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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
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Location: bishop, ca | I also like to see the rear leaf springs on a side view of a car; gives it a real purposeful appearance.... |
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | Yep, in most cases I agree with Sid, but I looks at a FW car with skirts, and it reminds me of Börje's 58 Olds, which is to me at least, an overweight and bulky looking car,---looks like a "Middle aged FL" that has eaten and drank to excess-----but that is just my opinion---I likes to see them looking "Lean and Lively"----kinda like me, I lean, but Lively????? Well_______________  |
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| Guys are waaayy off topic. maybe we should "debate " skirts or no skirts on a new thread? HHmm?
In regards to the "elderly lady" comment,I guess magazines do not tell all.
I was just quoting what was written in the article.
I did not say Bill was an elderly lady.
Maybe the author wrote it to pump the story up to sell more copies...
Regardless,it was cool tracing the car's origin 22 years back!! Not exactly a daily occurance and not all cars are that lucky to have that kind of history!!
Later........
Edited by canuckfins 2008-10-01 11:30 PM
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | ya Your right. That was some great "Sleuthing" exposing the car for what it really is.
Same thing had been done to a 59 Dodge Convertible--which was represented as a "D500", unless you read the questions that some users asked, in the question and answers section of Ebay.
But the car you mentioned, there was not even a hint that the car was not a "Factory D500", and in fact the poster of the sale went out of his way to say it was.
as to your other matter about skirts you are correct but I suspect a thread about same, will find a lotta disagreement among our membership here------a common occurence------but not all that bad, if we all liked the same thing , there would not be enough of that car for all of us, and if everybdoy liked skirts, Sid would be lucky not to be "Skirtless"¿
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Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | Count me in with the skirtless crowd when it comes to FLs though, Gary.
IMO, similar to another poster here stated, stuff like skirts and continental kits have no business being on any FL - all they do is weight down and bloat the sleek FL design. Yeah, while the QC ain't jack for the '57's and '58's, the FLs, IMO are, hands down, the best and most timeless designs of any "classic".
Skirts and CK's aren't bad themselves, but they look horribly out of place on FLs, IMO. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | That's OK, Dwight; our threads DO tend to wander away at will (...which one is WILL?).
This thread is pretty well played itself out, by now, so let's not 'skirt' the issues!
I happen to like the appearance of fender skirts on 59 NY'ers and 61 Soto 2-drs, due to the shape of their quarter panels, and
the shape and the location of the stainless steel trim, on them.
But on the 57's? ... NAH!
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | I suspects U right, about the thread running it's course, as anyone is free to make comments on the Phony D500 and as of late, Nobody has done so. My memory is getting terrible , but I cant recall if Aivar's 61 New Yorker Convertible has skirts or not. Will havta look. I can't recall Sid's car either, so maybe it looks good with Skirts---if ya feel you are stepping on somebody's thread, Sid, How bout posting a pic of your car with the Skirts, (on a new Thread) I've been wrong before and will be again---so curious to see what it looks like with skirts----Thanks
Gary |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Aivar's car (a 61 NY'er convertible) does not have skirts, and would not look good wearing them.
Sid's got a 61 DeSoto, and it DOES look good wearing skirts, due in part to the type/style of its stainless side trim.
A 59 NY'er 2-dr has stainless trim running from the rocker panel and over the rear wheel opening, so it looks regal , especially in black, wearing skirts .
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| I have found out about this thread from Neil. and yes, this is, and I'm 99.999999999999999999% sure this is my old 57 Dodge Coronet 2 door sedan. IT IS AND WAS NOT A SUPER D500 model!!!
First off, some things need to be set straight about this car. First, the "former" owner did not buy this from an estate, I did, and he bought it from me, and I bought it from it's first and only owner, yes it was an elderly lady. We had quite a visit when I found it. God rest her soul.
I sold this car as a 33 thou and change original 325 Red Ram 2 barrel car. I also sold a D500 longblock with the car. I suspect that's the engine in it now. I didn't keep any records as to serial #'s and engine numbers. But it was an authentic 57 D500 engine.
I see certain subtle signs that this was my old car. One is the non-repaired pass. kick panel, looked just the same when I turned loose of it. Now, on the driver's fender, at the bottom of the section between the wheel and door, that had a small amount of repair work done. Notice how it's not "smooth" and true if you follow the lip down to where it turns in at the bottom. And I also recognize certain little cues under hood tipped me off. My wife even stated when I showed her pictures on Ebay says, "that sure looks like your old 57 Bill". I cannot see it, but if I could see under those fender brows, I used "fiberbond" to fix those pesky rusty places underneath, oddly the tops of the fenders were good. Another clue is the spare looks to have a "portawall" whitewall. Again, mine did also. I wish I could get a better look in the trunk walls, as I painted it with that splatter paint that you could get from NAPA.
I'm not hurt but wonder why I was passed over in the past article years ago, guess it makes the story more dramatic, but why not tell the truth? I remember Neil expressing anxst about it, and might have even expressed it to the magazine?
I need to dig through my old title papers and see if I can find some registration info. I probably threw that stuff away years ago, alas.
Kudo's to Neil for his observations on this car. I now mess with the 78/79 late B Magnums, and with the Magnums, i'ts hard to cover up a clone as there's just not many of either era car existing to mistake or mix up cars. Do you ever sometimes just look at a car and say, "ya know, I think I owned that car" or knew someone who did.
Should be end of story. Wonder who the unsuspecting clone buyer was? |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Thanks, Bill; it IS a small MoPar world, especially regarding the performnace models thereof.
And that's a GOOD thing.
What is seen to be happening, recently, is that an owner will 'upgrade' his car--and that's fine; but what happens too often is that the owner, or a next owner, or a subsequent owner, either forgets or invents a story regarding the provenance of that car.
Puffery is one thing, but conscious mis-representation, or fraud, is something else.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Bill, that small area of noticibly repair-damaged driver's fender may be related to possible additional damage on the lower driver's door area, which would have required a partial repaint of the door; hence the noticible overspray onto the edge of the driver's door trim panel.
Whatever the reason for the re-painting of the driver's door, it must have been performed early on in the car's existence, as the service stickers which appear on the door jamb have been there for a long time.
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| God help the poor slob who wanders into this site with a picture and a few words about his car!! Will it be considered "puffery" or fraud? I'm going into the john to stick my fingers down my throut now! I think we should open a new section called "The purists review", with a warning that the content will be full of guesses, suspicions, egos, and a ton of puffery. Enter at your own risk!! |
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Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | carjock - 2008-10-05 5:03 PM
God help the poor slob who wanders into this site with a picture and a few words about his car!! Will it be considered "puffery" or fraud? I'm going into the john to stick my fingers down my throut now! I think we should open a new section called "The purists review", with a warning that the content will be full of guesses, suspicions, egos, and a ton of puffery. Enter at your own risk!!
This has nothing to do with being purist.
This has everything to do with outing some crumb who says he/she's selling something he/she ain't got - plain & simple. |
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| One more little tip is those door jamb "service" stickers, those are exactly like the ones mine had, the service was done at a small gas station in Mason W.Va where this car came from. I remember the Wolfe's Head stickers. It helped authenticate the mileage when I bought it. |
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| carjock - 2008-10-05 8:03 PM
God help the poor slob who wanders into this site with a picture and a few words about his car!! Will it be considered "puffery" or fraud? I'm going into the john to stick my fingers down my throut now! I think we should open a new section called "The purists review", with a warning that the content will be full of guesses, suspicions, egos, and a ton of puffery. Enter at your own risk!!
Pardon me, but I think you're missing the point, perhaps within the point, alot of what was posted on Ebay and previous about the car's history and authenticity are flat out wrong. I won't go as far as to say it was done purposely, but none the less, I'd be upset if I took that info and invested thousands of dolars on a car that was claimed to be one thing, and found out ohterwise.
I, like Neil, don't mind someone taking liberties in restorations (as we say in the late B body world, we're glad someone is restoring it, so what is it's not "stock", it could have a worse fate) to update/upgrade, but don't claim it "came that way new", when in fact it didn't. I still wonder what happened to that sweet running RedRam it had  |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Taking Jim Helm's comment at face value: what WOULD happen if someone came onto the website bragging about his newly purchased 1956 Fury convertible?
This would also apply to someone who may have purchased a 1959 Custom Royal D500 convertible, after having been informed that it had been restored to its original colors, interior, and dual carburetion?
Hey, it was just Puffery, Dude.......buyer beware, and all that.
Since this is a HYPOTHETICAL exercise, I believe that the diplomacy regarding the information on the validity of the car probably depends upon the expressed attitude of the new poster, regarding the subject car.
Paul Garlick, e.g., didn't actually make an appearance on the site, but he did invent a completely fictitious story regarding the provenance of his beautifully created 1961 Plodge.
Exner help the "poor slob" who might have paid big bucks for that car, thinking that it was truly a one-of-one Export car, to Mexico....
Edited by d500neil 2008-10-05 11:23 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | And, BTW, in Re: Garlick's 1961 Plodge, it almost made it onto the pages of "Hemmings Classic Car" (thanks to their having been contacted by another member of the FWDLK's Daily List Server, prior to that reference- article's publication; but, Garlick's Plodge DID, however get published in "MoPar Collector's Guide").
However, regarding Garlick's creation of another all-red 1961 D500 Polara convertible, which Mr. Garlick had stated was owned by a close associate, or business agent of Marilyn Monroe, that fake-car (originally a blue 361 Polara convertible) has had its provenance evolve into its having been OWNED by M. Monroe.
The car reportedly toured along with John Lennon's Bentley, as part of a "Cars of the Stars" program (altho I can not personally confirm that report).
BUT: that car has been sold several times, and it IS possible that a new owner of it might some day join the website (and want to discuss that car).
Probably, though, that car will end up at the B-J and/or be sold directly to a museum, regarding its being a "Celebrity Car".
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| LMAO! I'm beginning to worry when Neil actually sees my point! Just don't turn into a bunch of vigilantes--there are few things about car "provenance" that are black and white! I grew up with these cars and remember vividly visiting Dodge dealerships and witnessing them doing dual carb installations along with D500 badging, etc. (and lots of other alterations), just because a customer wanted it that way. Thus a brand new Super D500 could be "born" without the proper paperwork or data plate. Things were far from perfect or consistent in those days!! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | No, we don't quite agree, Jim; a Chrysler 300 (e.g.) is born, at the factory; it is not "created" at a dealership, or by
a customer (at the dealership, or not).
There are certainly no laws, moral, or legal, which govern a person's making a 1960 Chrysler 300F Pont-A-Mousson 4-speed transmission convertible out of a 1961 Saratoga sedan, but, there ARE certain applicable laws (which vary from state-to-state) which do involve criminal and civil penalties regarding a mis-representation OF that fake-car, when so advertised for sale, for personal gain, by deception.
Every car is "born" at the factory , not in the after-market.
If a person advertises that his car is a Fury, or a Super D500, or a D500, or an Adventurer, etc.,
and he knows that the car was not built as-advertised, he faces criminal and/or civil liability for such
mis-representation, when the car's buyer discovers the truth about the car's provenance.
"I, I, I didn't know, your honor, that lying to the car's buyer, about the car, was a CRIME!"
Edited by d500neil 2008-10-06 6:10 PM
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Location: Under the X in Texas | You've heard the term "provenance" bantered about in the hobby for the last few years, mostly on the televised auctions and now filtering into hobby discusions. I don't care what the person is claiming about their car's history. I want to see documentation starting at the factory and then backed up over the car's history. If it is a Chrysler product under discussion, I want to see that $45 response paperwork from Chrysler Historical as a foundation and then anything and everything available since that day one document. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You can't put a shine on a turd.
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| It is up to the buyer to do diligence--if he doesn't, shame on him. Shame on the seller for misrepresenting a car as well (I'm living with one of those right now), but a bunch of purist vigilanties cannot police the hobby. There will always be scams and there will always be a sucker born every minute. Look at the Cuda and Charger-type cars if you want to see fraud. That's why I no longer give a s**t about provenance--it takes the fun out of car ownership. Yes, big buck cars should be documented, but I'm in it for fun and my next car will be a resto-mod, screw whatever it was in the first place! Hope that doesn't offend any purists!! LMAO |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | So, in your mind a "Purist" is someone who is concerned that a particular car is being mis-represented as being something
that it never-was?
Lie cheat and/or steal, it's the buyer's fault for believing the seller?
Blame the victim.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Wayne, isn't your photo taken of that one-of-ONE special ordered 1958 Fury convertible, which was exported to Afganistan, and which was recently found in a barn, but, the seller is selling it for a friend, but that THIS is the most original 58 Fury convertible that the seller has ever seen, and has been told by everyone who has seen it, that this car shouldn't even EXIST any more ????
Edited by d500neil 2008-10-06 7:54 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ..And, Jim, how is the unfortunate prospective buyer (you know, the one who is in the process of being defrauded?)
supposed to find OUT about the history and provenance of that, or any car, if discussion websites do not exist, to reveal
what makes a Bonneville a real Bonnie??? |
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| The number of high dollar special performance cars being made up is ridiculous. Thats what pushed Darrell Davis to start putting out reference guides with actual vin#s to show whats real. I say, put the facts out there on whats real. Nothing wrong with clones or customs, but don't try to pass them off as factory built with every option. |
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| Neil, ol' buddy, ol' pal, I would expect that a buyer of anything that carries a significant cost to be smart enough to engage whatever resources were necessary to insure that he was buying what was being advertised. Remember, a lot of folks have money and don't care about a car's past. Others see them as an investment, and insures that everything is correct. There are appraisers, guys like Galen Govier, and many sources for info on cars. I call it due diligence, and typically I wouldn't think of a website like this as an authority on any car's provenance because there are so many opinions, recollections, maybe's, "I think's" involved in what is said here. For what you are trying to do (which is admirable, I guess), it really requires an "on the car" inspection with an expert to point out what's right and what's wrong. Documentation helps, but being from the 50's, it is not always accurate. Again, I have been through all of this many times, and it just doesn't matter to me anymore--everybody gets their panties in a twist over it and it takes all the fun out of owning and driving these cars! |
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Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | I read about two post's in this thread before I quit. Jock nailed it when he said "everybody gets their panties in a twist over it and it takes all the fun out of owning and driving these cars!"
Why be a purist?
Why be a Rodder?
What does it matter?
We are talking about car's......CAR'S. I love 'em as much as the next one of us but why not enjoy 'em?
A long time ago I got a PM from a member here asking me why I would be so stupid to change my 57 Savoy with Belvedere option's and rare stock color's to a christine?
Who would ask somebody that?!!!! My responce was that I would not have cared if my car had been a fury she would still look like she does now. Because that is what "I" wanted. I wouldn't have had hardly any fun from her as a stock car.
90% of my customer's and people I talk to all say the same thing "I just want to be able to drive it without worry" or "as long as it looks good and I can have fun with it" Stock car's are great and I look forward to one I have down for next summer where it HAS to be 100% as the day it was new. The part I don't look forward to is re-creating the factory f-ckup's.
Back to your thread guy's but my 2* is "why not just have fun with 'em. I'm going back to the basement with the vermin. 
Edited by 58Donnie 2008-10-07 9:09 AM
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Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | 58Donnie - 2008-10-07 6:07 AM
I read about two post's in this thread before I quit. Jock nailed it when he said "everybody gets their panties in a twist over it and it takes all the fun out of owning and driving these cars!"
Why be a purist?
Why be a Rodder?
What does it matter?
We are talking about car's......CAR'S. I love 'em as much as the next one of us but why not enjoy 'em?
A long time ago I got a PM from a member here asking me why I would be so stupid to change my 57 Savoy with Belvedere option's and rare stock color's to a christine?
Who would ask somebody that?!!!! My responce was that I would not have cared if my car had been a fury she would still look like she does now. Because that is what "I" wanted. I wouldn't have had hardly any fun from her as a stock car.
90% of my customer's and people I talk to all say the same thing "I just want to be able to drive it without worry" or "as long as it looks good and I can have fun with it" Stock car's are great and I look forward to one I have down for next summer where it HAS to be 100% as the day it was new. The part I don't look forward to is re-creating the factory f-ckup's.
Back to your thread guy's but my 2* is "why not just have fun with 'em. I'm going back to the basement with the vermin. :cool:
So Donnie - if you were to SELL it, would you pass it off as a Fury or tell the truth?
That's what it's all about, not whether it's provinence is correct. Sell whatever the hell you want, but don't lie about what it is in the process.
If it's YOUR car, it's YOUR business to do whatever the hell you want to it. But, when you're SELLING one, be accurate |
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Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | Oh yea, If I were to sell mine now I would list it as a 57 to 58 Christine clone. What she is. If she had been a fury I would list her the same with the note that she is a fury but don't look the part.
I just get tired of the purist vs. the rodder squibble. It's pointless. |
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Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | 58Donnie - 2008-10-07 6:28 AM
Oh yea, If I were to sell mine now I would list it as a 57 to 58 Christine clone. What she is. If she had been a fury I would list her the same with the note that she is a fury but don't look the part.
I just get tired of the purist vs. the rodder squibble. It's pointless.
Bingo - that was the whole point.
The seller of the '57 Dodge in question tried to pass it off as an ORIGINAL Super D-500 when all it is is a plain jane Coronet with a hemi thrown into it and badges slapped on - and he/she got their a$$ shown to the whole world because they tried to pull a fast one (pun not intended). It had absolutely nothing to do with reaming the seller for not keeping it original, but everything to do with outing a bold-faced liar.
That said, agreed on the purist vs. rod "debate" - to each their own. We all pour piles of money into our cars (I havent in a while, but I did with my '57 Lincoln - during a time when I actually HAD money  ) and deserve to enjoy them however we see fit - although I'll never give up my disdain for trailer queens. 
Edited by 1955Coronado 2008-10-07 9:41 AM
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Location: NY & VT | Put simply: it isn't a purist vs rodder squabble, it's about truth in advertising. |
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Location: Snohomish, WA. | Caveat Emptor, anyone? Doesn't anyone shoulder any personal responsibility anymore? Bad on the guy for attempting to pass the car off as something it wasn't, but if he wants to try it, big deal.
Bad on any buyer who was motivated to buy purely because they thought it was as advertised w/o sending a qualified inspector first.
But MAYBE you guys screwed a perfectly good buyer of an oportunity to buy a nice car he really liked, that already had the engine he was looking to put into it himself, that couldn't have cared LESS what color the hood latch was painted, and now has lost his opportunity because a bunch of guys who have probably
play the Forward Look version of Trivial Pursuit amongst themselves every day instead of actually doing constructive things that promote the FL era, have chased the seller off. We could'a had a new member maybe.
Donnie might'a had a new customer, maybe. Another piece of crap non-D500 is another piece of crap non-D500. What a surprise.
Ever think of that??:-)
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Location: NY & VT | Sorry, but that doesn't absolve the seller of the obligation of telling the truth. |
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| Yippee! Ain't this fun? I'm afraid "truth in advertising" has gone the way of slide rules and straight razors!! Cain't trust anyone anymore, so Caveat Emptor indeed! |
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Location: Lemoore CA | I don't look at numbers and codes, because I don't care about numbers and codes. Having said that, none of the cars I have bought sight unseen have been as good as they were advertised to be with the exception of one 57 Plymouth. You guys aren't saving anyone from buying a bum car, If anyone is going to drop the kind of money it will take to buy a real or advertised as real d500, Adventurer, Fury, 300 or anything like that, they are going to check the car out themselves, not listen to some maybes and might bees from some people on a discussion board who don't even have the car in front of them. I have received inaccurate tech info and who knows what else on boards before, I certainly am not going to just take someones word on the internet, nor do I believe anyone thinking about spending a significant amount will either. The "outing" of bad sellers just seems like a cover to pick cars apart for fun. And no I don't support false advertising, I just don't think that the claim of saving a buyer from a bad decision is legitimate. |
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Location: Snohomish, WA. | The Supreme court said politicians don't have to tell the truth anymore in campaign advertising (remember the old "Truth in Advertising days?), so why are you trying to apply a higher standard to the public et al?
He's prob'ly just as good a guy as your typical politician, and if they can line their bed with others feathers and not be held accountable, why are you so earnest in trying to make one guy shoulder more responsibility than your illustrious leaders?
Just try and think of this poor guy as a politician instead of a poor loser trying to make a quick buck on his non-D500 piece of crap. It'll be easier that way for you to forgive him.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Whatever this discussion is about, it is NOT about "Purist -vs- Rodder"---THAT is an insult, or disingenuity at the very least.
We are talking about someone who was consciously (or not) mis-representing the originality, and therefore, the purported
value of his car.
If someone places his car onto a public site for its sale, it is fair game for discussion as to its value, and its validity, in regards
to the way that it is being described and presented, for its sale.
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Location: Lemoore CA | d500neil - 2008-10-07 7:45 PM
Whatever this discussion is about, it is NOT about "Purist -vs- Rodder"---THAT is an insult, or disingenuity at the very least.
We are talking about someone who was consciously (or not) mis-representing the originality, and therefore, the purported
value of his car.
If someone places his car onto a public site for its sale, it is fair game for discussion as to its value, and its validity, in regards
to the way that it is being described and presented, for its sale.
And this right here is finally the truth, plain and simple, not thinly disguised as preventing some poor soul from spending thousands on a fake car. |
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Location: Snohomish, WA. | Hey, Neil............ any car is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. It might be listed in someones book at some price, but it's only gonna bring what its gonna bring.
Apparently YOU weren't willing to pay him for the car, but others were. It's really none of your business when you get right down to it, since you were no part of any deal going on. There really is no "Accuracy Police" Force Neil. It only matters in your world, not so muich in the rest of the world.
Mike
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Location: At "The Rock" in upper East Tennessee | How about this? Let's say I come up on a car I have always wanted, For example a 71 Hemi 'Cuda coupe. It's listed as a numbers matching car with all original stuff. In my case none of that matters to me just the fact that 1. It's a 71 'Cuda, 2. It's a Hemi, 3. it's at a price I can afford.
I start getting messages from people telling me how "fake" it is or how wrong it is and for whatever reason this put's a bad enough taste in my mouth I pass.
Then I hve missed out on a car that I would have loved if it was real or not.
Now, what if someone watching this car knew fair and well that it was a fake and was hoping that by it being one he might get a good deal on it.
I reckon that if a car being 100% pure is something that matter's to a buyer then it is up to him to make sure he buy's what he want's.
If someone doesn't care then let it be. It's a buyer beware world we live in.....so be it.
If I insulted anyone I guess all I can say is "Life is filled with little dissapointment's" |
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Expert
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | You make some good points Donnie. Especially if the car is not priced like it was an all original. Naturally, many of us
don't like to see anybody try to pull a fast one either---We all respect your reputation and we don't need a police force to watch over you.
We have seen several examples of people that don't do business like you do.---Witness the "D500 59 Dodge" that was relisted on Ebay and then even that sale fell thru, and now this D501.
So one wonders if there isn't a "Happy Medium", here somewhere?
It is certainly worthwhile to have the resources here and other places when you are trying to decide whether to buy a certain car or not----Perhaps , all that was needed in the case was the user that said, "That car has an 18 year history, a history that disproves it was an original D501.
Like you, I do think it is possible to discourage somebody from buying a car by excessive nickpicking,and especially if none of the good points are brought out about the car. I Still remember my Welcome here, when I first came on and put up a few pics of my 59 Dodge which I mistakenly called a Custom Royal---as the seller had converted it---(I didn't know all the rules yet-----Thou Shaln't call thy car by any other name than what the factory called it!!!
So of course, we heard remarks such as "The car Speaks for Itself----Sort of, Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck" I was bout ready to trade it in for a 57 Chebbie------Of course I am being a bit "Facitious" just trying to show both sides of the story.
Sooooo, again thanks for all the good imfo here---maybe work on our delivery of said info a bit????
But Most important thing We all Love the same things---The greatest cars in the World LET'S BE KIND TO EACH OTHER!!!!!!!
Gary |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | There was a turquoise and black 57 Dodge D500 convertible sold at the b-J, this, year, for $75K.
I was not aware of its provenance, and the car was not ever posted on our Craigslist board.
Turns out, the UN-happy buyer discovered, post-auction, that that car has a Paint/trim data plate pertaining
to a 57 D500 convertible, but in a different paint scheme (the car also had the 57 CRL hardtop interior, and
not the convertible interior installed , and, who-knows what else was wrong with it?).
The "kicker" is that the car's VIN is from a 57 CORONET 2-dr HT (as confirmed via the factory's IBM card-copy that
the buyer procured).
The buyer (and the guy who he hired to try to get the car running, at-all) discovered that the body had been chopped up
and butchered, in creating' the "Custom Royal convertible."
As I understand it, Tom White will be taking that 'car' to Hershey, to try to get back as much of the buyer's, who is Tom's client, 'investment', as possible.
Tom WILL be disclosing the known defects on the car, to all interested buyers.
So, what WERE we saying about a potential buyer's interest in knowing whether a particular car is real, or not?
And, "YOU" can pay whatever you want to, for anything; as long as we have a Craigslist board, and the Moderators permit
such evaluation, I will be providing my own observations on 56-61 Dodges that are listed there, for sale.
Edited by d500neil 2008-10-08 7:05 PM
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Account Inactive by Request
Posts: 1601
| Oh, Neil, what a guy! I will definitely sleep better now. I'll bet every bidder at BJ auctions checks websites like this before they go-a biddin'! It's still Caveat Emptor! I don't like to see anyone get "taken", but it happens. And you, despite your fanaticism about it, are not going to do much to stop it!! But do keep on expressing your opinions, I do enjoy them! |
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Expert
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | Boy, a chop job. I would have to admit, that would not have made my day had I bought my convertible only to find out it was a chopped hardtop. I got lucky , as I did not know about the forward look at the time I purchased the car. Vin Numbers didnt mean anything to me as I didnt know how to read them.
A freind of my, in fact 2 of them, looked the car over pretty carefully before I bought it.
Perhaps one of them would have spotted a chop job had there been one.
Soooo, as I said earlier, we do have a lotta worthwhile info here , on the forward look.
Certainly most ppl would want to know if they are buying a "Real convertible" or a "Real D500 if their is a premium price being charged for the D500.
As I said I tend to agree with the points Donnie made too---so the car is painted--big deal, maybe like mine , it has been "Upgraded" so one could say it doesnt have the correct interior now, or the correct trim----well to me that's carrying things a bit too far!!!!
Car is not for sale, put it along Börje's Real one, and tell me the difference as far as trim and other Custom Royal Goddies go.
I like the car "As is", Not to run down the Coronet or the Royal, I just like the trim and look of the Custom Royal better---so I am glad the seller used a Custom Royal Doner car to rebuild mine-----It's just trim----so why go on and on etc etc about my car's provinence???
or somebbody's like mine????
You do a real service when you prevent the someone paying D500 prices for a car that as not---sure give the guy a lil extra for the engine---but don't price it like a factory one.
Likewise, except ya missed this one, a great service is done, pointing out a phony convertible.
After all this yaking, I'm just saying "Seek Middle Ground"
Gary
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Location: Lemoore CA | I'd just like to see some proof that anyone has been saved from a bum deal by the opinions expressed on this board. Let's think about this for a second, if a seller can lie or mislead, intentionally or not ,a potential buyer, and the buyer also does not personally know the current "expert" of the week on this site, what makes anyone think that the experts opinion will be taken as any more valid than the sellers description? Didn't we have a whole thread a while back about people who come up to you when you have your forward look in a parking lot and then proceed to tell you all about your car or one they had, and most if not all of their information is wrong and sometimes just plain old made up? What would give a potential buyer any more confidence in the "experts" here? I don't believe any of you guys have written books(If I'm wrong I apologize) and if a potential buyer does happen to know any of you through the W.P.C. or an organization of the like, I am sure they are savvy enough to research the car in question on their own. |
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Member
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| Going back to my original car, and original subject of the thread, I remember my car having a poweflite, I"m wondering if, for conversation's sake, if a Sooper D500 came with powerflite auto.? This (my car) had a powerflite, and I wonder if it was changed to a t-flite? Hmmm
Just sticking that in for further discussion  |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The D500 was supposed to come with either a manual or T/Flite 3-spd trannie.
But, since almost nothing was impossible (Kiekaefer ordered his D501 Coronet in a hardtop body and built on a convertible frame) there could have been some D5's built (by mistake or by special order) with the P/Flite trannie; the P/Flite was just not recommended.
When you ordered a 501, which was "supposed" to be available only with the manual trannie, or any manual transmission, you did have to get manual steering, as there physically was not enough room to install the P/S gearbox, within the engine compartment.
Again, to confirm the OEM existence of any unusual equipment on your car, you will need to buy, and to understand the information-codes, as shown on your car's factory IBM build card.
It is your car's birth certificate, and pedigree.
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Account Suspended (Steve Hobby / Leaburn Patey Alias)
Posts: 18
| I would like to thank Bill (Former57Dodger) for shedding light on this car.
Boys,things are getting nasty,let's all lighten up,eh?
Let's get back on topic-where are the moderators in here??
Our buddy Earl is at it again trying to sell Bill's old car and again misrepresenting the car's pedigree and not telling its history.This time he KNOWS the history of the car.How? I called him,and others reported his original listing to E bay.
Maybe Bill can call Mr.Earl to let him know a thing or two about the car.
He needs to be outed again before somebody gets taken.
It is a nice car that can has been slightly modified,but let's make sure the potential buyers are aware of it..
FYI,Earl bought it for 12 grand.His "clients" are himself.
Read closely into his feedback.Despite the 100% rating,the explanations are horrid feedback.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___1957-DODGE-CORONET-D50...
Edited by canuckfins 2008-10-12 2:10 PM
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Account Suspended (Steve Hobby / Leaburn Patey Alias)
Posts: 18
| One of my forum members was going to buy the same car but Mr.Earl bought it out from under him
Read on:
http://moparfins/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1702 |
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Account Inactive by Request
Posts: 1601
| Wretch and puke!! Who cares--this car has been whipped to death. You guys need to find another outlet for your "do gooder" mentality. You are not "outing" anyone--the sales will happen despite your fanaticism on this topic. God help the poor bas***d who actually has a decent and honest car for sale that happens to get "found" by this site. YOU ARE NOT THE POLICE!! |
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'57 Dodge D501?
