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1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"
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Finsinthemirror
Posted 2010-07-08 5:19 PM (#231681 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Jay Leno is out "driving" one of the few surviving Turbine cars.. I tend to agree with Doc here. This stuff shouldn't be reserved only for the top paying bidder who can afford it, that's retarded. There is no way in the world I believe cars like this weren't stuffed away in dark cold garages. I don't view any car as worth that not even a 1 of 1.
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d500neil
Posted 2010-07-08 8:26 PM (#231707 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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LOL....all that time/money/sweat/tears spent in restoring this car, and someone decided to paint-over the
asphaltic trunk sound deadener panels, rather than to replace them with proper panels, or, to (re-)paint
them (very difficult to do, btw) to replicate their proper OEM appearance.

Bet that those panels swallowed up a whole-bunch of gold paint, before they acquired their uniformly-gold color!





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1960DesotoAdventurer
Posted 2010-07-08 9:46 PM (#231715 - in reply to #158374)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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57burb - 2009-01-09 5:58 PM

I've got a really dumb question. Can you get those EFI badges from the aftermarket?


Maybe moparmel makes them!
I know he's on eBay selling repro forward look emblems for fury back seats!
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christine-lover
Posted 2010-07-08 9:50 PM (#231716 - in reply to #231707)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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d500neil - 2010-07-08 8:26 PM

LOL....all that time/money/sweat/tears spent in restoring this car, and someone decided to paint-over the
asphaltic trunk sound deadener panels, rather than to replace them with proper panels, or, to (re-)paint
them (very difficult to do, btw) to replicate their proper OEM appearance.

Bet that those panels swallowed up a whole-bunch of gold paint, before they acquired their uniformly-gold color!





Do you mean the trunk lid insulation??? If so, what color should it be? I know.
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1960DesotoAdventurer
Posted 2010-07-08 10:28 PM (#231721 - in reply to #160068)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Doctor DeSoto - 2009-01-23 1:35 AM


This is what happens when the dollar value exceeds the value of the machine as a car .... it ceases to be a car and becomes something of a paperweight.

I did Buicks before I discovered Mopar and ultimately settled on DeSoto. My Buicks (58-59-60) were pretty cool cars in their own right, but tell someone you drive a Buick and there is no response. Tell them you drive a DeSoto and the reaction is immediate.

Besides having a few really great cars, the name itself was a major attraction for me.


I agree,I love seeing these cars being driven and enjoyed.
To me that's the ultimate "car show" seeing a set of fins sweep by an jet away into the distance.
I love driving a Forward Look car as a daily driver and am glad it's still possible to get deals out there.

I love those 1959 Buicks too! To me that's the closest generic motors ever got to Exners designs.
You're lucky to have a DeSoto convertible,I love the sweep of the fins and the way the whole rear end bumper And tailights design is integrated.
So much thought and imagination was put into the cars!
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1960DesotoAdventurer
Posted 2010-07-08 10:36 PM (#231723 - in reply to #158872)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Doctor DeSoto - 2009-01-13 11:52 PM

57burb - 2009-01-14 7:57 AM

Brent, do you have a gold star for one that you would consider selling? :)


Danny - I am with you, .... these rank right up there with the Forward Look emblem themselves as being the ultimate fender badge. There is nothing I would like better than to see these re-popped. I would consider offering it up as part of a repro project.

I could even spearhead the machine work. The missing link is an impression or super tight specs on the chrome "bubble bar" with the letters. If someone had the goods on that part to put into the computer, we'd be off to the rodeo.

Oh yeah, .... and a little $$


I've always wondered why the forward look twin boomerang emblem wasn't use more,I have a pair saved from a silver special.
That fuel injection emblem stands on it's own as a work of art.
I'd like to know who designed it.
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d500neil
Posted 2010-07-09 3:50 PM (#231793 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Matt, the OEM color-appearance of those asphaltic deadener panels can vary with the models/years and
may even vary within the model years.

Usually, they have a sort of mottled appearance, rather than having a completely uniform coloration, and a
lot of them have a dark brownish color, but I've got photos of light-ish colored deadener panels, as well.

I've got quite an extensive collection of open trunk photos (kinky, I know) showing their appearances.

From all my observations, those liners were inserted when the outer and the inner sections of the trunk were
mechanically crimped together (no welding), and there was some sort of masking paper, which was either already
installed onto the panels, or, some sort of masking was applied over them, when the trunks were painted, because
you will see no evidence of overspray on the panels, but, on some of them you WILL see paint-runs/dribs/drabs which were
left/deposited onto the panels, when something was removed, or separated from those panels, right after the trunks were painted.






Edited by d500neil 2010-07-09 3:53 PM
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christine-lover
Posted 2010-07-09 10:14 PM (#231839 - in reply to #231793)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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d500neil - 2010-07-09 3:50 PM

Matt, the OEM color-appearance of those asphaltic deadener panels can vary with the models/years and
may even vary within the model years.

Usually, they have a sort of mottled appearance, rather than having a completely uniform coloration, and a
lot of them have a dark brownish color, but I've got photos of light-ish colored deadener panels, as well.

I've got quite an extensive collection of open trunk photos (kinky, I know) showing their appearances.

From all my observations, those liners were inserted when the outer and the inner sections of the trunk were
mechanically crimped together (no welding), and there was some sort of masking paper, which was either already
installed onto the panels, or, some sort of masking was applied over them, when the trunks were painted, because
you will see no evidence of overspray on the panels, but, on some of them you WILL see paint-runs/dribs/drabs which were
left/deposited onto the panels, when something was removed, or separated from those panels, right after the trunks were painted.



Neil-

I have had this conversation with people in the Edsel club and I know what FoMoCo did. And I would have just figured that Mopar would have done it the same as FoMoCo products of that era since that way is the most efficient way to do it on an assembly line. There trunk and hood insulations are body color, the insulation piece was put in the inner and outer panels before it was crimped just like this Desoto, then it was crimped down. Also, they never put anything over the insulation to mask the paint/overspray.
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d500neil
Posted 2010-07-10 3:28 PM (#231904 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Unfortunately, for FWDLK'ers, and probably other-years, but, being very specific here, the factories never painted-over
(intentionally!---lolol) the deadener panels.

There is/was no such thing as OEM body-colored deadener panels.

MAYBE the reason for not painting over the deadener panels was that early-on the CORP determined that those panels just
swallow-up paint, before they get to become uniformly covered....and that the best thing to do (to save time&money)
was to have them be masked off.

Comparison images of owner-oversprayed deadeners, and various OEM examples of pristine, and not-so-pristine condition
deadeners is fairly conclusive about the fact that the deadeners were not supposed to receive any OEM paint on them.

I just don't know how the deadener panels were masked off, at the Painting Station.




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Lancer Mike
Posted 2010-07-13 3:02 PM (#232416 - in reply to #231679)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



500020002000500100100
Location: The Mile High City
August 13 - 14! I have to keep my eyes on this one.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2010-08-10 1:26 AM (#236322 - in reply to #232416)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



500020002000500100100
Location: The Mile High City
We are getting near now! I have re-thought some of my earlier posts. I think Max is more on target with the potential price of this car. The bubble has truly burst! I hope I am wrong, but I would be surprised if this one-of-a-kind gem tops $250,000 in bidding!
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BSoto
Posted 2010-08-14 6:01 PM (#236912 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Top bid -- $375,000 -- no sale.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-08-15 1:42 AM (#236948 - in reply to #236912)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Location: Parts Unknown
A beautiful car doomed to life as a paperweight.
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sidesho_bob1961
Posted 2010-08-15 8:49 AM (#236960 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Not if I win the powerball!!!! I'll drive the darn thing!!! All over too.........
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sidesho_bob1961
Posted 2010-08-15 8:50 AM (#236961 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Not if I win the powerball!!!! I'll drive the darn thing!!! All over too.........
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d500neil
Posted 2010-08-15 2:17 PM (#236987 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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And, as a mobile sculpture, or a paperweight, this car's mechanical condition will (continue to) deteriorate,
as all cars benefit from being operated regularly, and this puppy ain't gonna be operating any time soon.


...Power-balls notwithstanding.






Edited by d500neil 2010-08-15 2:18 PM
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2010-08-16 6:18 PM (#237131 - in reply to #236987)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



500020002000500100100
Location: The Mile High City
The auction result is no great surprise. Great time to buy, rotten time to sell!
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-08-17 12:20 AM (#237181 - in reply to #236961)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Location: Parts Unknown
sidesho_bob1961 - 2010-08-16 5:50 AM

Not if I win the powerball!!!! I'll drive the darn thing!!! All over too.........


*****************************************

I would like the opportunity to give this thing a good shaking out on a track or road trip. I am
well acquainted with the performance of the 58 Fireflite. I would like to experience just what a
fuelie Adventurer delivered for the money.
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d500neil
Posted 2010-08-17 3:02 PM (#237228 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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...About the same as for the dual carb version--the AFB's wouldn't/won't wash-out on curves, like the
WCFB's did/do.

Was the F.I. supposed to regulate the flow of gas, into the car, under load (hard acceleration)? If so,
there might not be as much wasted fuel going into the car, as might be dumped by a carb or two,
so, maybe (given the 50's technology) there would be better throttle response, but, unless you're
dragging the car, I doubt that the fuelie would provide any significant performance benefit, out in
the Real-World, where you wouldn't be using its "extra" gross HP, over that of the dualie-carb cars.




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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2010-08-18 1:19 AM (#237285 - in reply to #237228)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Location: Parts Unknown
I am not one to pound my cars, .... no smoking tires or stomping on the gas. But I do like a nice, stiff
lift off. I was pleasantly surprised to find my car, even in standard form and tired, moved out pretty good
given that it weights 5400 lbs. It did even better after I rebuilt the engine. Of course, that is with a single
4bbl and a few tricks the factory didn't incorporate in 58. It would be fun to see how a comparable car would
do with that EFI unit. I would not expect jet propulsion, but would be neat to experience.
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firedome
Posted 2010-08-19 6:16 PM (#237514 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Expert

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Way off, weighs 4100# according to Standard Catalog of Old Cars, add 100# or so for fluids. My 'Sweep weighed 3769 on the local truck scale.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2011-10-06 3:39 PM (#291580 - in reply to #237514)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



500020002000500100100
Location: The Mile High City

This car was in my Hemmings Motor News this month. It is again for sale through yet another auction. I did not note when or where the auction is this time, but it seems as though this car's future is set: auction to auction to auction to auction...

Oh, the were definitely pumping up the "pilot car" idea. There was a full page advertisement with the De Soto "Pilot Car" above a gold and white GMC Palamino "Pilot Truck".

http://seeyouontheblock.com/



Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-10-06 3:50 PM




(1957%20GMC%20Palamino.jpg)



(1958%20Desoto%20Adventurer.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments 1957%20GMC%20Palamino.jpg (87KB - 167 downloads)
Attachments 1958%20Desoto%20Adventurer.jpg (56KB - 321 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-10-09 8:28 AM (#291965 - in reply to #291580)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Yeah, ... we've been all over this "pilot car" subject. Pilot cars were pre-production
work-out-the-bugs cars built to ensure all the production line set up was going to work
OK. Ford did it. GM did it. It was standard production line procedure. They were limited
to just a few cars and were generally pulled off to the side, fixed for any problems, and
were rarely sold to the public. If the problems were too much of a bother, they got junked.
DeSoto production began late for the 58 model year, but theproduction of the Adventurer
began MONTHS after that production line had been started up making 58's. It is HIGHLY
unlikely that this is a pilot car. The factory would never have kept a car around for 3 months
and THEN built it up as an Adventurer. Or would they ? It just does not make sense. When
they needed a big body ragtop, they would have done up a build sheet and hung the special
pieces on it and voila! ... an Adventurer ragtop.

If this is the very first one made / mocked up, that is a different bird. But it is NOT a pilot car.
I'd like to see whatever documentation supports such a claim. For that matter, I'd love to see
a data tag that reads "PILOT" where the sequence number should be, with a ridiculously early
build date, and the CHS paperwork to verify it. Then we'd have one crazy story about how
DeSoto built a car and then either mothballed it or fiddled with it for 3 months before deciding
to sell it.
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Beltran
Posted 2011-10-09 10:24 AM (#291973 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Having worked all my life for the big three, using the statement "it does not make sense" should not be made with these companies in the same paragraph. Some of the things I have seen done defy logic.

I am not even sure if pre-production as we called them, not 'Pilot', cars had vin plates. If you mean a show car these were rarely driven and mostly trailered and stored in large garage's. They were rarely road worthy. Mule vehicles were driven to death and then scrapped, these were rarely beauties as they were used to test internal features and functions on a previous model's body.

I don't know what a Pilot car is and doubt there would ever be any sort of documentation or markings to indicate it as Pilot. They didn't keep documentation like that. Exec's just ordered it done and the guys in mock up got the parts and built it. If for some reason it could / was sold to the public you would get a letter saying this vehicle is sold AS IS without warranty, without much else to identify the vehicle as more than 'Used'.

So since you can't prove any of these statements it puts the whole value of the vehicle in question. For all we know some factory brat got a prototype injection system out of mock up and put it on his Desoto rag top and claimed all of this was true... to turn his ride into something really 'valuable' for some rich sucker to buy. We may never know the truth.
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ronbo97
Posted 2011-10-09 6:48 PM (#292009 - in reply to #291973)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"


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Typical auction house puffery. " Let's spread a rumor that this car is extra-special so that some fool with more money than brains will buy it at a premium, thinking it's a million dollar car."

The car is still owned by the guy that bought it from Tom White. He hasn't been able to sell it for more than he paid for it.

Ron

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d500neil
Posted 2011-10-09 10:57 PM (#292036 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

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Roger, I haven't seen that 4,100 lb. weight, that you reference, from the "Standard Catalog", but, I'll bet that it is referencing the "shipping
weight" of the Adventurer or a Fireflite.

The advertised Shipping Weights on our cars bear very little relationship to reality.

I'll bet that your Firesweep's "shipping weight" was a lot less than the 3,769 lbs that you recorded on a truck scale.

I do know that the Dodges had grossly under-reported "shipping weights".

I've never had the opportunity to weigh my own car, but would love to do so, sometime.

I don't have the "Standard Catalog", here, but I checked with "The Complete Book of Collectable Cars", and find that
the Adventurer vert would have a weight of 4,235 lbs; I'll bet that that weight is a lot higher than its published
"Shipping Weight".

I checked the 57 Dodge Custom Royal, and its weights are listed at between 3,670 - 3,810.









Edited by d500neil 2011-10-09 11:15 PM
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Fins58
Posted 2011-10-10 11:45 AM (#292078 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



As you can see at the cowl tag, It don't have the correct color.
The tag says code "XXX" so it was all white.I really want to see
a copy of the "build card" because I don't think it has the fuel
injection from the factory either.





(cowl tag.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments cowl tag.jpg (30KB - 187 downloads)
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-10-10 2:27 PM (#292099 - in reply to #292078)
Subject: RE: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Location: Parts Unknown
Mark,

I have seen with my own eyes several GM cars that displayed the word "PILOT" on the data
tag where the build sequence number would normally go. The car that sticks in my mind is
a 67 SS 427 convertible that my old friend John bought out of L.A. back in the early 80's. I am
positive there were others, but my memory has faded. Seems to me one was a 58 Pontiac ?

Not sure what Mopar did in this regard, if they did it at all.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-10-10 2:56 PM (#292103 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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I, and others, I'm sure, have seen Mopes with "PILOT" stamped onto their P/T plates (not any FWDLKers, AFAIK),
on 60's cars, for sure....



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GregCon
Posted 2011-10-10 3:12 PM (#292107 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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carburetors don't dump gas into an engine.....the engine sucks gas out of the carb. there's a difference between dumping and sucking....
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d500neil
Posted 2011-10-10 3:29 PM (#292111 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca
That engine sucks?

I always that that it was a vacuum draw, that caused the air/fuel mixture to enter the
intake manifolding/engine cylinders.

"Dumping" was a mental reference to describe the large amount of gasoline that that engine
consumes.






Edited by d500neil 2011-10-10 3:42 PM
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Beltran
Posted 2011-10-10 6:54 PM (#292138 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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They must have changed the practice then. I worked on 80, 90, 00 vehicles that did not have that kind of tagging on them. Serial numbers were just very low. I personally had a Shelby that was very low numbers and part of 'the pre-prod Engineering' vehicles. To license it for road worthiness you had to have a vin. The practice must have changed along the way with new regulations.
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d500neil
Posted 2011-10-10 7:13 PM (#292139 - in reply to #292138)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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Location: bishop, ca
Mark, the badging of the "Pilot" cars was to confirm their existence as being hand-built prototypes that were created,
typically, to test and fine tune the physical construction protocols on the new model years cars.

They were not intended to be sold to the public, but, some Pilots obviously escaped from the factory's clutches.

The Pilots were different from the in-house/around-plant drivers, that did not have any VIN's on them; saw a few of
these latters on WPC Club national meet trips to Detroit & Belvidere IL assembly plants.

I'm pretty sure that there is a 1967 Coronet 500 vert on the evilpay, right now, that is a true Pilot car, which also is (typically)
equipped with all of the available options on it, for test-fitting purposes.





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d500neil
Posted 2011-10-10 7:23 PM (#292140 - in reply to #292139)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!

Posts: 19146
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I don't know how to attach evilpay auctions, so, just search the 'pay for # 170707621419 for a '67 Pilot car for sale.

This car does have a VIN ....20 on it; but, the seller doesn't show the P/T plate, which should have "Pilot Car" stamped
onto it.



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dukeboy
Posted 2011-10-10 9:28 PM (#292159 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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LMAO!!! Bout time this hobby got back to what it was originally....About the CARS and NOT what they are worth come sale time..I hope the rich **** that bought this overpriced, non drivable(Too rare!?!), Thing chokes on it..Flippers never cease to amaze me. They buy high, then try and sell in the sh**iest times. Now i know what a $500K Casket looks like.

Edited by dukeboy 2011-10-10 9:30 PM
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BHWINC
Posted 2011-10-10 10:01 PM (#292162 - in reply to #292159)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Elite Veteran

Posts: 852
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LOL... I never thought my 53 F100 with a vin of 24 as anything more than an old truck,, Guess I should get with the times and start marketing it as my RETIREMENT??

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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-10-11 4:32 AM (#292176 - in reply to #292162)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Location: Parts Unknown
I don't look at my DeSoto as anything but a car I love and want to drive. No "500K
caskets" or garage floor "paperweights" for me. It's just a car ... a very special car
to me, but just a car to be driven, all the same.

When got into this "hobby", it was such a pleasure to see cars like ours coming down
the road like it was "just another day at the office". All the flipping and B-J hype has
made those days as gone as the dinosaurs. I could not care less if my car was worth
$1500 or 150K. It is the same car to me and it ain't about the money. It is about the
experience.


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dukeboy
Posted 2011-10-11 6:47 AM (#292178 - in reply to #292176)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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BTW Doc., you seem to be talking an aweful lot lately about driving these cars....How many times have you driven that DeSoto Lately? I put about 35 miles on my Plymouth this weekend....
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GregCon
Posted 2011-10-11 9:27 AM (#292187 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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I agree that money has ruined the hobby, but there is one silver lining to it. If the cars were cheap - let's say you could buy a nice 58 Desoto for $3,000 - you'd have every jamoke out there buying them and trashing them out. The monetary value tends to preserve the cars. It also drives the market for reproduction parts. No one would be making repro parts for valueless cars.
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2011-10-11 11:21 AM (#292203 - in reply to #292187)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Location: The Mile High City
It sounds like we are ramping up for an "Occupy Barrett-Jackson" protest?
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dukeboy
Posted 2011-10-11 12:06 PM (#292207 - in reply to #292187)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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GregCon - 2011-10-11 9:27 AM

I agree that money has ruined the hobby, but there is one silver lining to it. If the cars were cheap - let's say you could buy a nice 58 Desoto for $3,000 - you'd have every jamoke out there buying them and trashing them out. The monetary value tends to preserve the cars. It also drives the market for reproduction parts. No one would be making repro parts for valueless cars.


"Valueless" antique cars will never return simply due to their Antique nature and not many left out there.

This "Holy sh*T!!! Let's All watch some rich pr*** spend more money on a d@mn car than you and I will ever see in a lifetime" just seems to fasinate some folks to no end. It isn't enough to simply know you own a piece of history that not too many would even TRY to restore, Oh wait! I have to have the RAREST, WORTH THE MOST, and optioned out the ass...This BS is what's ruined the hobby...



Edited by dukeboy 2011-10-11 12:09 PM
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Windsor59
Posted 2011-10-11 1:05 PM (#292216 - in reply to #292207)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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I bought my Windsor 59 conv for $ 9000 it was a ok price for a big project, but the parts use/nos and engine work, fabric / vinyl (interior )...... that was expensive. $ 60,000.
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Desoto world
Posted 2011-10-11 9:38 PM (#292267 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"


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Each time this car comes to auction, the story seems to be 'enhanced' somewhat. I had the privilege of first meeting Tom White in 2005 at the concours event put on up at Louden Raceway in New Hampshire. As I recall it; Tom had this car with him having only completed it quite recently. I am fairly certain that the fuel injection system is a correct original and not modified in any way (at least by Tom) as he showed me very detailed schematics that illustrated the need for unique voltage on each injector and various other tidbits.. I was quite impressed with his attention to detail and have always respected him (and his restorations) since. I do recall him saying that the car was an original injector car but the injector unit was found elsewhere. Again, he was quite passionate and honest about the car. He sold the car a couple of years later to some folks in Florida for deservedly big money. I think this is where some of the 'enhancements' started. First it was called an original car from the factory with original injection. Now they are calling it a 'pilot' car (or first one off the line). Tom made neither of those representations to me during our (at least) hour long introduction with the car as a centerpiece of the conversation! I'll be interested to see what happens with the car. The market has corrected and the restoration (as outstanding as it might have been) is now becoming old.

Edited by Desoto world 2011-10-11 9:40 PM
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GregCon
Posted 2011-10-11 10:12 PM (#292269 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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If it is the one that I saw in a magazine, it used factory parts that had been 'updated' in many instances given the original components could no longer be found. He had done so covertly....I don't think any of the mods were visible.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-10-12 1:53 AM (#292288 - in reply to #292178)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Location: Parts Unknown
dukeboy - 2011-10-12 3:47 AM

BTW Doc., you seem to be talking an aweful lot lately about driving these cars....How many times have you driven that DeSoto Lately? I put about 35 miles on my Plymouth this weekend....

This "Holy sh*T!!! Let's All watch some rich pr*** spend more money on a d@mn car than you and I will ever see in a lifetime" just seems to fasinate some folks to no end. It isn't enough to simply know you own a piece of history that not too many would even TRY to restore, Oh wait! I have to have the RAREST, WORTH THE MOST, and optioned out the ass...This BS is what's ruined the hobby...


*********************************************************************

While I could not agree more with the "Look at ME!" crowd being a major negative force
on ANY hobby, another real drag are the car guys who want to make personal stabs at others
in the hobby.

Duke, .. I think you know my status and relative ability to do anything more than look at my
cars in photographs. I think you are also hip to the fact that I drove my cars daily for over 25
years and that other life priorities had me put them in mothballs for a while.

But my reference to driving them is obviously NOT in the literal sense. How could I ? I am in
F#@ING Afghanistan. I am speaking from a state of mind about how I view the cars ... kind of
an extension of your comment about the "Look at ME!" crowd being more about status symbols
that a genuine love for the cars and driving them.

But really ? What's up with the nipping at the heels ? I know you know what I am saying about
driving our cars. Let's not be so divisive. I get enough of that sh!t at work. Thanks.
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dukeboy
Posted 2011-10-12 7:00 AM (#292292 - in reply to #292288)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Doctor DeSoto - 2011-10-12 1:53 AM

While I could not agree more with the "Look at ME!" crowd being a major negative force
on ANY hobby, another real drag are the car guys who want to make personal stabs at others
in the hobby.

Duke, .. I think you know my status and relative ability to do anything more than look at my
cars in photographs. I think you are also hip to the fact that I drove my cars daily for over 25
years and that other life priorities had me put them in mothballs for a while.

But my reference to driving them is obviously NOT in the literal sense. How could I ? I am in
F#@ING Afghanistan. I am speaking from a state of mind about how I view the cars ... kind of
an extension of your comment about the "Look at ME!" crowd being more about status symbols
that a genuine love for the cars and driving them.

But really ? What's up with the nipping at the heels ? I know you know what I am saying about
driving our cars. Let's not be so divisive. I get enough of that sh!t at work. Thanks.


Doc. I know you know that some here have or almost have, 10K posts about the same thing...OEM this, or Factory that. You like to run like a broken record as I was about the 440 about a year ago.
I was told the same thing you are being told right now. I asked the same questions you are asking right now. 'Ya know what?
Folks kinda get tired of hearing bout how badass a 440 can be if they want to build a poly 318. They also get tired of hearing bout how we need to drive these cars, you have either been there and done that at least fifty times before anybody else here has (you would have to be at least 75 Y/O to have done as much as you say), And there are people here that kinda get tired of hearing it in ever freakin' post. Once I had great respect for you, as did alot of others.
Now, I throw you into the same pile as the uppity, arrogant, self serving, post just to see his post count go up, sometimes stretching the truth till it tears and when called on it, simply whines about how they are being "Attacked". I make no apologies here Doc., You are a grown man. You post AS much as you do ABOUT as much as you do, someone's gonna call you on it....The only difference is, I all but stopped posting bout the 440 thing.
I guess you haven't had the pleasure of having a real "Personal Stab" as I did when that completely idiotic, Rambling, manifesto was posted about my family and how they should be so lucky as to catch a fatal disease and pass on. You should feel grateful Doc. cause there are some here that feel as strongly about you and your "I've been there and done that, that's nothing" type of replies to just about every post about anything...The ones that don't reply to you, or make "Personal Stabs" at you as you call them, they don't give a sh*t..Just trying to help further the hobby..
Don't feel too bad though Doc. there are a couple others that are just as bad.

Your friend in the hobby,
Duke.
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hemidenis
Posted 2011-10-12 1:38 PM (#292327 - in reply to #146642)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



Expert

Posts: 3891
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I spoke to Tom in Carlisle years ago and I saw his overestored beauty too and he never said nothing about pilot car. He told me about "it was special factory made for a executive of Chrysler". Now years after is a prototype, next is going to be turbine pilot converted to EFI….
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Lancer Mike
Posted 2011-10-12 1:52 PM (#292333 - in reply to #292327)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Location: The Mile High City
Is Tom White the owner of White Post Restorations?

Perhaps this will become a test pilot show car personally ordered and driven daily by Tex Colbert?

Edited by Lancer Mike 2011-10-12 1:58 PM
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christine-lover
Posted 2011-10-12 6:36 PM (#292366 - in reply to #292333)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Posts: 2996
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Lancer Mike - 2011-10-12 1:52 PM

Is Tom White the owner of White Post Restorations?


No, he owns Whitehall Restorations.
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Doctor DeSoto
Posted 2011-10-13 3:27 AM (#292410 - in reply to #292292)
Subject: Re: 1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"



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Location: Parts Unknown
dukeboy - 2011-10-13 4:00 AM

Doctor DeSoto - 2011-10-12 1:53 AM

While I could not agree more with the "Look at ME!" crowd being a major negative force
on ANY hobby, another real drag are the car guys who want to make personal stabs at others
in the hobby.

Duke, .. I think you know my status and relative ability to do anything more than look at my
cars in photographs. I think you are also hip to the fact that I drove my cars daily for over 25
years and that other life priorities had me put them in mothballs for a while.

But my reference to driving them is obviously NOT in the literal sense. How could I ? I am in
F#@ING Afghanistan. I am speaking from a state of mind about how I view the cars ... kind of
an extension of your comment about the "Look at ME!" crowd being more about status symbols
that a genuine love for the cars and driving them.

But really ? What's up with the nipping at the heels ? I know you know what I am saying about
driving our cars. Let's not be so divisive. I get enough of that sh!t at work. Thanks.


Doc. I know you know that some here have or almost have, 10K posts about the same thing...OEM this, or Factory that. You like to run like a broken record as I was about the 440 about a year ago.
I was told the same thing you are being told right now. I asked the same questions you are asking right now. 'Ya know what?
Folks kinda get tired of hearing bout how badass a 440 can be if they want to build a poly 318. They also get tired of hearing bout how we need to drive these cars, you have either been there and done that at least fifty times before anybody else here has (you would have to be at least 75 Y/O to have done as much as you say), And there are people here that kinda get tired of hearing it in ever freakin' post. Once I had great respect for you, as did alot of others.
Now, I throw you into the same pile as the uppity, arrogant, self serving, post just to see his post count go up, sometimes stretching the truth till it tears and when called on it, simply whines about how they are being "Attacked". I make no apologies here Doc., You are a grown man. You post AS much as you do ABOUT as much as you do, someone's gonna call you on it....The only difference is, I all but stopped posting bout the 440 thing.
I guess you haven't had the pleasure of having a real "Personal Stab" as I did when that completely idiotic, Rambling, manifesto was posted about my family and how they should be so lucky as to catch a fatal disease and pass on. You should feel grateful Doc. cause there are some here that feel as strongly about you and your "I've been there and done that, that's nothing" type of replies to just about every post about anything...The ones that don't reply to you, or make "Personal Stabs" at you as you call them, they don't give a sh*t..Just trying to help further the hobby..
Don't feel too bad though Doc. there are a couple others that are just as bad.

Your friend in the hobby,
Duke.


*********************************************************************

So, let me get this straight:

a. You have been badly attacked on a personal level

b. You feel this makes it OK to do the same toward others

c. You are somehow an appointed "police" to let people know when you feel they have posted too much

*********************************************************************

Dukie, I have done a lot of sh!t in my life. None of which anyone who does not know me is qualified to
call into question. You want to get to know me and see stuff for yourself, then by all means. Until such time
let's keep the personal smack out. I know you didn't like getting smacked on (if it was publicly, I missed it)
and having your character called into question. It is just straight up inappropriate. Let's take the high road.

And just to put the first foot forward, if I at any time offended or stepped over the line toward you in a personal
way, hit me with a PM and we'll discuss it. I will apologize publicly for any such trespasses.
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