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Location: Sweden | Anybody has an idea why its painted gloss pink in the bottom?
I saw this car on Chrysler at Carlisle 2004 and its a really nice car! I talked to Tom White and he told me a lot of interesting things
About the Adventurer!
Jorgen
Edited by 1960ny 2009-01-09 10:15 AM
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Location: Hell's Outhouse - a.k.a. Buckeye, Arizona | StillOutThere - 2009-01-08 5:54 PM
As I recall the car was a two door hardtop in the gully. Hey, I went through my EFI file and found a couple of interesting things. One is a hnadwritten note on a photo copy of a many page factory brochure listing production. It says: 35 Chrysler 300s, 12 Dodges, 5 DeSotos, 2 Plymouths, 54 (Total) I don't know who wrote it so take it for whatever it is worth because not even the Chrysler number corresponds with what is in the production records that the 300 Intl Club has in their hands. Okay?
Crap - I bet that's where I got the "35" number from. Apologies for the mix-up.
Just out of curiosity, what kind of EFI numbers does the 300 club have? |
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Location: Sept. 1958 | 1960ny - 2009-01-09 2:29 AM
Anybody has an idea why its painted gloss pink in the bottom?
I saw this car on Chrysler at Carlisle 2004 and its a really nice car! I talked to Tom White and he told me a lot interesting things
About the Adventurer!
Jorgen
I bet that is what the factory did. One thing I have noticed, FoMoCo cars of this era used few different colors on the underside and I believe they mixed left over paint that they had left since they wouldn't want to throw any of it out. I wouldn't doubt Mopar did the same, saves money. |
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Location: DFW, TX | I've got a really dumb question. Can you get those EFI badges from the aftermarket? |
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Location: The Mile High City | Called the auction house again, they said they would post the results on the webpage in the next few days. Not a particularly helpful bunch! |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | ...Danny, anything is possible, AND, almost-certainly, there are several "Fuel Injection" emblems that still exist, in attics
and basements, and boxes around the world.
The 1958 Dodges reportedly (or, mythologically!) had their "Fuel Injection" emblems installed on the foreshortened-end
of their quarter panel chrome moldings.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Couple things: I don't know about the existence of "DeSoto-Pink" floor pan primer, but, if this car WAS a 'Pilot' car,
it probably would not have had any undercoating be applied to it, because, the purpose OF a Pilot car is to check-out the assembly fit and finish on the new car, and undercoating would tend to hide valuable build-information on the car.
Also, on 'production' cars (and, probably, on Pilots, too??) , the body-color(s) got over-sprayed onto the floor pans, in the Paint Stations/booths.
Maybe THIS car got its pink-primer as PART of its 'Pilot'-build, and, maybe, the factory might have masked-off the undercarriage when this car was being hand-built....?
Edited by d500neil 2009-01-12 7:30 PM
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Location: Parts Unknown | There was nothing "pilot" about a standard convertible body built in January of 1958. If it had a build date of September 57, then it could very well be a "pilot". The only thing to test fit and "pilot" on the late-intro Adventurer was seat material, side trim inserts and decklid bars, 150 speedo, stiffer springs, and some bolt-on engine components. Since most of this stuff was standard issue in 57 and on some other models, it hardly warranted a "pilot" run.
By the time the 1958 Adventurer went into production, this convertible body had been built without modifications for a year and a half for both Chrysler and DeSoto (since late 1956) for a total of several thousand convertibles. ...... 57 300, NY'er, Windsor, Adventurer, Fireflite, Firedome ....58 300, NY'er, Windsor, Adventurer, Fireflite, Firesweep.
All Adventurers were built in Detroit and had grey underbody paint. I am wondering if the camera did not tweak grey into pink ? My camera likes to do that when a flash or super bright light is present.
If this car was anything of a production "pilot", such status revolved around it being fitted with the details that set an Adventurer apart from a comparable Fireflite. The computer build card should clearly indicate if this was a "pilot" car for Adventurer production. I am most curious to see how this (or any FL Mopar) was documented as a "pilot" car. |
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Location: DFW, TX | d500neil - 2009-01-12 6:17 PM
...Danny, anything is possible, AND, almost-certainly, there are several "Fuel Injection" emblems that still exist, in attics
and basements, and boxes around the world.
The 1958 Dodges reportedly (or, mythologically!) had their "Fuel Injection" emblems installed on the foreshortened-end
of their quarter panel chrome moldings.
Neil,
I'm sure there are some, but there is really no way to find or buy them. I think the Chryslers used a special "fuel injection" version of the standard 300D quarter panel medallion. That would mean that none of them would have the interesting, almost "googie" styling of this DeSoto badge.
Did Plymouths and Dodges use the same badge as DeSoto? Or did they have their own?
I'd like to find replicas of the DeSoto EFI badges if there are any.. |
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Location: Parts Unknown | For what it is worth, ... I have the gold "star" part for one.
B. |
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Location: DFW, TX | Brent, do you have a gold star for one that you would consider selling?  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 558
Location: Grenoble - France | 57burb - 2009-01-13 4:14 PM
Did Plymouths and Dodges use the same badge as DeSoto? Or did they have their own?
The parts book indicates the same parts for Plymouth, Dodge and DeSoto.
- NAME PLATE Fuel Injection, LP2, LD2-D500, LD3-D500, LS3-S, 1958, #1832038 (2 per car)
- BASE Fuel Injection Name Plate, LP2, LD2-D500, LD3-D500, LS3-S, 1958, #1832039 (2 per car)
Edited by Imp58Alpes 2009-01-13 1:02 PM
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Location: DFW, TX | Does anyone have any ideas on how to take those two part numbers and do a search of obsolete inventory? Or do any collectors have a set (two each) that they would be willing to sell? I just LOVE those.. and I want to run a Hilborn injector on my 392... |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | The confuser 'got' the gas tank as being a silver-gray, and the tail pipes and mufflers, and chassis in their
correct shades; why would anyone photo-chop the floor pans, into pink?
And, regardless of its body-metal, do "we" know when this car was actually built?
From Darrel Davis' historical Society research, we DO know that "Scheduled" build dates, and even engine-numbers, are NOT
absolutely relevant as to a car's actual IBM-Card-confirmed BUILD date.
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Location: Parts Unknown | 57burb - 2009-01-14 7:57 AM
Brent, do you have a gold star for one that you would consider selling? :)
Danny - I am with you, .... these rank right up there with the Forward Look emblem themselves as being the ultimate fender badge. There is nothing I would like better than to see these re-popped. I would consider offering it up as part of a repro project.
I could even spearhead the machine work. The missing link is an impression or super tight specs on the chrome "bubble bar" with the letters. If someone had the goods on that part to put into the computer, we'd be off to the rodeo.
Oh yeah, .... and a little $$
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Doc, it's not the First of April yet (only, FEELS that way in CA...) ; but wouldn't you feel like a counterfeiter/forger
if the Fuelie emblems were to be re-popped? |
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Location: Parts Unknown | Huh ? Why would reproducing these be any different than repopping floor pans or hubcap centers or anything else ?
I am a little envious of the Mustang and tri-five Chev guys who can buy anything for their car brand new. I have a box of Adventurer Powered tags that were repopped for the 59 cars. If it is some sort of "abuse" you are concerned with, it does not seem to me that I have seen these showing up on every 59 DeSoto. In fact, I cannot think of the last time I saw a car wearing them, yet I have seen plenty with dual quads put on.
What is your angle ?
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | I wished you were "Dr Dodge". I would love to have the D500 badges on my car--not because my car is / was ever a D500. I like the looks of them, and I as I said before, I like to show the folks out there, What Dodge was capable of doing in 59, even thou for "Some", my car is not "Politically Correct"!!!!
Many ask me, Did Dodge really offer twin four barrels in 59. Did they offer the swing out seats? They are amazed when I tell them yep.
Gary |
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Location: DFW, TX | d500neil - 2009-01-14 8:22 PM
Doc, it's not the First of April yet (only, FEELS that way in CA...) ; but wouldn't you feel like a counterfeiter/forger
if the Fuelie emblems were to be re-popped? Oh good lord Neil. They haven't made this crap in 50 years, and it basically never existed when it was new. Really, who cares? At this point can we just enjoy the cars? I would think there is still enough documentation avaiable to easily pinpoint some kind of a faked or a clone Bendix car.
I just want a badge to run on my car that is a nod to Mopar's ancient legacy... not that anyone but me would care or know what it represents. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Yeah, following your logic, Brent, if I had a real Fuelie-Chubbie, I guess that I'd have to feel real good about all
the clone-fuelies running around, too.
I am very glad that re-popped emblems are not yet readily available--THAT's my "angle".
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Location: Parts Unknown |
I hear what you are saying. I vascillate between doing it "just so" ..... can be interpreted as 100% OEM correct, or any variation of available options not originally sold on my car ..... down to just doing it as I like it and dealing with the ensuing wrath of those who will accuse me of "misrepresentation" or worse.
The bottom line for me is that I am getting too old to do this car for someone else. I am going to build it as I want it. And what I want is something way out there in Googieland, with all the boomerangs and sputnik gadgets I can hang on it without it going overboard and looking like a 58 Impala with clashing chrome going every which way with no apparent design theme.
Those F/I tags are outstanding in their Googie design, and fit tastefully into the overall design of the 58 DeSoto. Since I would sooner pull my teeth out than ever show this (or any) car competitively, I really could not care less if it is correct to my car. Is it being suggested I should remove the power seat, windows, steering wheel clock, certified speedo, GGA generator, and everything else I have added to the car because it is nothing but a fraud ? The floors and trunk pan and various other lower body sheetmetal is 59. Should I take it back out so I don't step on the toes of those who own 59's ? I think not.
I come from a very different "place" in why I own cars like this. My reasoning is pretty simple, I love seeing old cars still going down the road and being used for their original purpose. Be it Farmer Brown or Yuppie Trevor, if the car is being used for hauling a bale of hay or grocery shopping, this will always place higher than some polished trailer queen at a car show, angling for some meaningless ribbon or landfill trophy in my eyes.
If some high falootin' technical nerd wants to go to the mat over some F/I tags, my attitude is simply this .... show me another DeSoto (or any other genuine F/I car) still out on the road for the public to see. Anyone else could have bought my car before I did. But they didn't. Now these people that did not buy my car are going to get bent over how I build the car ? This is no fuelie Chev .... it is an example of a car most people (even Mopar buffs) will likely never see another example of. I know I would be thrilled to death just to see one rolling down the road !
Explaining the tags to the critic will be no different than explaining the 60 shifter and R-G 5-speed or the disc brakes. Yer right, you could not get F/I on a Fireflite. But it is MY car. I want it to look "period", but not so strangled with "rules" that it can't be MY car. If anyone ever pries it from my cold, dead fingers, they can deal with such "inaccuracies" at that time. In the meantime, it will be a nicely understated Mopar flagship car that will get to be enjoyed by those who just see it going down the backroads of America.
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Location: DFW, TX | Neil, I'm gonna make you a "Neil Injected" badge for your Dodge! |
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Expert 5K+
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Location: Big pimpin' | d500neil - 2009-01-15 6:56 PM
Yeah, following your logic, Brent, if I had a real Fuelie-Chubbie, I guess that I'd have to feel real good about all
the clone-fuelies running around, too.
I am very glad that re-popped emblems are not yet readily available--THAT's my "angle".
Thing is, with the Fuelie Chebbies, there's NO way to know if it is legit or NOT! |
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Posts: 1488
Location: Florida | Looks like there was a final winning bid price on the FI Adventurer - from the Old Cars Weekly website - www.oldcarsweekly.com
"One of several noteworthy sales was the 1 of 5 DeSotos produced with fuel-injection, this being a 1958 Adventurer convertible that sold for $475,000 — most likely a world record paid for any DeSoto." |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | AND, I would say that around $.5MIL IS a "fair" market value, for this car.
Think that it's gonna ever be driven very much?
Chaney; doesn't Generic Motors have any "Build Cards", etc., available that can confirm a Fuelie's
provenance???
Edited by d500neil 2009-01-22 7:00 PM
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Location: The Mile High City | Sounds like a little bit of a snub there! I bet whomever bought it from White paid more than that and took a loss on this sale. World record for any DeSoto - sheesh! That's the best thing about DeSoto - just like Rodney Dangerfield - they don't get no respect! I love it. |
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Location: Parts Unknown |
This is what happens when the dollar value exceeds the value of the machine as a car .... it ceases to be a car and becomes something of a paperweight. 
I did Buicks before I discovered Mopar and ultimately settled on DeSoto. My Buicks (58-59-60) were pretty cool cars in their own right, but tell someone you drive a Buick and there is no response. Tell them you drive a DeSoto and the reaction is immediate.
Besides having a few really great cars, the name itself was a major attraction for me.
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Posts: 1728
Location: Fleetwood, Pa | I talked to Tom White this past year at the Fall Hershey meet. We happened to be discussing his 58 Fuelie Desoto and why he decided to sell. He did disclose to me the he got "well over $500,000 for the car. I didn't have the nerve to ask him the exact price. I figured he might not take kindly to me being that inquisitive. Tom has always been very nice to me and I'd like to keep it that way. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Hi, Bob! Welcome aboard; what parts do ye hail from?
I hadn't realized that Tom had sold the car; wonder why its second owner wanted, or had-to, sell it, in THIS 'down'
market, right now (like, he NEEDED the money, dummy!) ?
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Location: Yorba Linda, Ca | 2nd owner needed a tax write off, we know he bought it for well over 500 grand , and sold it for 475 Grand |
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Location: Fleetwood, Pa | Thanks Neil. When I talked to Tom, he was under the impression that there would be a reserve on the car.....somewhere around $675,000. According to Tom that's the least the new owner would let it go for....I'm assuming he was looking to make a cool $100,000 profit. I don't know what transpired between Oct. '08 and the auction date but apparently someone convinced the owner to drop the reserve, so he ended up losing $100,000!!! Easy come, easy go I guess. All I knowis..... if I owned that car, all the money in the world wouldn't have convinced me to sell!!! |
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Location: Fleetwood, Pa | BTW, I'm located outside of Reading, Pa. I'm fairly new to the Forward Look craze.......In Oct. '08 I purchased a 57 Plymouth Belvey. Just a real nice driver........which is exactly what I plan on doing with it!!!!! I'm looking forward to the Chryslers at Carlisle event........unlike past years I'll actually be able to bring my own ride to the show!! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 508
Location: Orlando | My dad just had a high-dollar car restored (not forwarlook, but the first Jag xk120 imported to the USA.) Took two years and a LOT of money (He has owned the car since '85.) Immediately after he got it back from the shop, he put over 1500 miles on it in about 3 weeks!!! We're talking about a car worth between $300k-400k. I have to admit that I would not have the guts to do it.
Anyway, if any of you guys are going to be @ the Amelia Island Concourse this year, you'll see it there  |
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Location: The Mile High City | Hi, Bob:
Welcome to the best little Forward Look site on the web! I have been wondering about this car an if it was a forced sale. After all, Florida is the bankruptcy capitol of the U.S. I have no idea what the actual circumstances of the sale are, but knowing what we know about this car, you have to wonder... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 636
| In Hemmings there was some commentary, covering a recent auction, to the effect that the financial implosion has deeply affected the high end collector car market. As an example they cited a (57-59?) Imperial convertible that dropped more than $100K since it last changed hands in 2006.
I wish the cost of restoring these cars were dropping along with their resale value. HA!
Sparky |
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Location: Parts Unknown | The whole concept of driving them vs. trailer queens is what separates the proverbial "men from the boys" in my opinion. And I say this from the unique perspective of having my car creamed-out while on my way to a rockabilly show. I believe it was Leslie's band. It takes cojones to take all that sweat and ka-ching out there into the ring with the idiot drivers. But if you don't ...... what exactly is the point in getting out of bed ?
Money and passion are relative entities. Some of us are endowed with more of one than the other, some more than others.
When this car was over-restored from what looked like a decent original car, it had to be in the mind of of Mr. White that such a level of overkill was most likely going to relegate it to the "scrap heap" of garage floor paperweights, just another line on a spreadsheet inventory of some car collection and not someone's passionately loved prize. It became more about the money than the car. A sad end to a glorious vehicle. Granted, it is here and not gone forever, but it is placed so high on a pedestal that its eventuality has proven a close second.
If I were possessed with stupid money, this car would get a color change and a lot of bugs, dirt, and rock chips along the backroads to every small town I could visit. I only wish I had such disposable income. These cars deserve a better end than static display.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | It takes a morally dedicated, or stupid, and/or very rich person consciously to depreciate his own considerable financial
investment, in restoring a rare desirable car, to proceed to drive and enjoy it, as it was originally built and intended to
be used .
Given that this car may be an extremely valuable 1-of-1 convertible, I personally have no problems with the car being
returned to new condition, and never-again being seriously driven.
Jay Leno (who obviously meets several of the above criteria) takes the enviable position that he'll drive his cars until they 'need'
a restoration, and then, he'll re-restore them .
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Location: Parts Unknown | I am with Jay (sans cubic dollars), ... I will restore my car again and drive it. Not quite a F/I Adventurer ragtop, but hard to come closer.
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Location: The Mile High City | Whether a car is totally restored or on the brink of the inoperable abyss, if it sits for more than a few months - it magically turns into junk! Even in this thread, there was some discussion about whether this DeSoto even worked or not! I love to look at them, but they are not like a painting you place on the wall - they have functionality. If you lose the functionality, the car (or its owner) is missing a piece of the puzzle.
I know a man in Denver (he sold me my '58 Dodge Royal Lancer sedan) who drives his fully restored Auburn Boat-Tail Speedster around the streets of Denver. This isn't a reproduction. |
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Location: The Mile High City | Looks like it is back on the block. This time by Mecum at auction in California - should be fun to watch... http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=CA0810-96539&entryRow=103
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efi adventurer 05.jpg (30KB - 204 downloads)
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efi adventurer 07.jpg (47KB - 338 downloads)
efi adventurer 08.jpg (36KB - 307 downloads)
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Location: The Mile High City | Max sent me the link. He says this may not be Tom White's car! Could there possibly be a twin out there? |
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Location: Fleetwood, Pa | I'm 99.9% positive that this "was" Tom White's car!! They just aren't producing these anymore......... |
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Location: somerville mass | it'll sell for $1.000.000 ...... if mecum sold a 1965 cobra daytona coupe for 7.2 mil! tom white , unless anyone
knows, lives here in mass! hopkinton... so he sold it... well, it's a buyer's market... you cant drive a car this rare...
strictly a trailer queen! |
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Posts: 1728
Location: Fleetwood, Pa | Tom had his "freshly restored" 59 Plymouth Sport Fury convertible in the 2009 Fall Hershey "car corrral" and show. He doesn't fall in love with them. He bought the 59 a couple of years ago at a Carlisle event. I remember looking at the car prior to him purchasing it. He remarked at Hershey that this Plymouth was the "most rust free and straight forward look Mopar he has ever seen"..........hard to believe, since he's had some real beautiful cars.... |
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Location: The Mile High City | Last time it was up for auction in Florida, it sold for $475,000. But that was a no-name auction house. Even with Mecum running the show, I would be surprised to see it sell more than $725,000. |
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | Boy! if I had to chose a dream car this would be it! or a 1958 Fury with F.I.
Unfortunately for myself and most Forward Look lovers here,it would require Jay Lenos bank roll to own this thing.
Man,is it sure a beauty! those fuel injection emblems are so cool!
Edited by 1960DesotoAdventurer 2010-07-08 4:35 PM
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Location: Plymouth Spaceport | imopar380 - 2008-10-02 3:26 PM
Lancer Mike - 2008-10-02 10:17 AM Interesting, I thought this car was owned and restored by a man named Tom White. There are many articles about the car. There is a strong argument that this is the best DeSoto on the planet and perhaps the greatest Forward Look car too, since it may be the only one with a working electronic fuel injection unit. At any rate, it could be worth upwards of $35,000! :laugh: Tom White's car is a White and gold version, and has been discussed a coupla times on the forum. This gold one purports to be all original Fuelie, so I wonder how well this one runs as the EFI units were completely unstable when running hot etc, and unreliable, which is why they were all recalled. The setup in Tom White's car was actually rebuilt using, I believe some more modern technology that would allow it to function properly. Someone try and find the original post on it ?
Wasnt the big problem with the electronic module the electrolytic capacitors? I think I read somewhere that modern day capacitors are much better and can handle the heat generated under the hood. |
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Location: Williams California | That is an incredible restoration!!
---John |
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Location: Austria, Vienna | http://www.58-adventurer.com/tw.htm here is a link Tom sent me on his Desoto. He still owns it and after I compared both of them I think it is his car is for sale on the Auction. But market is very bad now and last Mecums did not surprise at all. But they have Ferrary GT 250 for sale on it as well which will draw a lot attention.
You remember red/white 59 CRL vert was on eBay sometime ago and guy wanted 170k - it is for sale on this auction as well along with some hard tops and vert Chryslers. So outcome - I would not be too much optimistic and would be surprised if it hits 300k.
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Location: The Mile High City | Thanks for posting that link, Max! I found that site once, but could not find it again! This auction will be very interesting: I would be very surprised if it sold at a loss from $475,000! Less than $300,000 would be astounding for this one-of-a-kind car. Really, it depends on the auctioneer and promotion efforts. I must admit, they could hype it up a lot more in the website description.
I think there are a bunch of articles on how White got that EFI unit running and you can find them using Max's link. As far as I know, this is the world's ONLY running Forward Look EFI unit in an original EFI car.
Edited by Lancer Mike 2010-07-08 5:18 PM
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1958 DeSOTO FUEL-INJECTED ADVENTURER CONVERTIBLE "PILOT CAR"
Forward Look Swap Meet -> For Sale - EBAY, CRAIGSLIST & OTHER FINDS
