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| Hello there. My name is Johnny I'm from Germany and I'm brand new to this board.
I haven't found a introduction place here, so I just say hi, and start with my first stupid question. More to come. 
I wonder if there have been any special european (italian) coach builders who did other bodys for '55 or '56 Chryslers. I have seen some dream cars from Ghia, but have there been any others? Or such that were offered to the public buyer?
I heard from a Vignale built '55 Imperial, but haven't found any pictures. Also there must be a '55 New Yorker or 300 that was custom built over here back then, with a bumper from a New Yorker.
Does anybody know about this?
Edited by THREE HUNDRED 2009-01-30 7:57 PM
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Expert
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Location: Minneapolis | Wie gehts, Johnny, and welcome! I can check my books, I had only heard of Ghia dream cars and Ghia-bodied Imperials before now. I am sure someone can help. |
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| Geht gut! Danke!
Yes, thanks. I hope I will find out sth. |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | This is a REALLY GOOD question. I can't think of ANY Chrysler chassis that was custom bodied in Europe by any body builder other than Ghia and all under contract to the factory before, during and after this time period we call the ForwardLook era. Anyone else?
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Location: Vancouver, BC |
Unlike the 1930's, when Chrysler built thousands of Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler chassis/cowl units, annual production was a handful in a good year by the late 1950's.
So it is quite possible someone ordered a chassis/cowl unit and had a special body built. Once the factory delivered the chassis to the dealer/seller, that would have been the end of the connection with Chrysler. The buyer or dealer would ship the chassis to the body builder who would then build a custom body as requested by the buyer.
Thus it would not be unusual to have a few custom built cars out there Chrysler and the rest of the world knows nothing about. And a chassis/cowl sale to a buyer outside of North America would greatly increase the likelihood no one knows anything about the car.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I just happened to be reading a 1956 Auto Age, this morning, and immediately notice that the general side-profile
view of the Shah's car greatly resembles the appearance of the 1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk.
The front-views are probably similar, too.
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Location: Under the X in Texas | Neil, Front of Shah of Persia car: (No I don't know who or what Borzou Sepasi is!)
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Magra, Sweden | I\ve found that Mr. Borzou Sepasi is a writer working on a book about the cars of the Persian Shah's. |
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Member
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| Ah, sounds interesting. I believe I have found sth. special here! 
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Expert
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Location: Minneapolis | Sorry Johnny, the book I have, well, HAD, is no where to be seen. I keep lookin! |
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Board Moderator & Exner Expert 10K+
Location: .Norfolk..Mafia.. ,England UK | d500neil - 2009-01-31 7:54 PM
I just happened to be reading a 1956 Auto Age, this morning, and immediately notice that the general side-profile
view of the Shah's car greatly resembles the appearance of the 1956 Studebaker Golden Hawk.
The front-views are probably similar, too.
PIC from Neil..
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Thanks, Clive; the Shah's car definitely has the Adventurer I's grille/bumper on it, but, this 1956 Stude
definite;ly has similar body lines on it, to that car, huh ?
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| Yes. I think Virgil and Raymond Lowey were friends, and both of them worked with/for Ghia in italy. |
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Location: Vancouver, BC | THREE HUNDRED - 2009-02-04 1:52 AM
Yes. I think Virgil and Raymond Lowey were friends, and both of them worked with/for Ghia in italy.
Virgil Exner worked for Raymond Loewy in the 1940's then directly for Studebaker before going to Chrysler in 1949.
Neither worked for Ghia but Ghia was under contract with Chrysler during the 1950's to build their idea cars, almost all of which were designed under Exner. Ghia did do work for other companies, of course. In the late 1950's Ghia built bodies for Dual Motors in the U.S., a design based on an Exner/Chrysler idea car,
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Location: Minneapolis | Did you ever notice that VW's Karmann Ghia is a 4/5 scale model of Chrysler's showcar from the early fifties? Nice rip-off.
I do not know for fact, but from what I gathered, Loewy and Ex were not friends. Loewy, with the ego he had, didnt have any room for friends. There were may famous designs (ie, Studebaker's postwar coupes) that Loewy handily took credit for when it was his staff that did all the grunt work. Typical. I am more than sure that "Sir" Loewy would not mix in the same circles and good ol' Ex. |
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | I have also heard, over the years, that EX got a lot of credit for the FWDLK designs that actually were created by CHRY
stylists and/or Ex's team of stylists; the point being that Mr. X did not really sit down at his drawing board and create
the designs of the mid-late 50's; his team members did, but he got the credit.
Another thing I heard, decades ago, at a WPC national meet in Detroit, from some corporate Honcho who made a
guest appearance, there, was that Ex really only may have personally designed the rear doors in the station wagons,
so that the doors would be, essentially, interchangeable and thereby save the corporation a lot of money.
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Expert
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Location: Minneapolis | That second thing is interesting!
The first thing I have also heard, but I didnt want to go there! Just think of all of the hearts crushed here! Old Ex, a fraud. LOL! Think about it: Five divisions with maybe twenty models and a hundred sub-models, no way in HELL can one guy pen them every year for more than half a decade. All he does is walk around to all of the styling studios and make sure the designs are "his", going in the "right" direction. Throws a couple tantrums and pats a couple backs. Even that sh!t will give you a heart attack. And it did.
Same with Harley Early or Bill Mitchell, they had all of the flunkies do the real designing. Oh, and Irving Snodgrass of F0RD. You remember him and his fabulous generic designs. |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | Now come on guys, let's be fair here. The design chiefs were promoted to their positions because they had the ideas and the taste and the flair that the corporate leaders above them felt would take the company to greater profits. Below the heads of the styling departments were the guys in the trenches who ground out the details of each knob on the dashboard and each convolution of the tail light lens and twist in the grille bar. But the LOOK, the Forward LOOK if you will in our instance came from THE MAN, the Ex man and make no mistake about that. It was his genius that propelled Chrysler design from the stodginess of the early '50s into the jet age and set GMs styling department back on their heals in utter disbelief. |
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Location: Vancouver, BC | StillOutThere - 2009-02-04 5:59 PM
Now come on guys, let's be fair here. The design chiefs were promoted to their positions because they had the ideas and the taste and the flair that the corporate leaders above them felt would take the company to greater profits. Below the heads of the styling departments were the guys in the trenches who ground out the details of each knob on the dashboard and each convolution of the tail light lens and twist in the grille bar. But the LOOK, the Forward LOOK if you will in our instance came from THE MAN, the Ex man and make no mistake about that. It was his genius that propelled Chrysler design from the stodginess of the early '50s into the jet age and set GMs styling department back on their heals in utter disbelief.
You can look at the styling director as the equivalent of an orchestra conductor. He has a group of stylists working under him and it is his job to keep the stylists working as a group all heading in the same direction. Just as an orchestra leader cannot play all the instruments, no styling director can style all the parts on all the cars and body styles.
I had heard Exner's comments about Loewy before and thought his comments were hilarious. I remember when Exner's creations hit the streets and all the rave comments about his styling. And not one word from Exner or any auto writer about the work or input by his assistants and staff. Ex was just as egotistical as Loewy!
I suspect the real reason Exner had bad feelings toward Loewy was the fact Loewy fired Exner in 1946. Exner had been hired by Cole, chief of Studebaker engineering, to complete the styling of the 1947 Studebaker, all while he was under the employ of Loewy and without Loewy's knowledge. Loewy had been given incorrect dimensions for the new car and as a result Studebaker management leaned toward Exner's work. To say that Loewy felt he had been stabbed in the back would be an understatement and that Exner was fired should not come as a surprise. Cole then openly hired Exner as a stylist, but he left in 1949 as the situation in which he found himself was untenable.
Raymond Loewy, Virgil Exner and Harley Earl were the top three American auto stylists of the 20th century, in my opinion, although the way things are going they may well be the top three American stylists - period.
Raymond Loewy took care of Studebaker styling from 1938 through 1955, being responsible for for the 1941 through 1955 models plus the 1956 Hawk line. His studio did the 1932 cycle fender Hupmobile, the 1934 Aerodynamic Hupmobile, Rootes styling from the late 1940's into the late 1950's (the AUDAX body of 1956 looks like a shrunken 1953 Studebaker) and the 1963 Studebaker Avanti. Although the Avanti was styled almost fifty years ago, it is as striking today as it was then.
By the way, the Karmann Ghia was styled by Ghia who used the design of the 1952 Chrysler d'Elegance as a model - with Chrysler's approval. All idea cars built by Ghia for Chrysler were the works of the Chrysler Corporation styling department and not Ghia, as an increasing number of so-called auto enthusiast magazines claim. These days it seems many writers simply copy the works of others and skip the research - regurgitation at its finest.
When GM stylists came upon a yard full of new 1957 Plymouths at the Lynch Road plant in late summer 1956, Harley Earl was in Europe. The stylists returned to the studio at GM and told Bill Mitchell, Earl's assistant, what they saw. After seeing for himself, Mitchell took a group of stylists and began working on a new styling theme influenced by Exner's work. Earl's planned 1958 models and the to-be-restyled 1959 models were all basically the 1957 models bulked up and with more chrome. Mitchell took it upon himself to literally strip pounds of chrome off the 1958 models and pushed his new look models for 1959. Earl was livid when he returned, but GM management sided with Mitchell. None of this was exposed to the public at the time and Earl got the credit for the new models.
Just as we Chrysler afficianados have been discovering the talented crew behind Exner's works over the past decade, so too have the GM fans.
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Location: Minneapolis | GM fans? Huh? What are those? |
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| Me! I am also a huge GM Fan! Here's a few pics from my GM collection.
http://up.picr.de/1816913.jpg
http://up.picr.de/1733905.jpg
http://jeep.cfasp.de/upload/99427.jpg
Interesting reading about the designers. When I look at Studebakers and Chryslers, I know who had the better team or the better visions!
Lowey is not my choice when it comes to car design.
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Member
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| Now I've found sth. that is not too far away from what I've found.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/auto_shows/2003_concorso_d_italia_...
Did those guys make more of these custom built bodys, or ones that are pretty similar to this?
Anyone knows this guy who owns this? Maybe he knows more on this subject?
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Location: Spencerport, New York | O.K. guys, where would the French Facel Vega fit in here? They sure were pretty cars with all Chrysler mechanicals I think. Dick W. |
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Member
Posts: 41
| I think I'm getting closer...
The '54 Chrysler Ghia GS-1 Special looks a lot like the car I mean.
But it has a different front end, and maybe a different front windshield.
I haven'T found too much about the Chrysler GS-1 Special. Some say they made 400 some say probably just a dozen...
Who knows more about this car? Have there been different versions? Different front ends? Later years or just '54?
Thanks alot!
What is a GS-1 worth about? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 907
Location: Magra, Sweden | The link below shows a picture from LIFE Magazine, the Chrysler Special designed by Exner and built by Ghia. Note the Exner insignia in the front. I believe this was the forerunner of the GS1 serie sold by Ghia.
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=1950s+autos+source:life&pr... |
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Location: Under the X in Texas | OKAY, I found something! The '53 Dodge Zeder by Bertone. Here is the text from a web page: One of the numerous experiments of Bertone’s "American adventure" in the 1950’s was the Storm Z-50, an imposing coupé created for Chrysler, which aimed to give the US market a car with Dodge mechanics and bodywork created by the Italian master craftsmen.
The model reflects the Bertone style of the period, with particular attention to the lines and design of the American car, especially with regards to the long streamlined front bonnet, smooth wings and imposing horizontal radiator grille. The Dodge Zeder coupé was fitted with a 250 Hp Dodge engine.
Edited by StillOutThere 2009-02-07 12:35 PM
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Location: Under the X in Texas | That first one leads to a second one. The '56 Chrysler Boano. Here is some text on it: Fiat Chairman Gianni Agnelli was a man who knew exactly what he wanted and how to get it. In the mid '50s, when Agnelli decided he wanted a powerful two-seat coupe, he started with a 1955 Chrysler 300B. The wheelbase was shortened by seven inches, and Agnelli instructed the stylists at Carrozzeria Boano to create something with a classic British look. The result was this one-of-a-kind coupe, which was driven to the Concorso d'Italia from Massachusetts by owner Michael Pomerance. Pomerance notes that having the steel body of his Chrysler Boano welded to the chassis makes for a very solid ride.
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Exner Expert 19,174 posts. Neil passed away 18 Sep 2015. You will be missed, Neil!
Posts: 19146
Location: bishop, ca | Dual headlights, in 1953, was a big deal.
Look how much nicer the front end would appear, with either single lights or with the lights moved up a tad, to the top of
the fenders, and with the vertical accent lines NOT dropping all the way to the bumper.
The grille should probably have been filled with the horizontal bars, or have no bars inside it, at all.
The rest of the car is spectacular.
The Guano looks perfect; strange name, however.
Edited by d500neil 2009-02-07 12:54 PM
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Expert
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Location: Vancouver, BC | d500neil - 2009-02-07 9:53 AM
Dual headlights, in 1953, was a big deal.
Look how much nicer the front end would appear, with either single lights or with the lights moved up a tad, to the top of
the fenders, and with the vertical accent lines NOT dropping all the way to the bumper.
The grille should probably have been filled with the horizontal bars, or have no bars inside it, at all.
The rest of the car is spectacular.
The Guano looks perfect; strange name, however.
The car actually has single headlamps - the top set. The next ones down are fog lamps. For some small photos of the car as originally built -
http://www.bertone.it/User/en/scheda_50_dodge_en.htm
I question the statement that it was made for Chrysler as this car has never appeared in any information published by Chrysler. I also have Floyd Clymer's auto yearbooks from that era and although the Chrysler Special, Chrysler K-310, the Chrysler parade phaetons and other idea cars are illustrated, this car is not. I suspect the car was actually built for one of Chrysler Corporation's "Three Musketeers" engineering group, James Zeder.
The second car is called the Boano.
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Member
Posts: 41
| Wow, that Dodge Zeder is unbelieveable! Very cool!
I will probably get more information on the car I have found the next days. I'm very excited! |
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Location: NY & VT | Exner was, as mentioned, was reponsible for setting the overall look and direction of styling. He dictated the overall proportions - length, width, height ratios and the like - and the dart shaped body, the general stying concept. So in fairness the "look" of the cars was set by him, starting with a last minute crash program to create 1955s "Million Dollar Look" and "New Look of Motion" the former which derived inspriation from the 1952/55 Chrysler Parade Phaeton. By '57 he was able to exert total influence which resulted in the penultimate, much lower, longer Forward Look that was inspired by the Italian Cisitalia and Alfa BAT (as verified by Virgil Jr), that we love so much now! People like Murray Baldwin (Dodge), Henry King, Richard Baird (DeSoto), James Higgins(wagons) and Henry Keene(ornamentation) under Ex's direction were responsible for Divisional Stying studios, and it was at that level that each make's particular look was created, what differentiated a FireFlite from a NY'er, given a shared body. Below that were color and ornamentation specialists, dash and interior designers, etc. Credit for styling has to be shared by many, but Ex was truly at the helm. |
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'55 Chrysler European Body Question
