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Expert
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Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden |
I think I have see some pics at this DeSoto before at this site Forward Look
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/desoto/unspecified/...
1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"This 1 of 1 is the best DeSoto on the planet! The first 1958 DeSoto fi conv ever built! Only 1 of 5 ever produced, three known to exist! The only one that still retains its original fuel injection. From the Bill & Suzanne Turner Collection. SELLING AT NO RESERVE. Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Collector Car Public Auction, January 2, 3 & 4, 2009. For more infor, call Mike Flynn Jr. 800-237-8954.
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Posts: 13050
 
Location: Southern Sweden - Sturkö island | Aarggh - that is a rare car - yes there was a post about it Jocke! Even at "no reserve", I bet this will rocket to sky high price. |
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Expert
Posts: 1918
Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | Yep - a trailer queen if there ever was one. It's a virtual rolling museum..... |
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Location: The Mile High City | Interesting, I thought this car was owned and restored by a man named Tom White. There are many articles about the car. There is a strong argument that this is the best DeSoto on the planet and perhaps the greatest Forward Look car too, since it may be the only one with a working electronic fuel injection unit. At any rate, it could be worth upwards of $35,000!  |
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Location: The Mile High City | I wonder where the other two existing cars are (obviously they do not have the e.f.i. intact)? Even better, I wonder where the other two they don't know about are? Probably made into manhole covers long ago... |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7207
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Lancer Mike - 2008-10-02 10:17 AM Interesting, I thought this car was owned and restored by a man named Tom White. There are many articles about the car. There is a strong argument that this is the best DeSoto on the planet and perhaps the greatest Forward Look car too, since it may be the only one with a working electronic fuel injection unit. At any rate, it could be worth upwards of $35,000! :laugh: Tom White's car is a White and gold version, and has been discussed a coupla times on the forum. This gold one purports to be all original Fuelie, so I wonder how well this one runs as the EFI units were completely unstable when running hot etc, and unreliable, which is why they were all recalled. The setup in Tom White's car was actually rebuilt using, I believe some more modern technology that would allow it to function properly. Someone try and find the original post on it ?
Edited by imopar380 2008-10-02 3:33 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Ian: I think Tom White's car is just like this one as far as color scheme goes http://www.chrysler300club.com/jhstuff/fuelie/fuelie.html I would be surprised if this car at auction isn't one and the same... |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | Lancer Mike - 2008-10-02 6:17 PM
At any rate, it could be worth upwards of $35,000! :laugh:
Mike , I think you may of Missed a Digit Out,,, ??????????????????????????? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Aw, heck Clive - I think it is worth a lot more than $3,500! $35,000 is a whole pile of cash these days! I was trying to figure if it is worth $35,000 dollars worth of $50 one-ounce gold coins. However, at today's close of $831.90 per ounce, I still don't think $582,330 would cover it!
What I can't figure out is why this isn't being auctioned at Barrett-Jackson or Sotheby's or some super-big time auction that brings in the crazy bids.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2008-10-02 6:20 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Maybe this isn't Tom White's. Could there really be another??? If so, they haven't heard of Tom White's car, because they say this is the only one running the e.f.i. Can't be! This must be White's! |
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Posts: 2996
Location: Sept. 1958 | It is White's. I had heard he sold this car just recently. His car was the first Adventurer Convertible built. According to White, there's only 5 58 Adv. Conv. left, but in Dennis Adler's "Fifties Flashback The American Car", he states there are 11 known out of the 82 built on page 93.
Matt Dorschug |
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Expert 5K+
Posts: 7207
Location: Victoria, BC, on Vancouver Island, Canada | Yeah, I must've had a brain lapse going on there..... |
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Location: Minneapolis | So is this or isnt this White's completely OVER-restored trailer queen?
Terrible market conditions to sell something like this. |
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Posts: 1302
Location: Skaneateles,NY(summer)/Port St.Lucie,FL(winter) | There's one at the DeSoto National Convention every year, and it isn't this one. It's is about the same condition, too... |
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Location: The Mile High City | Tony, is the one at the national convention an electronic fuel injection Adventurer convertible? I suppose another Adventurer convertible would be rare enough, but I thought there was only one car with a running bendix e.f.i. unit. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I know a person who may have three F.I. set-ups, with at least one of them being set up and operable, in a 300D, and with the other two units being complete assemblies.
I also kinda-recall that there may be at least one other fuelie unit that exists, which may not be installed in a car.
The 300D's had "Fuel Injection" embossed into their '300' emblems; all the other models, I think, shared the Kool "Fuel
Injection" chromed pot metal emblem, as is seen on the Adventurers.
On Dodges, that emblem reportedly was installed at the end of the quarter panel side molding---a very good location for
that emblem.
Edited by d500neil 2008-10-03 4:02 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | According to Colin Comer's article, there were 35 Bendix Electrojectors fitted to Chrysler Corporation products in 1958. All were recalled. Only one DeSoto equipped with it's original Electrojector is preported to survive. http://www.colinsclassicauto.com/domestic_affairs_0709.pdf From what I remember of Tom White's car, he bought the Adventurer, which had the Electrojector removed, then found an Electrojector in the estate of a former Chrysler executive or engineer. He bought the Electrojector and refurbished it with modern componentry. Any other operable Electrojector is a big news event! |
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Location: ct. | This is Tom White's former car as he sold it to a collector in Florida about 4 months ago. Apparently the collector is now selling it through an auction co. I wouldn't be surprised if it approaches one million dollars, although the timing may be bad due to the country's poor economic condition. |
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Posts: 2721
Location: Minneapolis | The timing is more than bad, its HORRIBLE. The market has been soft for a couple years now. The economy is bad and isnt really what would support a million dollar FL. Either the new buyer lost a ton on Wall Street and needs the cabbage or he just doesnt know anything about flipping cars. Half million, MAYBE. |
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Expert ,, George Passed away July 28th 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1295
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Did you mean to say upwards of $350,000 ??? |
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Expert ,, George Passed away July 28th 2021, He will be Missed
Posts: 1295
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Neil....
I am quite sure that car is a couple years away from being on the road and running. I saw it last fall in MT, where it is being restored and it wasn't even going to be media blasted until this spring or summer. It is Vin #1 and is a white car.
George
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Location: The Mile High City | Sorry, George - my jokes don't come over very well on the internet. I don't know what it will fetch, but like others have said, this is not the best time to sell. I would be surprised if it sold for more than $500,000. Has anyone ever heard of that auction house? |
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Location: Minneapolis | Thats another thing... the auction house. Is it in the high school gym? I am not a big auction guy (NOT in-the-know), but I aint NEVER heard of 'em! |
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Posts: 1302
Location: Skaneateles,NY(summer)/Port St.Lucie,FL(winter) | LancerMike,
The car that I spoke of is a 100% pristine runner...Concours condition... |
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Inactive by Request
Posts: 1292
Location: Lovely place | $500,000... Well, the DeSoto is really worth it if it comes with full tank of gas...  |
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Posts: 1918
Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | Sisu - 2008-10-06 12:29 AM
$500,000... Well, the DeSoto is really worth it if it comes with full tank of gas... ;)
That's only if it's going to be driven, not trailered..... |
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Location: The Mile High City | Who knows? I have a new theory that with the current credit crunch, economic meltdown, and energy crisis, we might see a bunch of these high-and-mighty cars on the block at bargain basement prices.
You want a '58 fuelie, there is one here. You want a '58 D convertible, you got it. I have never seen so many 300 G's for sale. This Adventurer auction might be a way for someone to pick up this one-of-a-kind pretty cheap. No reserve, remember.
$500,000? I might be out of touch with current market conditions. Given today's stock market freefall, the seller might be darn thankful to get $150,000. Tomorrow, that could be $100,000! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The general price of the E-Bodied Hemi cars has stabilized, or come down, the past several seasons.
The G's are coming out of the woodwork, enticed by the prospects of big bucks.
It might be too-late, now, to get the huge-bucks, on a car, but, maybe better-now-than-later (while on a recessionary
decline). Cash is KING, right now.
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Location: Parts Unknown | Where did the "pilot car" bit come from ? Is this car actually coded "pilot" instead of having a SCH code ? I spoke with Tom at some length about this car before he had confirmed it was a real F/I car. This was before he had done anything with it beyond dragging it home. He had a lot of ideas and hopes and went into great detail of how he hoped to rebuild it as an F/I car using the scattered parts inventory that occasionally came up for sale. I know the story about how he found the F/I set up he came to restore and build the electronic shielding for that he said was the original failing of these systems .....
... but I do not recall him mentioning anything about it being a pilot car. Where did this idea it is a pilot car come from ? I would think he would have mentioned it.
I find it hard to believe he sold that car. The new owner sure didn't hold on to it very long ! What's up with that ???? |
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Posts: 1302
Location: Skaneateles,NY(summer)/Port St.Lucie,FL(winter) | New owner either couldn't afford it, or GREED rears it's ugly head... |
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Posts: 6203
Location: Big pimpin' | When a car is that valuable......NOBODY cares about the car itself, only what it "Will bring".....AKA: GREED! |
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Posts: 3155
Location: NY & VT | It was Tom that brought the car to the conventions, before he sold it, and it was/is an awesome runner, since he updated the leaky capacitors in the ElectroJector unit with modern polypropylene ones and revised some of the circuitry and shielding also I am told. He was interviewed about this in some detail. The car also accelerates very slightly faster than a carb-ed model supposedly.
Edited by firedome 2008-10-07 1:32 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | If the motivation for selling this car is strictly opportunistic greed, the Ft. Lauderdale Collector Car Public Auction seems to be a most unusual choice. Throw in the fact that this truly fantastic car has no reserve and something is amiss. I wonder if the Turner's may have gone bankrupt or had their assets seized? But that doesn't make much sense because Florida has the strongest bankruptcy protection of any state! I don't know what is going on here, but my eyes will be on this auction come January 2, 2009! Could this car go for a song?
Edited by Lancer Mike 2008-10-07 4:58 PM
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Posts: 2721
Location: Minneapolis | A song like "Can't Touch This"?
Yeah, the timing, the venue, everything, just seems amiss. I wouldnt be surprised if it gets pulled. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Ha! Well, maybe going broke in Florida they would say "ok, mansion is protected but you have to sell either the car collection or the yacht, we can't protect them both." Doc, you have to suspend your campaign on the garage and get out to Florida in January (to hammer out a solution to this crisis). If you can pick up Tom's Superventurer for the same price as finishing the garage, you are going to be joining us on the cruise sooner than we thought - and what a ride you will have!
All this electrojector mumbo jumbo glosses over the real deal here: this car has a benrus clock and a hiwayhifi!!!  |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Heck, .... mine has a Benrus too !
You know, what I'd really like best about this car would be the opportunity to drive it in a place where it could really be cut loose. My Fireflite was a decent performer. My 56 Adventurer was also. My Coronet with the 440 is a serious barn burner. I would like to see how this Electrojector stacks up just for the experience. Tom's car is stunning and the F/I is the ultimate accessory. I would still take a Fireflite over an Adverturer just on paint and interior points alone. I like the pastel colors far more than I like the "performance" image. Besides, a name like "Fireflite" has it ALL OVER "Adventurer". Wasn't that a truck at one point ?  |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Brent, as seen in my Tulsarama pics, last Jun/07, highway #40 was not only a wide-open divided roadway,
with beautiful views, it was NOT heavily traveled, and I didn't see a whole lot of cops, anywhere on it, from CA to Tulsa!
Put the top down, and hang on! Hours of wide-open Western vistas!
That's where I'd like to drive that car. Somewhere west of Laramie!
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Location: The Mile High City | Only about a month to go on this one. Doc, are you heading out to Ft. Lauderdale? They have kept up the advertising blitz in Hemmings at least. I will be anxious to see what happens. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | The ground finally froze solid today, so the shovels are getting put away. I guess I have nothing better to do, right ? Now, where did I leave that suitcase full of green rectangles ? |
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Location: The Mile High City | How mucho, Muchacho? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Boy, that is a strange deal. I sent an e-mail to the Hollywood Wheels auction house inquiring about the results and no reply yet. I checked the web-site for Hollywood Wheels and they are not like other big auction house websites - no results page. If you were the owner of this car and went to auction of your own free will, why in the world would you not go with Barrett-Jackson, RM, Kruse, Southebys, or some large corporate auction house?
Do any of the Florida members know what happened?
Update: I just talked to a lady at Hollywood Wheels and they just drove in (to? from?) St. Petersburg, so she will get the results to me in the next few days. It almost sounds like a mom-and-pop operation!
Edited by Lancer Mike 2009-01-06 3:10 PM
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | It was 55 degrees F, this morning @ 8AM'sville; 63 @ noon; dunno what the high temp was.
Brent, IIRC, the "Pilot Car" reference is to when the car was built, around August (maybe earlier), I think; as I seem to recall, the
Fuelie cars may have been built before the model year's general production run was commenced.
I'm too lazy/un-interested in going back and researching the car's build date.
Anyone here, know when it was built?
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Location: DFW, TX | I thought ALL the Bendix-injected '58 Mopars were considered "pilot cars." I'm fairly certain I've read that they were all super-early units and possibly hand-assembled off the line.
When they found out they didn't run worth a crap, they pulled them off the street and discontinued the option. Wouldn't that define a "pilot" program? |
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Location: Parts Unknown |
I say this as I learned it from 60's vintage GM cars ..... you can actually find data tags that list the build date code as "pilot". As it was explained to me, this meant the car was one of a possible few that were put together just as a test run to see if all the theory and parts actually bolted together OK before they started full-on production.
Most "pilot" cars did not bolt together well enough to be sold and were broken down or scrapped.
The 58 Adventurer did not come onto the production line until January of 1958 and were not available to the public until February, if memory serves. This puts them 180 degrees out of time with production start up for model year cars.
I have never heard of the term "pilot" applied to anything but the few, very rare cars that actually made it into the sales fleet and left the factory. These are clearly marked as such on the data tag.
I have never heard of ANY Mopar, let alone a Forward Look Mopar, that bears the "pilot" car designation on its data tag.
Could they exist ? I suppose. I am no expert. Just an old dog who knew a few oldtimers who showed and told me a few things.
As "pilot" car was defined to me - and I have personally seen these tags - this Adventurer does not fit the definition.
Any 58 Adventurer is the final word in rare DeSoto. Add in ragtop and it goes exponential from there. Fuel Injection ?
What can a person say but "Wow!" ?
I would sure like to see / hear / read the explanation / claim that supports this being a "pilot" car.
As it is, I'll just take it as a "plain old run-of-the-mill, bread-n-butter, garden variety" 58 Adventurer convertible with fuel injection !!!! |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | The first few cars of any new production are always "pilot" vehicles. Whether that is because it is the startup of the model year or a particular model or a major engineering package it takes a few "pilot" assemblies to get the thing going and steer the whole group forward into smooth running production. For example with the '57 Chrysler 300Cs which I have particular knowledge about, two pilot cars were built in September of '56, one car in October of '56, then there were NONE built in November so they apparently had some issues to work out!!!. December saw cars number four through fifty four built so one has to presume we are past pilot cars somewhere early in that month. Would it be legitimate to say that all the fuel injection '58 Mopars were pilot cars? I don't know if delivering almost two dozen 300Ds would qualify but the handful from each of the other marques certainly could. But until the advertising came out for THIS car for THIS auction, I had never seen the word pilot attached to any EFI '58 Mopar previously so the whole thing from that aspect is very suspect as being promotional unless they have some documentation to back it up. |
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Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | I remember reading years ago that there were approximately 35 or so MoPar fuelies for '58 - I wonder if any Dodges or Plymouths were so fitted? |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | When I first joined this group approx 9 years ago there was a fellow who had found a '58 Dodge in a gully and inquired of the list whether it was worth digging out because it was supposed to be an EFI car. We all discussed it with him and he VERIFIED the EFI was STILL ON THE CAR. So YES INDEED there is an EFI Dodge out there. Anyone remember the guys name or location? Oh, yeah, he did buy it and brought it home and started cleaning it up but I think he dropped out of sight within a year as I recall. Maybe we should check the consignment list for Barrett-Jackson??? |
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Posts: 1918
Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | Found in a gully? Wow - talk about right place/right time.
Yeah, if the book I read the '58 fuelie production estimate in named how many in each make, I've completely forgotten (hell, I can't even remember the book other than it was a hardcover - I must've been just 13-14-15 years old at the time), but I do remember that the pic shown as a fuelie example above the essay pretty much matches Tom White's '58 Adventurer above and that it stated the approx. 35 fuelie MoPars, so I assumed the fuelies were available all up & down the FL line, just hadn't seen any Dodges or Plymouths (hadn't seen any Chryslers so equipped until I joined here in June, 2007) yet.
You remember if it was a hardtop, ragtop or sedan, Wayne? Cool as hell if it's a 4 door sedan, as I love little oddities like that. I remember reading about the first year Olds made the 442 available - in 1965, when it was Olds' version of the D-500 (option for the Cutlass rather than model itself), there were indeed 211 1965 Olds 442 4 door sedans made that intro year! |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | As I recall the car was a two door hardtop in the gully. Hey, I went through my EFI file and found a couple of interesting things. One is a hnadwritten note on a photo copy of a many page factory brochure listing production. It says: 35 Chrysler 300s, 12 Dodges, 5 DeSotos, 2 Plymouths, 54 (Total) I don't know who wrote it so take it for whatever it is worth because not even the Chrysler number corresponds with what is in the production records that the 300 Intl Club has in their hands. Okay? |
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Posts: 2596
Location: Upplands Väsby, Sweden | I copy some pics from Actions site.
Looks like someone has changed welded at X frame? or.....
Have not seen this connection before I can remember.
Delicious car
Edited by Windsor59 2009-01-09 1:42 AM
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1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"
Forward Look Swap Meet -> For Sale - EBAY, CRAIGSLIST & OTHER FINDS
