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Expert
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Location: York County, PA | According to our local TV here in Pennsylvania, David Layson of Layson's Restorations was arrested by police at the Carlisle Show for selling counterfeit parts. He was jailed and released on bond. Federal charges are pending. A tip from Chrysler led police to arrest Layson. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
 
Location: bishop, ca | WOW; what sorta stuff was Layson's selling?
Federal charges?
What would have happened if he had been caught merely selling drugs?
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Expert
Posts: 1231
Location: York County, PA | Charges are theft by deception, trademark counterfeiting. He was released on $150, 000 bail. |
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Expert
Posts: 4051
Location: Connecticut | I heard about this Saturday evening from someone that witnessed the whole event. Initially, the cops cuffed all the Layson's sales people. But they were quickly released after the head honcho was identified. He was led away by the authorities. Initially I thought it was a tax thing, but this, uh, sounds a bit more serious. |
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Expert
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Location: Connecticut | Here's the link to the story: http://www.wgal.com/news/16879078/detail.html |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Ron, what did Layson's specialize in selling?---headlight trim? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | Yeah, I was there, and caught it when it happened...Thing is, Layson's has been around for years, and to do this now just shows what this economy is doing to our hobby....Neil, they mainly sold restoration parts for musclecars, butsold some stuff for cars back to '62....
Edited by dukeboy 2008-07-14 9:13 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Man, that's some serious police presence; I wonder if they came in Code-3 (lights and sirens?????) |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | YES!!and SWAT was there in full tilt too! It was the first time something like this EVER happened in the 11 years I've been going to Carlisle.... |
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Expert ,, George Passed away July 28th 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1295
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | OVERKILL to say the least..... I bet there would have been less force if Bin Laden himself were selling the parts!!
George
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Expert
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Location: Ripon, WI | This really is a bunch of bull... Like Chrysler would make the stuff anyway... I guess they want all their old stuff off the road or with Brand X engines. |
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Expert
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Location: Northen Virginia | wow, wonder if they can do this when people of overseas visit the country. |
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Expert
Posts: 4051
Location: Connecticut | I think the key here is that they weren't selling licensed merchandise. The show of muscle here was to let other vendors selling unlicensed merchandise know that they may be next.
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Expert
Posts: 4533
Location: Ripon, WI | So... what will happen? People will just stop making them.. the question is... Did they just make parts or was the mopar logo on them. If they are just making parts, then this will get very interesting. Anyone know what he carries? Did it have logos, or was it just plain parts? |
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Wise Old Village Idiot
Posts: 3591
Location: Dellslow, West ("By God") Virginia ! | DC, or whatever the new name is now, has ALWAYS been on a 'witch hunt'
Clay Wood on here got 'busted' for sellin' T-shirts and decals a couple of years ago.
There was a truck stop, beer garden, whore house, auto parts store out in thge mid west called "Jeeps" Chrysler's 'police' sued him for name copying. He lost his business (payin' lawyer fees) but prooved his dad named him that after Popeye's Jeep.
Don't know if Carisle Productions are still paying a huges % of the total take to Chrysler or not. A few years ago I head it was in the twenty percent range the had to pay.
The reason Chrysler is being a dick head on the re-production parts thing. They want you to buy a NEW car from them. Not ,fix up an old one. That's what Clay said they told him.
F0rd Carlisle, FoMoCo OFFERS free, help/banners/stuff. F0rd even endorses those Calvin Hodges pissing on a F0rd emblem decals you see on the back windows of every other brand of vehicle. They consider that free advertisment.
GM Carlisle, doesn't do, or charge CP anything. Corvette Carlisle olnly charges CP 5%.
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Account Suspended
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Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | That's why on my business lic. the name is still Overhome Classics. "Plymouth Rock" is just something the builder of the shop scratched into the stucco as a joke. |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Copied this from another Thread.. Posted by Newsdog.....................
http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=21477&...
Hi guys: There are two sides to every story - even wild ones. Layson's has never hidden from this, and believes it is in the right here. The money required to defend this may make it a moot point however. BTW - WGAL included Dave in Monday's 6pm newscast, and took down a libelous article from its website. Thanks.
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Lakewood, WA – Dave Layson, owner of Layson’s Restorations of Lakewood, Washington vehemently denies any wrongdoing in connection with the investigation that resulted in the searches of his properties in Kent and Lakewood, Washington, seizures of his inventory, and his arrest at the annual Chrysler at Carlisle car show in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
The investigation comes as the culmination of a long-running dispute between Layson’s and the Chrysler Corporation and is the result of competitor’s complaints about the market share Layson’s has been able to capture manufacturing long-discontinued parts for the collector car hobby. Competitors have long been frustrated by Layson’s ability to bring these parts to market, and sell them at fair prices to consumers.
The suggestion that excess or ill-gotten profits have been generated is totally without merit. The costs associated with engineering, producing, marketing and shipping these long forgotten pieces is substantial. Layson’s has always sought to produce the best part at the lowest cost for the consumer and has done extensive legal research to support its position in this.
Layson manufactures parts without Chrysler’s trademark Pentastar logo and under the law, is completely justified in so doing. Layson’s has always sold the parts it manufactures as “Reproductions” and has bent over backwards to make the distinction clear because frankly, the new parts are far superior to the originals.
In addition, Chrysler has yet to roll-out a meaningful licensing program to include manufacturing standards, exclusivity agreements, marketing agreements or a uniform royalty structure.
Because of that fact, and years of turnover and indecision at Chrysler, Layson’s Restorations, like many other similar vendors, has not opted to participate in the company’s ill-conceived and yet to be fully developed licensure program. As a result, Chrysler has tried to intimidate and coerce vendors in this industry to pay into what amounts to a, “Black hole” of a non-existent and yet-unformed licensure program.
Parts that carry the Pentastar logo seized from Layson’s were all purchased from “licensed” vendors, and are not so called “Forged auto parts” as the mis-informed authorities acting at Chrysler’s behest allege.
Layson has records and purchase orders to document the acquisition of these parts and is confident that a more careful investigation will prove these facts. While Layson’s does not subscribe to Chrysler’s claim of licensure, other mis-informed vendors have been intimidated into doing so, and subsequently have produced parts bearing the trademark Pentastar. Again, any of those parts in Layson’s possession were legally purchased from those vendors and the documents exist to prove it.
Layson’s believes that the Chrysler Corporation wrote a criminal complaint that constituted a, “Wish list” of sorts. Chrysler was then able to persuade investigators in tiny North Middleton, PA to carry their water, which in turn lead to a request for assistance from the Lakewood, WA Police Department.
The searches, seizures and resulting loss of business have been entirely excessive. The serious verbiage contained in the charges, excessive bail, and the use of clearly excessive criminal charges are outrageous.
The questioning of employees, the seizure of personal property and the blind speculation about, “Exploding” investigations by Lakewood law enforcement officials who have no background in this case or trademark law are way, way out of line, are libelous on their face and have already caused Layson’s Restorations serious and substantial damages in the marketplace.
Efforts to recover the company’s reputation, inventory and lost revenues will be vigorous.
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Veteran
Posts: 144
Location: Colorado Springs, CO | Stuff like this really steams me. Chrysler has no intention of ever making parts for their classic vehicles. Now they are trying to pressure smaller companies, who have taken the initiative and assumed all the risk for manufacturing and marketing these parts, in an attempt to either stop them or have them join their nebulous licensing/merchandising plan. People have been making aftermarket parts for cars ever since there were cars. As long as they are legally marketed and don't have the original manufacturer's logo, I think they are in the clear.
The excessive police presence based on a "tip" and what seem to be fairly sketchy details of "fraud", a non-violent crime, is ridiculous. Those PDs should be ashamed of themselves. If Layson's is cleared, as I suspect they will be, those PDs may have a little more to worry about than just egg on their face. I'm sure there will be more details forthcoming, but if anyone at Layson's is even indicted, I would normally be surprised. However, the little guy usually gets the short end against big money in criminal or civil suits. If Chrysler really wants to press this and send a message to other manufacturers, Layson's is in for a rough road whether they are in the right or not.
I guess these are desperate times for the big auto manufacturers. |
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Veteran
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Location: Colorado Springs, CO | Oh and BTW, didn't Chrysler sell off their MoPar parts division? So why the heck should big Chrysler even care? I guess they're just trying to find money they didn't have and couldn't make themselves to help right the ship. |
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Account Suspended
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Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | If I were Layson I would go into the Chevy parts business after this. |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7809
Location: Williams California | Chrysler ought to worry more about their current sales, rather than spending mega-bucks chasing down these vendors. The other manufacturers have already figured out the fact that a collector of antique cars of their brand will most likely carry their brand loyalty over into their new vehicle purchase. ---John |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: bradenton florida | i'll bet they can squeeze a few hundred dollars a year out of him. that would go a long way in helping pay for all the big wigs at chrysler |
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Location: Warren, Michigan | If anything, this hurts the Chrysler brand. It really is a shame... |
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Location: Vancouver, BC | DK's300 - 2008-07-15 9:53 AM
Oh and BTW, didn't Chrysler sell off their MoPar parts division? So why the heck should big Chrysler even care? I guess they're just trying to find money they didn't have and couldn't make themselves to help right the ship.
Nope, Chrysler stills owns Mopar parts. The selling of Mopar was just another looney rumour making the rounds.
Mopar is more a parts distributor than a manufacturer. All the Chrysler Corporation parts they have sold over the years were not designed or engineered by Mopar Parts, but by the engineering and styling people of the Chrysler Corporation. Thus all the rights to parts designed and engineered by Chrysler belong to Chrysler and not the parts division.
Bill
Vancouver, BC |
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Expert
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Location: Northen Virginia | this is bad sign, for example Gary goers is selling parts with the mopar logo and part number. Hope Chrysler doesn't care. |
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | hemidenis - 2008-07-20 8:29 AM
this is bad sign, for example Gary goers is selling parts with the mopar logo and part number. Hope Chrysler doesn't care.
Perhaps Gary has a license from Chrysler to do so. In which case he has nothing to worry about. |
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| I don't understand Chrysler's action-at-law nor the damages they've suffered. Nobody was deceived into believing these parts were made by Chrysler, and Chrysler lost no competing sales as a result. (Chrysler left the business of selling these pieces years ago.) So any suit or criminal complaint will be without merit. But only after the expense and embarassment has been borne by the Defendant. The lesson here is it's best to be cooperative, business like, and negotiate. Chrysler (and the others) don't really know how to care and cultivate loyal customers. Wouldn't it be great if Chrysler themselves would repop some of the tougher, rarer classic car parts, e.g., door sills for 55-56 Plymouths, batwing air cleaners for 55056 Chrysler 300 dual fours, hemi Cuda stuff, floors for Forward Cars, etc. Instead, they try to kill the brave souls who try to do it for them. Chrysler was having a helluva time selling Crossfires, dumped them at big discounts, etc. But could you buy one from the scarce inventory directly from Chrysler? No, you had to scour hundreds of dealers, most with zero Crossfire inventory. Idiots are running our charished institutions. |
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Expert
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Location: Connecticut | Yeah, this stunt might end up biting Chrysler in the keister. It looks like a knee jerk reaction. Chrysler should take an example from their counterparts at GM, namely, giving quality repro parts their 'officially licensed' stamp of approval.
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Location: Vancouver, BC | ronbo97 - 2008-07-21 8:20 PM
Yeah, this stunt might end up biting Chrysler in the keister. It looks like a knee jerk reaction. Chrysler should take an example from their counterparts at GM, namely, giving quality repro parts their 'officially licensed' stamp of approval.
GM gives the 'officially licensed' stamp after the repro parts manufacturer pays GM its license fee and agrees to pay whatever anuual fees, etc. they charge. Licensing is a business proposition, just as repro parts manufacturing. Neither is a hobby nor a charity. And that is the way GM and Ford have looked at it for years, as does the new Chrysler as we are now realizing.
It is imperative that manufacturers look after their rights, be it designs, trademarks, names, or parts. Their money, reputations and future are all tied up in it. If they don't fight to protect it, they lose it. Simple as that.
And if Chrysler has been battling with Layson over these details for over five years, I would hardly call it knee jerk. It's more like they had to do it or have the door opened to the hoards (?) justing waiting to jump in and make Chrysler parts without worrying about paying any stinking licensing fees.
It's just like dealing with misbehaving children. If you don't carry out the threatened punishment children won't pay any attention to you and do whatever they want.
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Expert
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Location: Northen Virginia | Imagine call to Chrysler and try to get a license to repro something, near to impossible.
-FL member calling to Chrysler Corp: Hi good morning, I am looking to reproduce some old part that Chrysler don’t make anymore, can you transfer me to someone who can help me?
-Receptionist: What?. Old part? We don’t sell those, we sell new cars only..
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Expert
Posts: 1819
Location: Vancouver, BC | hemidenis - 2008-07-22 2:45 PM
Imagine call to Chrysler and try to get a license to repro something, near to impossible.
-FL member calling to Chrysler Corp: Hi good morning, I am looking to reproduce some old part that Chrysler don’t make anymore, can you transfer me to someone who can help me?
-Receptionist: What?. Old part? We don’t sell those, we sell new cars only..
You ask to speak to someone in licensing. There are people at Chrysler who deal with that - otherwise Chrysler would not be going after Layson.
From the editorial info section of "Mopar Enthusiast" -
"LICENSING : Amos Automotive Publishing is licensed to use to use MOPAR, a trademark of Chrysler LLC, in the title of the magazine Mopar Enthusiast. No other connection with Chrysler LLC is expressed or implied. The editorial opinions are those of the published and do not necessarily represent the views of Chrysler LLC."
You will find similar statements in all the other Mopar car magazines, including Mopar Action and Mopar Collectors' Guide.
Looking at an old issue of Mopar Action, there is an ad from First Place Auto Products, makers of repro Mopar rear spoilers. In fine print on the bottom of the ad -
"Dodge, Plymouth and Mopar vehicles names, logos and images used are registered trademarks of DaimlerChrysler Corporation used under license to First Place Auto Products."
And don't put down the people who answer the phone. Although the new ones may be green, the staff will know to whom to transfer your call. It all depends on how you approach the subject.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 474
Location: Rushford Minnesota | I used to work in the collision repair industry and a large part of the parts we dealt with were aftermarket crash parts, sheet metal etc. these companies in the far east were sure as heck not paying liscence fees to any of the auto manufacturers and the only standards they had to meets were the U.S. motor vehicle safety standards. if these comapnies can get away with it and since it is a multi billion dollar industry The auto manufacturers would have long since found a way to put them out of business. The funny thing is that about 4 years ago Chrysler was loosing so much business to aftermarket bumpers and headlights that for a 6 month period they would price match the aftermarket parts to try and get the business. all you had to do was give your dealer a quote from your aftermarket parts supplier listing the price and they'd sell an OEM part for that price. If he isn't actually using the logos, part numbers, Etc. he should be able to find a lawer to take the case for a percentage to sue for loss of business and slander |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1172
Location: bradenton florida | here are the contacts i was given when i contacted them about making licensed shirts
For Dodge related licensing inquiries, please contact Ramez Toubassy at rtoubassy@brand-sense.com.
For Mopar related licensing inquiries, please contact Mike Rachuy at mrachuy@trilicensing.com.
Please copy me on your inquiries.
Many thanks,
Kim Ray
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 398
Location: Watertown South Dakota | Gotta be careful,,,back in the 80s, I had a 58 F--d drag car. I had a repair shop and had a little F--d logo in the corner of my business cards. The local dealership seen one of my cards and turned me into the big boys in Dearborn. The dealership claimed that I was trying to be a competing dealer. Geez,,,,,I was a one man, back yard repair shop and they knew that. I thought, if anything, I was advertising for them. I got a real nasty call and letter from the factory lawyers and almost got into real deep do-do. Needless to say,,,I never set foot in the local dealership after that. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
Location: Oxnard/Ventura, California | I honestly think this is the beginning of the end for Chrysler... I don't know how well that 'investment group' that bought Chrysler is making out with the purchase of this automotive venture, but when the local dealerships are throwing in a PT Cruiser for $0.99 when you purchase a Ram, or another dealership selling trucks at half off the sticker, something is awry. It is very indicitive of the economic shape this country is in, but aside from it being 1974 again, here is a company that isn't in the best shape to begin with producing predominantly something this market doesn't want, there are bound to be problems. Chasing the little guy in this case, is as previously stated, a waste of time and resources. Someone in Highland Park really needs to quit rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic!
KFD |
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Elite Veteran,, James Passed away March 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1028
Location: Melbourne, Australia | What ended up happening to these guys , does anyone know ? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5009
| Chrysler? didn't they go bankrupt?
are they still suing people over a couple hundred dollars in licensing? hurting the classic car owners? |
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Expert
Posts: 1348
Location: Valley Forge, Pa. | So what happens when an after market parts is defective and somehow causes an injury? Won't Chrysler be the first name on the lawsuit? |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 5009
| You mean an charger emblem causes a wreck? Or a bumper/fender?
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Expert
Posts: 2519
Location: central Illinois | Saw Layson's at Monster Mopar in St Louis. He's still going strong!
While in his tent a guy was asking about certain parts with Layson, they had a good conversation and the guy moved on to another vendor. A couple minutes later Layson or his helper noticed the guy had left a bag of stuff behind and they flew out of the tent trying to locate the guy. A couple minutes later the guy returned and was very thankful they had gone out of their way to track him down.
Hopefully Chrysler has learned their lesson.
As an aside, I read in Mopar Collector's Guide that Mopar Parts has made it where an automobile is not allowed to be pictured with the Mopar logo. Seems they're afraid the parts division will be confused with the automobile division. Bunch of idiots. |
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Layson's Restorations Accused of Counterfeit Parts
