades goes on and on, then again I could have just bought a new car and let another piece of classic iron go to the crusher.
Who would do such a thing like that? Just leave the 50 year old rusted worn out manual drum brake parts on there and hope that the brake fade will be minimal enough to avoid rear ending idiot honda drivers who are too busy drinking frappa mocha grande lattes and texting on their cell phones to pay attention driving that panic stop for no real reason. 
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 474
Location: Rushford Minnesota | I appreciate all the feedback that has been given since I started this project, I do agree that there are several options here and personal preference and skill will probably determine which route folks go if they decide to do this, Like I mentioned in an earlier post to this thread If I had had the money for the AAJ setup I would probably have gone that route or one similar, at the time though in addition to my decision to use the aspen volare setup as a cost savings, roger at AAJ apparently was having health problems and did not return my call untill a week after I had completed my brake project, The total cost for this job including the master cylinder was just at 500.00 and from the driving I did before the snow set in I am happy with the performance of my brakes. The car stops quickly without pulling, For my 60 savoy I will most likely look at using the machined aluminum brackets that were mentioned in another thread but again, for my experience with the aspen/volare route I am satisfied. |
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Expert
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Location: Oconomowoc Wi | OK. Heres a question that when answered will probably validate the less expensive conversion. With the Idea of brakes being the ability to safely stop a car, Can anyone who has made the volare conversion please respond to this:
A) Does the Volare /Aspen conversion stop your car safely?
B) Does the Volare /Aspen conversion stop your car better than the original drum brakes? Im a little sceptical of the arguement by some on the list that the stopping power of this conversion is unsafe, siteing the AAJ and Wildwood solutions as the only "commercially available" safe answer.
Could it be that the Volare/Aspen solution is more than atequate to safely stop the car, and that the AAJ and Wildwood solutions are overkill?
When it comes to brakes "you can never have enough" is certainly an arguement people have made in justifying the more expensive AAJ and Wildwood brakes, but come on,.. don't knock the Aspen/Volare kit on just opinion alone.
The rubber needs to hit the road in order to ever settle this issue. I'd like data and feedback from owners operating these brakes in real world situations.
THAT, I'll believe over the bravado of a thread of opinions. JMHO Bart
Edited by Bart_59_Dodge 2007-12-21 9:27 PM
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Location: Warren, Michigan | Did I miss where the price of the Volare/Aspen kit is? I think i found it on ebay for around $500? Is this how much the kit goes for? |
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Location: N.W. Fla. | Fanbladeus - 2007-12-21 8:35 PM
Did I miss where the price of the Volare/Aspen kit is? I think i found it on ebay for around $500? Is this how much the kit goes for? Depends on how much you get from him or get yourself. He has spindles, dust plate & little stuff like the hubcaps for 185(?). |
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Location: Slidell La. | Another question is , do you have to modify the tie rod ends ? And does the Aspen spindles change the geometry on the frontend , along with the steering radius ? Many moons ago I dug thru the archives and found a thread where Billy-Jack Ebare used mid 80s 5th ave spindles before kits came along . I contacted him and he said that by todays standards that it was not a good chioce because you lost turning radius , had to modify tierod endz and a sleeve had to be cut down and the spindles kicked the wheels forward a little . So that is what makes me wonder about late model spindles on older cars . Update , I posted this before i read , some of my questions have been answered .
Edited by narleycharlie 2007-12-22 10:59 PM
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ | I was thinking of going with Fatmans dropped spindles. They say you have to switch to disc brakes and they give you a list of the parts you will need (they only sell the spindles). I believe he said he thought it was the Volare set-up. |
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DISC BRAKE CONVERSION
